General consensus on mentors

Hi all,
Been playing since beta but just now got around to leveling my tanking job to 60 -- I have always loved helping new players and have done so since long before the mentor program began, having created 'helping new players' LS and such on a couple of servers that were soon filled to capacity. My question is, now that I'm getting close to be able to be a mentor, is it really worth it? Or are mentors really as bad as they seem or as they are portrayed on the forums? I've personally only met a handful of people with that little crown who I'd consider 'true' mentors (patient, kind, willing to listen and teach). Any thoughts?

And for a newb question...what is the difference between the crown, the crown with the little sword, and such? Different requirements? I know some are DoL/DoH mentors or just PvE mentors, but never saw any different requirements, etc. and wondered since the mentor system is new (to me, a returning player). ^_^v

*Edit: I have the comms, dungeons, and other 2 jobs done already, just now finishing up DRK after coming back after a few months off*

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Hi all,
Been playing since beta but just now got around to leveling my tanking job to 60 -- I

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Yes it is you can be one of those mentors that actually wanna help, you dont have to live in the nn, you can help people in your fc, people in link shells. Its very worth it and with your game time experience you sound like youd be a great mentor.

The problem with the Mentor System is that not only is there no obligation to actually guide new or untrained players, there isn't really any possible metric by which the game could ever potentially guage or grade a Mentor on doing that.

It's a label. Some people are going to be helpful, some aren't.

My experience thus far is that a lot of mentors start out their careers very willing and helpful. Eventually, being told "It's my sub I play how I want" turns even the best into jaded jerks.

My alt is a trades mentor who lives in NN. My main is PvE mentor who doesn't live in NN. So in that matter, I guess it's your personal choice.

Is it worth it being a mentor? I like being a mentor. But since you're almost there, try and see. There will always be bad mentors who are unwilling to help and leave instances at the sight of sproutlings watching cutscenes. However there are some who are willing to help. It'll be nice to have another helpful mentor out there.

You aren't forced to wear that crown tag, it's literally a search setting like /busy where it can be turned on and off at will. So even if you decide some days that you aren't up for helping, you can turn it off. Only queueing for the Mentor roulette will force it back on. Which makes it all the more sad because the unhelpful mentors arent just "playing how they want", but they're wearing the crown "because it's cool".

Also, the regular crown is just general mentor, the sword is pve, and the flag is pvp. You choose which one you want at your leisure, but likely to help specify if you're only familiar or specialize with one or the other, if not both.

For me, I really enjoy doing Mentor roulette because you don't know where is it going to throw you this time. And it feels good to help new players.

You don't really have to give advice all the time or tell the party what to do. Some groups can handle themselves just fine. It is when you notice something that is considered wrong (Example: tank wearing DEX gear instead of VIT) or about to start a boss fight that can cause a wipe if not done right.

Mentors with bad reputations are mostly those who are farming the mentor titles or the mount. They speed run through everything and any party mistakes or wipes cause them to lose their temper.

If you really want to be a mentor, go for it :)

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

My experience thus far is that a lot of mentors start out their careers very willing and helpful. Eventually, being told "It's my sub I play how I want" turns even the best into jaded jerks.

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I think on top of that, when a mentor starts out wanting to help and they run into their 50th "No, it's fine. This is just an alt. I know this dungeon like the back of my hand." they kinda just...stop trying. I had that happen a lot when I was leveling my first tank, I'd see sprouts, see the new to the dungeon message and would offer to go slow and explain things and they either remain silent or just say "Nah, it's just an alt."

Usually the mentors I've come across in duty finder are rude and impatient. I had 1 tank a while ago in the vault with a mentor status and no right side tanking accessories. As a matter of fact they were all less than ilvl 50 if i remember correctly and didn't know how to tank and hold aggro for the life of him. I wish there was a way to report these 'special snowflakes' that just want the crown just to have it.

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Originally Posted by Woggers

Usually the mentors I've come across in duty finder are rude and impatient. I had 1 tank a while ago in the vault with a mentor status and no right side tanking accessories. As a matter of fact they were all less than ilvl 50 if i remember correctly and didn't know how to tank and hold aggro for the life of him. I wish there was a way to report these 'special snowflakes' that just want the crown just to have it.

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That sounds like they payed to have their character leveled..

I still think it's a good idea to change the mentor icon to something less "cool" than a gold crown. Someone suggested a watering can once and I think that would be a perfect complement to the newbie sprout.

I haven't worn my crown since I got it, mainly because I never needed it to mentor other players and be helpful besides.

I've also noticed a sort of backlash against mentors by regular players (because of the actions of a few bad ones), so I don't wear it as a means of keeping people receptive to any words I might offer. If I'm legitimately trying to help and being patient and kind, I don't need or want to be met with venom purely for being a mentor. Further still, I understand that - in some very rare cases - people need to try and fail in order to REALLY learn what they need to learn. So a certain degree of silent support is necessary.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

That sounds like they payed to have their character leveled..

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That could be, or a bot... but if he had the mentor status he'd have had to pay someone to run Ifrit (or something equally easy) 1000 times to get Dungeon Master and then also get at least 300 comms doing it -- I don't wanna think what someone would charge for that O.O // maybe just someone who was trolling and/or just lazy-bad.

I've kept my mentor status on since getting it.

I think it's a good opportunity to go against the grain and be a helpful person despite the popular opinion on mentors. I try not to say too much unless someone says it's their first time doing a dungeon or someone is constantly failing a mechanic. I will admit sometimes I just plain remain silent and see if someone can pick up mechanics as they go. Sometimes it's the best way people learn.

I've also had parties where people ask me if they're doing okay and ask about tips. I definitely understand this personally and try to give some solid tips and let them know they're doing good, even if they die, especially if they're trying to improve.

Bottom line is as a mentor I try not to nitpick over certain things or act like I'm above someone. Just because I'm a mentor doesn't mean I've mastered every single mechanic. You don't need a crown over your head to do the job either. What matters above all is that you're willing and able.

Since they implemented the change to the Novice Network, where mentors can turn their status off, their have been less "bad" mentors. Most of the mentors in the network on my server are great. And a lot of the sprouts feel bad when they have to leave. The biggest gripe i have actully comes from some sprouts. If we tell you how to do something after you asked, why don't you listen. We have so many players say, "can you boot me, i don't want to be in here, or this is an alt" etc. We tell them and they just whine boot me. Like really.

I'm one of the people who initially got the mentor crown just because I thought it looked cool and I met the requirements. Oops. However, since I've put it on, I have tried to be more helpful to others. Before turning on the mentor status, I basically never said anything in a dungeon or trial, no matter how poorly others were doing or if it was obvious they were struggling. Now if I'm doing mentor roulettes, I do try to give helpful advice, and I always try to be extremely polite about it, never accusing anyone of playing poorly or anything, and always wording my advice gently (i. e., when healing a tank 15+ item levels below where he should be: "I noticed your gear is a few levels low, have you checked out the vendors near aetherytes around the map?" and such).

But overwhelmingly my experience as a mentor has been negative, and I don't think that's largely because of me. I know unsolicited advice can seem condescending, no matter how nicely it's worded, but 95% of the time, even my completely innocuous comments are met with terrible attitudes from new/sprout players. Something as simple as "Playing with topaz carbuncle out in a dungeon can make it harder on our tank to hold the aggro; would you mind changing to emerald, just for right now?" literally netted me a "I don't f*cking care what you think" once.

There's honestly no way for mentors to win. If they stay silent throughout a run where people are having problems, they get treated like crap for "not being helpful" and just "farming for achievements." If they speak up, they get treated like crap for "offering unneeded advice." What can you even do?

Honestly the biggest issue with the mentor program is they set the requirements a tad low. 300 commendations is nothing one couldn't farm guildhests for as either a tank or healer, and leveling 1 class for each role in the trinity is even easier than before with Palace of the Dead. The only real hurdle is the 1,000 dungeon/trial runs, and frankly anyone that actually plays had no trouble hitting that number.

The stigma attached to the crown is simply for every levelheaded mentor you meet, you're going to meet plenty more who have an attitude that is way out of sync with the level of aptitude they display.

All that being said, it's good to want to help other people.

Maybe we shouls set the requirements to 3000, XD, I'd still qualify. When I got that bird it felt amazing, lol.

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

There's honestly no way for mentors to win. If they stay silent throughout a run where people are having problems, they get treated like crap for "not being helpful" and just "farming for achievements." If they speak up, they get treated like crap for "offering unneeded advice." What can you even do?

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My feelings are basically this. I once got flak for having a bad attitude after I'd explained the whole of Garuda EX, from start to finish, from memory, which was more than the other mentor in the party could do. I'm very near just dropping being a mentor entirely because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. There aren't enough smileys in the world to make unsolicited advice come across as helpful, and 9 times out of 10 you're going to get ignored anyway, with that last 1 in 10 being told to stick your head in a blender. I barely ever feel appreciated as a mentor, and I doubt that's ever going to change.

I've come across very few mentors who actually gave helped out others who weren't familiar with their Class or dungeon/primal.

Completely useless, there should be a rating system in place and have it displayed publicly in the party. Maybe this would weed out the people who don't use the mentor system for good reason.

Mentoring will always be what you make of it. At the very least, all it does it tell you who has done the requirements to unlock it.

For me I mostly didn't say much other than when I noticed big mistakes, or if I was asked questions.

For stuff like Ex primals, I refused to explain the entire fight start to finish, instead I encouraged people to research for themselves before trying (as this is what I feel should be normal behavior for going into Ex and higher fights). If people weren't listening or refused to watch a vid, I'd usually stay but vote abandon after a few wipes. Eventually, if it was really hopeless, I'd leave or go offline.

I got my mentor crown, had it on for a day to show my FC mates that I was the first one of us to qualify, and then turned it off permanently because I didn't want to be one of Those People. The vast majority of mentors I've seen have been useless or just plain bad. On several occasions I've had to correct the incorrect information they give. I'm happy to share what I know and give some tips if people ask nicely but most of the time people just ignore the advice because "it doesn't matter".

I think there needs to be more oversight to the system then there has been, but I have no clue how that would best be approached.

The crown doesn't really mean anything at this point imo, it's just a decoration by people's names.

The idea of some kind of grading system for mentors has been suggested several times. I'd really like it if it would be coupled with the possibility of losing the crown and access to all the rewards related to it (=titles, mount, whatever). It's extremely improbable that such a thing would be added to this game though, in this game everyone has to be a winner.

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Originally Posted by Squigley

The idea of some kind of grading system for mentors has been suggested several times. I'd really like it if it would be coupled with the possibility of losing the crown and access to all the rewards related to it (=titles, mount, whatever). It's extremely improbable that such a thing would be added to this game though, in this game everyone has to be a winner.

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Rather than "everyone has to be a winner," I think this is a case of no one would bother if a rating system existed. Who would actually want to be a mentor with a system like this in place? Even the best mentors could end up losing their status over troll ratings from people who get salty about being given good advice. A mentor who stays quiet (to avoid down-votes from people who don't like being given advice) could end up being down-rated for not offering advice!

And honestly, how would a grade from mentees--a group which includes many people who flat out don't know how to play this game--be validated? The people most likely to down-vote a mentor are liable to be the people who have the least clue and need the most help...

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Originally Posted by sarehptar

troll ratings

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That's a very good point, I don't think anyone has been able to think of a good way to handle those.

As for everyone winning, it was a bit badly worded perhaps. It's almost 4am here and I've had a bad day. The point I was trying to make was that has anyone ever lost anything in this game? As in something taken away from them. If GM's would revoke crowns + stuff based on reports, I'd be a happy potato. I haven't seen that happening even though I remember reading about such a possibility.

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Originally Posted by Squigley

That's a very good point, I don't think anyone has been able to think of a good way to handle those.

As for everyone winning, it was a bit badly worded perhaps. It's almost 4am here and I've had a bad day. The point I was trying to make was that has anyone ever lost anything in this game? As in something taken away from them. If GM's would revoke crowns + stuff based on reports, I'd be a happy potato. I haven't seen that happening even though I remember reading about such a possibility.

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Sorry, didn't mean to come across as argumentative. I definitely do think it's fair to have your crown revoked if you do something worth being reported for. If a GM reviews a case and determined someone was harassing or cheating or somehow abusing other players, then sure, I'd also support this. Such a person wouldn't deserve to be labelled a mentor at all.

But having my mentor privileges revoked just because people don't like being told they're wearing inappropriate gear for their job or that they really should level that side class for provoke... Eff that. I absolutely would not want my player status to be tied to a grading system controlled by people who don't even read tooltips... :/

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

That sounds like they payed to have their character leveled..

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Oh, you would be amazed by the amount of people that are genuinely that bad. I once had a Scholar in Ravana still wearing the Friendship Circuit and Brand New Ring. And I know he wasn't a bot because he had the audacity to whine about the DPS being low. -_-

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

I haven't worn my crown since I got it, mainly because I never needed it to mentor other players and be helpful besides.

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Indeed I think that for many long time players who help others because they enjoy helping and it's the right thing to do, have an attitude towards the mentor title and crown that can be summed up with this line stolen from Blazing Saddles...

Badges? We don't need not stinking badges!

Tbh I was really excited for the mentor program when it first came out. I made a rush to level my warrior and summoner so I could get the status. I never did the mentor roulette, I just liked that people knew I was there to help. What ended up happening was that I was berated for trying to tell people mechanics on primals after wiping multiple times, and there were so many other mentors I felt like I didn't matter anymore. I removed it just a couple of days ago on my own. I got increasingly frustrated having to answer simple questions that can be answered via a quick Google search (i.e. Where does X quest start? Can I get [specific type of gear] from [specific raid]?). It's just my personality type I suppose. Mentors get a bad rep according to forums anyway, because there are many out there who believe mentors are there just for the cool stuff. It's not worth it for me anymore.

I wear my crown as hopefully an inventation for questions in dungeons and open world. While in dungeons, I'm openly conversational, and will make suggestions in a friendly manner without pressing on the topic if I see someone struggling or if we're wiping on something.

I forget which dungeon, but I was healing on some duty with a sprout or two, and had made helpful suggestions the whole way and saw them improve as we went, but absolutely no one had said a word in chat the entire dungeon. Personally the improvement was just fine with me; that's what I love about helping others most, not the thank yous. But if you're looking for thanks (which admittedly shouldnt be that hard for people to give) you may find yourself disappointed at times.

The question is whether it's going to be worth it FOR YOU.

I do it because I really do just want to help. I've left mentor duties on one role and requeued for that specific duty as a tank or healer just to help. I'm one of the most patient people you'll find. I'm also not going to push my advice or playstyle on others; I'll offer advice if it's asked for or if there's something actively hurting the party or their progress. I try to be an example of a good mentor by my standards.

You have to decide for yourself if you're going to do it, and what kind of mentor you're going to be.

@OP, you can just try it and if you like it, if you find what you are looking for in it, so keep it.

Personnally, i like to help too when i can (and when i'm in mood for that lol like everyone) and i do it with pleasure. When i have seen they were adding the mentor system i was happy about it, so i tried it. But i realized i didn't need this "tag" for helping people, or i won't help more or in a better way thanks to it....so i just erased it.

Imo the mentor system shouldn't gives special rewards or something, if you like to help, you will do it without a gift cause it's your true nature and i find that this mentor system is just corrupted by those people who just want the gifts without taking their "mentor" role seriously.

I met several mentors who didn't know how to play their own job or who were giving bad advices but they had this crown so they were like "i'm a mentor so everything i say is better than what you can say".....interesting.

So ya, try it and you will be able to make your own choice :)

Had the crown since Day 1 and I choose to remain in the NN. When it comes to the system, I have mixed feelings about - and mixed feelings about the mentors I have seen on my own server.
--Pros: There are actually decent mentors who know what they are doing on my server, and do offer help wherever it's needed. Sprouts tend to get several replies in response to their questions, so at least none of them are left hanging.
--Cons: I dislike how some players can skirt on by with their status, when in actuality, they only do it for the titles, tomes and rewards. All the while, they offer no actual help to new players, get impatient with wipes/slowness of runs, play their jobs horribly, or worst blame others for faults and rage quit.

(I myself haven't ran into any ridicule as a mentor. I quietly help with brief tips here and there, doing my best to offer advice.)

If you seek to help new players and that's all you want to do, then strive to be that mentor :D

I finally got the crown but I was really unsure if I even want to become one. I just saw too many bad mentors and I kinda feel like, thanks to them, wearing the crown will have people judging you way harder than without. I am also still not alright with getting all parts of mentor unlocked..I mean I got the crafter crown and yet somehow I could still be a battle mentor or a PVP mentor. It would be better to have it restricted to the part which you used to unlock it..and I am kinda sad that there is a achievement behind it. :/

I did run some mentor roulettes and I always feel kinda bad when I have no clue about a fight. You can land in a lot of dungeons and I dont remember everyone of them and if you have a new player bonus, it just feels like its the mentors job to explain it X_X..At least even before becoming one I already tried to be nice to people and explain fights to them but wearing the crown really makes this sometimes a little stressful.

Just dont be like some of the pvp mentors who get vote dismissed from frontline missions b/c they spend 15 straight minutes telling everyone how terrible they are, on Adamantoise there are some Twin Adder Mentors who feel that is productive.

Hm... to be honest for as many peoplebwho whine about mentors I only had good experiences. My first run with mentor was in Sastasha (not first dunge run tho) She asked me if I as a CNJ I would be cool with speed run (first and last time it happened tho). Had several quiet runs. Then one of them randomly approached me to hand me 50 lvl weapon just when I got to that level because he wanted to give back. One of the kindest gestures I have had. My last run I witnessed mentor trying to tell my friend that he shouldn't use cure 3 on one 'victim' to get rebuffed brutally. Then she mentioned about cleric stance healing ... Honestly I usually always listen to advice but I find that most don't want to give it but the last experience made me understand why I have so many quiet runs >.>

Tried it out and so far not bad at all. Had a few sprouts actually ask me questions out in the world or standing around at Quarrymill. Seems that sometimes even in easy things like PotD people expect me to go first and/or figure out where to go more often now (even when not on DRK, which they often do if I'm on a tanking job). However, the one thing I totally hate about mentor is the Novice Network chat - and not because of the novices. The mentors in there can be totally useless and/or abusive, vulgar, irritating. The other day a mentor kicked another mentor for advertising their FC in NN chat, then a mentor kicked the mentor that kicked them, and so on ad infinitum. You'd think they'd realize each and every NN kick is looked at by the GMs (if we are to believe what SE states about kicking). Really, NN chat is the worst and I wish it was moderated even just a tiny bit :/ Other than that, just helping like I always do, just now people know they can ask me stuff more ^_^v

**I also just put on the PvE mentor -- I wonder why some people use the whole crown if they aren't able to mentor PvP or crafting O.O **

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

**I also just put on the PvE mentor -- I wonder why some people use the whole crown if they aren't able to mentor PvP or crafting O.O **

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For looks?

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

**I also just put on the PvE mentor -- I wonder why some people use the whole crown if they aren't able to mentor PvP or crafting O.O **

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If it's in a duty, it's also possible they queued for mentor roulette. After all, that one does not care if you're a pve, pvp or crafting mentor. it slaps that full crown on you and switches it back to whatever you had on before that..