Should the ToS be updated to allow botting?

If people are botting on their mains, then it's not being enforced. Why not update the ToS so that not only a select few benefit from it?

... allow botting?

Who is botting on their mains? Maybe add some more context or source to your claim?

I've never understood this. Why get a bot to essentially play a game for you? Doesn't that take all of the meaning out of it?

Tisk, tisk, you are going about it the wrong way!

You don't allow boting, you implement an ingame bot complete with user interface that can run for a certain amount of time every day and then sell bonus time for it in the cash shop.

That's how capitalism does it!

"People are speeding anyway, why not take away speed limits so not only a select few can benefit from driving faster?"

This request doesnt make sense, and I'm tempted to believe its sarcasm. They may not be enforcing it strongly enough, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed. Report the people you know of that are doing it so that maybe it CAN be enforced better.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Who is botting on their mains? Maybe add some more context or source to your claim?

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top raiders

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Originally Posted by Inori-Yuzuriha

top raiders

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This is beyond unhelpful. Do we want to have a discussion here, or just say random things? I guess I can join in.

Chocolate covered Lalafells.

No. Also, please report the botters every time.

Wait aren't you the same person who asked what the offical stance is on non rmt bots?, why do i get the feeling you want to use bots yourself?.

Next thing you know, people will want RMT legalized because people should have the ability to buy gil.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Tisk, tisk, you are going about it the wrong way!

You don't allow boting, you implement an ingame bot complete with user interface that can run for a certain amount of time every day and then sell bonus time for it in the cash shop.

That's how capitalism does it!

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Nailed it, Zojha!

But seriously, the sad part is that the formula being followed for development of this game truly fits such a function.

"Oh, our primary goal for progression in this same is grinding some arbitrary amount of arbitrary currency with an arbitrary weekly cap".

Sounds like the perfect environment for automated game functionality to me.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Next thing you know, people will want RMT legalized because people should have the ability to buy gil.

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You're late to the party - people already asked for gametime tokens you can sell on the markets ala WoW.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You're late to the party - people already asked for gametime tokens you can sell on the markets ala WoW.

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Irrelevant. I never mentioned game tokens.

In a word...

NO!

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Irrelevant. I never mentioned game tokens.

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It's the same damn thing as RMT - you buy the token with real money and sell it for virtual money. In other words, you exchange real currency for virtual currency. Aka RMT.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

Wait aren't you the same person who asked what the offical stance is on non rmt bots?, why do i get the feeling you want to use bots yourself?.

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Some might say that there is no smoke without fire, some might say....

No. And no.

Are you kidding me? Pay a game to put a bto to play for you? I don't get this. Are the world becoming crazy or something?

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

I've never understood this. Why get a bot to essentially play a game for you? Doesn't that take all of the meaning out of it?

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In my experience there are some people who will cheat at everything. So of course some will bot, just as in some games, some will mod their save data to give themselves anything, or upgrade their gear. Cheating is cheating and personally I consider botting to be cheating, since you are acquiring things that you could not otherwise obtain through normal play, and gaining an advantage over others in the process.

So, in essence, perhaps the question being asked is; "Should the ToS be updated to allow cheating?"

It would at least be more accurate, and clearly undesirable.

In the end, the person most cheated by a cheater is the cheater them self.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

It's the same damn thing as RMT - you buy the token with real money and sell it for virtual money. In other words, you exchange real currency for virtual currency. Aka RMT.

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Buying gil alone is not the same thing as using in game currency to buy more sub time. So no, not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Cinno

"People are speeding anyway, why not take away speed limits so not only a select few can benefit from driving faster?"

This request doesnt make sense, and I'm tempted to believe its sarcasm. They may not be enforcing it strongly enough, but that doesn't mean it should be allowed. Report the people you know of that are doing it so that maybe it CAN be enforced better.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

No. Also, please report the botters every time.

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I have been reporting. I have not noticed the slightest change. This means one of a few things:
1. They are unable to detect the bot
2. The response time is in the weeks
3. They have no intention of enforcing it or don't view it as against the ToS
4. The report system is broken and they have not been receiving any reports
5. The punishment is nothing more than a warning

The system in place does not help. You are given no record of your reports and no status on the reports. It could be they review them instantly, but it could also be they ignore them unless it involves RMT.

This isn't about RMT. As you've seen, they do enforce the rules against RMT botting.

As an example, Tailfeather around 8:00 AM Eorzean time. Watch as the bots zone in, perform some conversions and move to the same spot before flying away. Doesn't matter where they zone in, it's always the same spot.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

This is beyond unhelpful. Do we want to have a discussion here, or just say random things? I guess I can join in.

Chocolate covered Lalafells.

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Well tbh what he said is true that there are top raiders who bot etc. (alot imo I would say) but we have that rule not calling names and such.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

I've never understood this. Why get a bot to essentially play a game for you? Doesn't that take all of the meaning out of it?

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Because some activities are not fun! Gathering shards for example. No way I must gather them myself. And I buy it from a marketboard, probably from bots. And I don't care what they do with my gil, because they save my time. I don't bot myself of course.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

It's the same damn thing as RMT.

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No...buying game time tokens with in-game gil from SE isn't the same. Since the profits of it go to SE which is where all profits from their game should go; not to some third party RMT trying to exploit a game they do not own to make a profit.

As for the botting honestly they do need to do something about it. RMT use bots that speed hack across maps and some players use gather bots which in the past I have reported gather bots and speed hackers and nothing is ever done. I even have video proof of a player speed hacking lol their character is still around even though many people caught them and reported them for speed hacking.

I mean this gets you to believe they just don't care to ban them so I don't know. All of the reports I made did nothing even though I was 99% sure someone was botting and 100% sure of that speed hacker before even sending a report. Now I just ignore it and I don't report anything anymore since it seems to be a waste of effort/time. I just go about playing and having my own fun because in the end only SE has any power to do anything and so far it seems not many bots get banned since a lot of the gatherer bots I've reported are still around a year or two later.

I saw a bot in Northern Thanalan, that would say "Not everyone is a bot. Stop being so paranoid. " If you mentioned the word bot every after every 5 mins or so. Talk about committed player or crazy bot. Lmao. Bots are really quick to close trade requests, so fast that you get an error, even when they aren't set to busy.

Botting is all fun and games until you see 50,000+ clusters being sold by random letter name retainers for less than the respective shards are being sold for by retainers with pronouncible names. That said, you want to gather with minimal effort, buy some Ventures.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Well tbh what he said is true that there are top raiders who bot etc. (alot imo I would say) but we have that rule not calling names and such.

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Saying "top raiders" is completely useless, as it adds no context. In what way do you think that 'top raiders' are botting?

Lime green elephants.

Legalizing botting? No way! The kid I pay to farm materials for me on my account would be out of a job so fast... /sarcasm

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Buying gil alone is not the same thing as using in game currency to buy more sub time. So no, not the same thing.

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I don't think you understand how the tokens work. The game time tokens are purchased for real money first before being sold for game money. That's the definition of buying gil.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

I have been reporting. I have not noticed the slightest change. This means one of a few things:
1. They are unable to detect the bot
2. The response time is in the weeks
3. They have no intention of enforcing it or don't view it as against the ToS
4. The report system is broken and they have not been receiving any reports
5. The punishment is nothing more than a warning

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or maybe: 6. Money talk$$$

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Originally Posted by Raikki

I don't think you understand how the tokens work. The game time tokens are purchased for real money first before being sold for game money. That's the definition of buying gil.

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Difference between this and unpermitted RMT would be : where the money goes. SE would get the money from those token purchases, not some RMT company that puts bots at main city Aetherytes and boards to say some gil advertisement every few seconds. Effectively, those tokens allow someone (John) to pay someone else (Arthur) Gil, in exchange for Arthur providing John with game time purchased from SE.

Is it RMT? Yes; but RMT from SE happens every time someone buys any in game Glamour or Phantasia from the Mogstation.

As for allowing botting .. no. Non-RMT botting should be banned just as fast as RMT botting.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

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RMT vs unpermitted RMT sounds like buying weed from the state vs going to the weed man on 37th street by the Wendy's. SE could kill this problem easy, but again it's SEs fault we have it and the fact they punish people for their faults, rather fix them has always been humorous is my eyes.

Just because the bots don't get removed right away doesn't mean that they don't get punished, nor does it mean it should ever be considered an acceptable practise.

If you're ever at a point where you're thinking 'gee I'd rather let a program play the game for me while I do something else', and that this sounds like a good idea? Then you should consider quitting that game and finding something you actually enjoy doing.

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Originally Posted by Cenerae

If you're ever at a point where you're thinking 'gee I'd rather let a program play the game for me while I do something else', and that this sounds like a good idea? Then you should consider quitting that game and finding something you actually enjoy doing.

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There's a reason RMT make a lot of money from selling level-capped characters in all games, including this one, and by no means all they sell are stolen, they bot them to cap then sell, which shows how many actually never get reported or sanctioned.

I've never understood why legit players (read: players that aren't RMT/gathering bots) would want to use a bot to play this game.
If you don't actually want to put the effort into playing this game, and would rather have a botting program do it for you, then you should probably stop paying your subscription.

And why would "top raiders" bot this game???? What purpose does that even serve????

I don't support the idea of botting ever being allowed by the ToS. That would just give the RMT/gathering bots more ways to get around SE's efforts to weed them out. Since botting would now be allowed, you would actually have to catch them in the act of RMT or advertising it to get rid of them.

This is your third thread about botting. Get over it. It's against ToS. You don't have as much time to play, that sucks, doesn't mean you should be allowed to cheat.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

raiders" bot this game???? What purpose does that even serve????

I don't support the idea of botting ever being allowed by the ToS. That would just give the RMT/gathering bots more ways to get around SE's efforts to weed them out. Since botting would now be allowed, you would actually have to catch them in the act of RMT or advertising it to get rid of them.

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No one want botting be allowed the problem is more that alot of ppl who arent RMT not getting any bans. Trust me raiders have reason to bot too dont make it look like only casuals do it. I mean if a raider leveling 3-4 alts to bypass lockout with bots they kinda do have reasons too.

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Originally Posted by Miste

No...buying game time tokens with in-game gil from SE isn't the same. Since the profits of it go to SE which is where all profits from their game should go; not to some third party RMT trying to exploit a game they do not own to make a profit.

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It still have the same effect. Someone spend real money to get alot of ingame curency. He buy "first patch day" glamour without waiting for price drop, resulting in hyperinflation on the server.

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It still have the same effect. Someone spend real money to get alot of ingame curency. He buy "first patch day" glamour without waiting for price drop, resulting in hyperinflation on the server.

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How would it cause inflation if the gil already existed?

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Originally Posted by Enur

How would it cause inflation if the gil already existed?

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Because glamour sellers will increase their prices. If someone buy it, the price is ok. And if you can't buy it, then sell play time to get the needed gil.