Mantra is such a weird utility tool...

It's 7yalms, which means it only works if characters are stacked.

It can't be used on a target, so you can't place it on a tank for tank busters.

It lasts 15 seconds, which is pretty short when you consider the length of most utility.

And it's on a 2 minute Cooldown, which is ridiculously long when you consider my h better stuff like Hypercharge is less than that.

What exactly is the point of mantra? It's range, CD, and duration is all so limited you can barely plan around it unless you use it as a prepull buff or before a bosses ultimate.

It feels like a rather forgotten tool to me.

It's really good at helping healers get the group up to full during AoEs that are in quick succession. (So, the group gets hit, the healers heal up quick, and then the group gets hit again.) Mantra isn't always make or break, but it is definitely VERY helpful at helping the healers be more efficient with their MP and spells. It's very commonly used in raiding, if it is available to the group.

It's on MNK, so I assume it's like that for balance (like how hallowed ground is far better than anything WAR has). As for its usability, it's good for times when the party is taking lots of damage over a period of time (nidhoggs ahk morn as an example)

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

It's really good at helping healers get the group up to full during AoEs that are in quick succession. (So, the group gets hit, the healers heal up quick, and then the group gets hit again.) Mantra isn't always make or break, but it is definitely VERY helpful at helping the healers be more efficient with their MP and spells. It's very commonly used in raiding, if it is available to the group.

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That's just it. How often are there aoes that strong, back to back, that require you to stack?
I can think of Nidhogg Ahk Morn, but even stuff like Mega Holy from Alexander has everyone spread out to where a 7y radius spell wouldn't reach anyone but yourself and the melee next to you.

That's almost like if Battle Litany was 7y instead of 15y. It would just be weird.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

It's 7yalms, which means it only works if characters are stacked.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

That's just it. How often are there aoes that strong, back to back, that require you to stack?

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Unless specific mechanics call for everyone to be way apart from each other, everyone should be close enough for you to hit them at 7y anyway.

Other AoEs people miss out on if they're out in left field:
Celestial Opposition - 10y
Deployment Tactics - 10y
Sacred Soil - 8y
Collective Unconscious - 6y
Asylum - 6y
Cure III - 6y

Incidentally, the set of use cases for these abilities has a large intersection with the set of use cases for Mantra (Mantra only actually affects one and a half of those, but still it would be used in the same situations as most of those).

Mostly used during endgame when players are under geared or don't have VIT melded. Mantra will help healers top the party with less frustration.
It is sometimes used to increase the potency of shields on players. Also, very useful when solo healing.

You won't see players using mantra regularly because it is not needed outside of savage or extreme (Still helps though).

Far from forgotten. On Monk anyway. As a cross skill on other jobs without the trait boost, it kind of stinks.

Mantra traited is imo valuable and underrated. It's a utility that should be coordinated with the healers for planned usage at healing intensive parts of a fight. It can also be used in an emergency like one of the healers dying and raid damage imminent. The radius is fine because there's always going to be portions of a fight where the group is stacked or fanned out closely behind the boss. Mantra can also be used pre pull for a higher deployment tactic adlo.

Mantra is a recovery tool. It's main use is to help healers during intense portions of combat, and can often be used equally as effectively to recover from a screw up/misstep, such as a healer dying, messing up their MP management, or recovering to a stable position from a near raid wipe. Incidentally, I thought it was gonna be you. :P

One of the bosses in weeping city does a huge attack that happens to be ready when mantra is ready. I thought that was neat.

I suppose it has it's uses.
It just seems so weak compared to what other melee can offer. I mean, since it's something directly aimed towards helping healers, maybe it could have a mp restoration effect too?
Or even a light mitigation effect.

It just feels like extremely situational utility like this is the reason Monk is so currently looked down on.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

It just feels like extremely situational utility like this is the reason Monk is so currently looked down on.

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Yet exactly this utility, as well as DK's mitigation effect, made MNK effectively mandatory for the entirety of the 2.X series, even when there were 3 melee. There's nothing wrong with different jobs having different opportunities to shine. Honestly, I'd say such a state should actually be considered requisite in order for the game to be fun, rather than simply stagnate.

Honestly, I really don't understand why people be bashing defensive cd's like Mantra lately. A big part of why MCH is one of my mains is because of Dis/RM. I love the fact that I can assist in ways other than just with WF burst + Hyper charge. I'd actually like for defensive assist cd's to become more prominent and useful!

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Honestly, I really don't understand why people be bashing defensive cd's like Mantra lately. A big part of why MCH is one of my mains is because of Dis/RM. I love the fact that I can assist in ways other than just with WF burst + Hyper charge. I'd actually like for defensive assist cd's to become more prominent and useful!

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I do too!
But the way this game plays, it comes off as useless. Of course, when raids deal a lot more damage it'll be better, but right now it's just "more damage more damage!".

A great Monk utility skill would be a some kind of "Inspire" ability which would be a small AOE TP restore.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I do too!
But the way this game plays, it comes off as useless. Of course, when raids deal a lot more damage it'll be better, but right now it's just "more damage more damage!".

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that reminds me of another thread where someone said freeze aoe on blm is useless... people just have to realize that several skills are just useful in individual situations like freeze in pvp or mantra in raiding. if you can't find a proper usage of one of your toolkit/skills in pve - think out of the box maybe you'll find the answer there ^^

Akh Morn is an example for use of this. Especially with one healer or if more ppl are dead already. It can safe a run.

Mantra even un traited can help if your running drg nin or running mnk nin or mnk drg. That 5% may seem underestimated but it does help alot

Pop it pre-pull to help the sch fish for better adlo's to deploy?

Was maining SCH to start patch, then switched to monk and I feel there are a lot of uses for Mantra in this raid tier:

A9S: During both Faust and Faust Z, prior to acid rains or Faust AoE
A10S: Any time AoE goes out as the party is usually stacked
A11S: Prior to Eternal Darkness, back to back whirlwinds, multi-person photons
A12S: Prior to Holy or any split damage mechanics, during first set of adds prior to wings

Monk Mantra is also very powerful when paired with any AoE HoTs

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Originally Posted by Laurinah

Was maining SCH to start patch, then switched to monk and I feel there are a lot of uses for Mantra in this raid tier:

A9S: During both Faust and Faust Z, prior to acid rains or Faust AoE
A10S: Any time AoE goes out as the party is usually stacked
A11S: Prior to Eternal Darkness, back to back whirlwinds, multi-person photons
A12S: Prior to Holy or any split damage mechanics, during first set of adds prior to wings

Monk Mantra is also very powerful when paired with any AoE HoTs

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i think nobody questioned the use of mantra in raids. ^^

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Originally Posted by Neela

i think nobody questioned the use of mantra in raids. ^^

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When are we questioning it then?

Ex primals are mechanic dependant on its uses (which is fine, not all skills need to be used in all fights, as a PLD I can definately attest to that), Nidhoggs Ahk Morn is a good time to use it though; and as for dungeons, i've been beginning to notice that physik on my SCH is an unnecessary skill, let alone mantra :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

When are we questioning it then?

Ex primals are mechanic dependant on its uses (which is fine, not all skills need to be used in all fights, as a PLD I can definately attest to that), Nidhoggs Ahk Morn is a good time to use it though; and as for dungeons, i've been beginning to notice that physik on my SCH is an unnecessary skill, let alone mantra :rolleyes:

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Well regarding to OPs question it doesn't seem that he have been in raiding yet ^^

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

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What exactly is the point of mantra? It's range, CD, and duration is all so limited you can barely plan around it unless you use it as a prepull buff or before a bosses ultimate.

It feels like a rather forgotten tool to me.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I do too!
But the way this game plays, it comes off as useless. Of course, when raids deal a lot more damage it'll be better, but right now it's just "more damage more damage!".

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Honestly, I really don't understand why people be bashing defensive cd's like Mantra lately. A big part of why MCH is one of my mains is because of Dis/RM. I love the fact that I can assist in ways other than just with WF burst + Hyper charge. I'd actually like for defensive assist cd's to become more prominent and useful!

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Because i don't need it in potd it's cluttering up my bar! Why did they gib me dis?!

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

It just feels like extremely situational utility like this is the reason Monk is so currently looked down on.

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IMO monk is looked down upon because although it offers raid utility in the form of increased raid survivability, MNK offers no raid utility that increases raid dps. In this game, once your group meets the minimum survivability requirements (which is pretty easy if everyone does mechanics properly), the only thing left is increasing dps output. As a result, MNKs value to a group decreases as the group's skill level increases because skilled players can do mechanics properly which in itself = increased raid survivability. If a group can survive without a monk, then bringing a monk into the group instead of a mch, nin, drg, etc would be a dps loss.

That's not to say that Enhanced Mantra (+20% healing) isn't amazing though. 20% is a hefty chunk!

They said they are re-evaluating skill that are not used much. Mantra could fall in that scenario too but still it is used so maybe they'll just make it more effective and/or add something MNKs miss like an enmity dumping. Just an idea