This is what I have been wondering about.
The discussion about the conjurer and the thaumaturg is quite lively and to be honest I am rather upset because the conjurer loses his character as elemental spiritual.
I know, the patch is not out yet and I will see what it will be like.
But in case the conjurer stays like planned, what will happen to the Gridanian story quest?
I am afraid that the whole scenario will break down in its logic because Gridania is not the centre of white mages but of mages that stand in communication with the animus, hence all the elemental spirits.
They are the people that are connected with nature in all its aspects and all its elements (already again enhanced by the new articles on the lodestone about Kan-E-Senna).
Now if the conjurer changes and loses his character as nature mage or nature spiritual the Gridanian story and city concept will not really make sense anymore because everything is connected to these elemental spirituals.
Now that the elements might be splittet it doesn't make a lot sense to see the druid as elemental spiritual mage anymore.
I know, I know, it's not patch time yet. I don't mean to cause a drama thread but I'm a bit afraid that I might not only lose my favourite mage but also my favourite city concept and my scenario. :(
(Please be gentle, cease-fire, okay?)
What will happen to the Gridanian story quest?
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11-23-2011, 04:24 AMLoggosWhat will happen to the Gridanian story quest?
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11-23-2011, 04:30 AMRau
No one knows.
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11-23-2011, 04:34 AMLoggos
I would really like to ask Yoshida about this. :/
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11-23-2011, 04:35 AMKatella_Avenlea
I'm wondering about this also, mostly because I love the premise of Gridania.
I'm thinking they may just redefine things a little bit and retain Conjurers as being able to commune with the most natural of elements.. Lets face it, Water, Wind, and Earth (for our purposes, unless you are a biochemist) is as natural as you get.
The other "elements" are sort of "created" in a way. Fire starts only when certain prerequisites are fulfilled (oxygen, flammable substance, spark), Lightning occurs only when certain weather conditions are present, Ice only occurs when the temperature gets cold enough to transform water. Still Elements maybe, but are brought to be through a manipulation, rather than using a pure elemental form. -
11-23-2011, 04:49 AMLoggos
In my opinion these manipuations are all natural and happen in nature, like ice freezing in winter, lightnings in thunderstorms and fires bursting when lightnings strike into wood.
I think all this is nature and it is not unnatural for a nature mage to control it. That's just my opinion but since those three are still part of the elemental system I'd consider it a bit weird if druids are in touch with elements but somehow are not because they cannot influence all elements that influence the rest of the FFXIV world.
Like I said, just my personal view and it's theoretical regarding the new concepts.
Anyways, I'd be really sad if Gridania is not really Gridania anymore so I really wonder what will happen to it. :x -
11-23-2011, 04:59 AMPowercow
Conjurers don't need to invoke the destructive power of an element to be able to hear from it. In the story, conjurers are all about communicating with the elements, not necessarily using them to blow things up.
Also, it's quite possible that Jobs will not necessarily be tied to the same cities as their base classes, and in many cases it would actually make more sense if they were not. -
11-23-2011, 05:08 AMSkiesWell, just always bear to mind that the world is going to end and start all over again when 2.0 comes about. Who's to say that the laws of the world won't change with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loggos
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11-23-2011, 05:20 AMLoggos
I agree with you about the jobs. It is probably better if jobs are not tied to cities but even so conjurers are changed in ther basic concept anyways.
For the context of the story I'd consider it a bit strange if they were mages that could hear the animus but not use its powers.
To me it would rather be like "they are healers and additionally can hear the spirits" but "they are mages focused on a balance with nature".
They were elemental mages first and are healers now (Yoshida stated that conjurers are the typical healer class from now on). In my opinion this doesn't match with being an animus prophet or something because they are in touch with all of the sources of nature and not just some of them. It's like a giving and taking - they hear the animus and may use its powers (which is not necessarily blowing up everything - they can use it to fight but use it for the sake of balance in the first place and not aggression).
Sorry, I guess I'm going to far again but I really love FFXIV for the Gridanian story part. It was what kept me playing. :x -
11-23-2011, 05:23 AMLoggos
Skies was faster than me.
This...would make me sad. Taking the whole story away or changing it drastically would be like playing a new game.
I like FFXIV a lot for the story and hoped that this were the basic line to stay and that improvements were made in the technical areas. But to change everything would be like throwing the current FFXIV away and making a new one.
I hope this will not happen with 2.0. :( -
11-23-2011, 06:22 AMSkies
Well, no, not a definite trashcan for the story, but we're going into a post-cataclysmic setting. That means they're likely going to get a fair bit more of writing liberties to go with the system changes. Still, I'm not that much into the Gridanian history, I mean- I started playing recently and started in Ul'Dah, so I don't know much about Conjurers.
However, guys who commune with the spirits of the land really have a more healer feel than blaster feel. Just think of it this way: Instead of using their elemental magic for direct attack, they use it as support. -
11-23-2011, 06:48 AM3Jane
Looking at the latest Grand Company update from Kan-E-Senna, it seems the relationship with the Elementals is seen differently. With the coming alterations, I'm not sure if this is just a cheap way of fitting things together or not.
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11-23-2011, 09:03 AMXaimera
Well i just thought about it and your right... considering CONJ is losing all the elemental spells and the storyline talked so much of the elementals and CONJ i wonder what they will do... and now with the Company update it seems they are really just changing what we thought of everything to work together ><. It seems we didn't know all of the information >.> right SE????? lol
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11-23-2011, 09:55 AMFelis
Wasn't the Gridania story quest about the echo, Yda and her Lalafell, a curse and a kid burning down a tree?
There wasn't much about Conjurers -
11-23-2011, 10:00 AMDeadRiser
I think after all this umbral stuff, they are completely getting rid of CNJ, THM, GLA, ect... and replacing with the actual classes. Come 2.0, it will be a completely different game. I don't care if he said he wasn't doing that, it sure does seem like it.
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11-23-2011, 10:31 AMSephrick
I wonder what the French think of all of this considering their version of Conjurer is literally called Elementalist.
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11-23-2011, 11:07 AMBaxter
It says commune elements it never said wields destructive power of all elements. We will likely see reemergence of missing 'attack' elements in form of buffs, and healing. What is everyone fussing about?
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11-23-2011, 11:31 AMFiron
What kills me about this community is people keep blinding thinking, that since cnj's believe in ele's they must have the ele nukes to. all magic uses the power of the elemental so how are they out of tune?
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11-23-2011, 12:13 PMXaimeraur right! how cld i forget i havent played smn on ffxi for a long time so i completely forgot lol!!! ur right there can always be water attacks, wind attacks and a bunch of differently ele cures and helpful spells! ^^ how cld i forget, i rly did forget how ffxi used some smn cures XD. WHM is gonna be awesome with conj! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Baxter
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11-23-2011, 12:48 PMMaea
I wonder if, given the possible storyline changes and fairly likely design changes to each of the three cities, the dev team would consider allowing us to change nations after 2.0. I know it has way more gameplay implications than just changing one's appearance, so it wouldn't be dealt with quite in the same way, but I for one think it would be a nice option to have. Unfortunately I kind of remember them saying at one point that nation changes wouldn't be implemented, but with all the other drastic changes they've made to early design decisions like that, I wouldn't be surprised if they've changed their stance on things. It would allow people who don't like the direction lore is going in (or don't like the way the new version of the city feels or is laid out) to have a chance to react to the changes put in place. Thoughts?
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11-23-2011, 01:12 PMMalistaire
I was also wondering how they would tether the new abilities/jobs into the current story. Particularly for players who start after 1.20/1.21. I don't see SE rewriting the entire city stories prior to 2.0 launching, but I'm sure they will have a lore tie in with the new abilities for all classes. There are going to be job quests for the abilities as well.
I'm curious about thaumaturge since they lose all light/dark magic and gain elemental magic. This goes against the entire Ul'dah story as well. -
11-23-2011, 02:12 PMAirgetWell to be honest, just because they know of said elements it doesn't mean they have to use them. As Conjurer's they should understand the dangers of using Fire/Ice/Thunder rmagic since Water/Wind/Earth aren't as destrucive, while sure you could argue that a tornado can destroy, a flood can destroy and so can earthquakes, it takes a lot of force to create that level of destruction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaimera
Fire is a destructive force that even a small spark can escalate into a destructive force. For thunder, in terms of simplicity, even the weakest of bolts can put quite a shock to the system irl terms lol. As for Ice even the weakest of cold ice can cause your body to go numb, slightly increase it's strength and you could end up with frostbite.
In terms of the story and burning down a tree, I believe he used a torch to do it, not magic. But if he did use magic then it could be said that while Conjurer's know those elements they choose not to dive into using such destructive force against their enemies because of the potential scars it can leave on nature.
But ya, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense as to why they are doing the changes they are doing. The game should have started with CON/THM being ying/yang to one another, one of destruction and one of understanding of nature. I think once things settle in people will realize that the actually lores don't need to actually change since they still follow their philosophies. -
11-23-2011, 03:43 PMBaxterMan, that would be nice. I really want to just redo the main storyline again anyway since I pretty much forgot a lot of what transpired. I'm fearing they will not allow it because people would be able to get the exp/gil reward again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maea
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11-23-2011, 05:45 PMMaeaI would imagine that after whatever cataclysmic event reshapes the world, they'll probably need to go back and make alterations to the storyline quests anyway. If they do choose to implement allegiance changes they'd probably have to add on some sort of penalty (like the gil charge in FFXI, but of course adjusted for XIV's economy) so that people don't take it too lightly. The only thing I'm not sure how they'd handle is the shared quest line after a certain point, and the fact that starting back at the beginning for each nation would present continuity/timeline issues. Maybe we could experience the first few quests using the Echo and then the later, shared ones would count as already completed if we did them under another nation? Those are the ones with the significant gil/EXP rewards anyway, so it would solve any issues of double rewards. Given the problems it presents I can see why they'd shy away from wanting to implement allegiance changes, but I know a lot of players would appreciate the choice! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter
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11-23-2011, 06:38 PMviion
I think it would be interesting to hear what will happen to the storyline, and how will people in future precieve it. It has been touched on slightly that some will change and we may even be put back a few quests but still be interesting to know what occurs during the lore.
Doubtful we will find detailed info on that until at least few week before v2. -
11-23-2011, 10:35 PMChezenBecause being a conjurer is all about guardianship, or protecting. Often to protect something, you have to go offensive as well as defensive. But while offensive attacks are needed, it's still not about "nuking". Using such a blast would only be done if the situation needed it, I think. This fits me perfectly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon
I think it would have been perfectly ok with both conjurer and black mage having all types of elemental attacks, but the black mage ones could have been more destructive. I think that would have fit the THM lore, without breaking the conjurer one. -
11-24-2011, 12:48 AMLoggosThis is exactly what I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chezen
I agree that conjurers are not the type to nuke but that doesn't mean that they can't use those forces.
I always thought BLM are the occult type, using very destructive shadow or darkness spells with a lot of drastic fire power (nuke), while WTHM have light magic, support etc.
I saw the elementalist as a seperate class, dealing less damage per spell but having more of them (the six elements, "lighter" in force as they are weaker, faster to cast, less mp but well...weaker) and the advantage of playing with elemental weaknesses of foes.
Since it seems this isn't the case in the FF series (this is my first FF so I dunno) I would still have thought that the thaumaturg with his aggressive spells is given more strong skills as blm (nuke but maybe non-elemental or shadow type) and strong debuffs while the conjurer keeps his elements to defend himself and nature but additionally gets more healing and support spells as white mage.
Or what Chezen said with both having all elements but the one is the nuke and battle type while the other is the guardian (and like she said, also guardians need to draw a sword sometimes).
If they are changing the whole content of the game I'm really disappointed. Of course technical improvements were and are necessary but the story line itself was really nice imo and was what counted for me.
If the story changed I wouldn't play FFXIV but probably "FFXV" because it would be an entirely new game. (Like the old story of FFXIV never existed or were just some filler for beta phase).
Hopefully I'm wrong.
...Oh and...did anyone notice? The devs need to change the intro too because in there is a lalafell conjurer girl who casts fire and ice against this huge plant monster....