Speed Running Leveling Roulette

So, what's your thoughts on this?

I mean, ideally, I'm all for getting things done a quickly as possible, and in Every other Roulette perhaps but, I find this fairly easy to do and with proper cool down management, it's generally not too much strain on healers, and most can even throw in dps.

Though leveling roulette I have a different mentality. For one most players aren't meeting max item level, or have maximized rotations, or optimized, you don't necessarily have your entire toolkit. On three occassions while leveling my Astro through Dusk Vigil and the Aery, I had folks pull Everything til the boss's door.

This pretty much left me Benefic II spaming the entire time, and using every trick in the book to keep their plummeting health total from reaching zero... and a few times it got very close. Add in that DPS isn't optimized, and found myself having to uses mp refresh halfway into his pulls just to keep up, and at times, taking Bole in favor of DPS buffs because of the tank's seeming carelessness.

Now I main tank.. and I get that folks are just getting their WT/Relic requirements in.. but just seems like that particularly environment isn't really conducive to pull all things speed runs.

I suppose when I tank a leveling, I tend to do 2 groups at a time, knowing I'm wearing optimum gear. Seems a fair amount for the content, and gives me a feel for how well everyone is keeping up.

Depends on what dungeon it is and the group.

Trying to speed through AV will usually get you killed. Satasha, Tam-Tara, and Copperbell larger pulls are fine since everything dies so fast if your party is at capped ilevel. Toto-rak can be rushed through pretty quickly if you know the right path, Qarn isn't really efficient to speed through because of the enemy types and layout, Dzemael has that nice crystal buff that's perfect for pulling big. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I don't think in Tam-Tara many tanks pull everything from the beginning of the dungeon to the boss entrance. That's what I'm referring to. Picking up all necessary mobs and dragging them all to the boss entrance in leveling content.

Really, it depends on the duty, and then it depends on your party members.

If you land in a leveling dungeon with all four of you being level 60 and well-geared, even with the synced aspect of the duty, you can probably speed run it with the exception of a few dungeons (please do not pull the entire first room of AV; you will all end up pulverized no matter what, and also that large pull in Dzemael with the frogs can be a sticky situation for anyone--experienced or not).

If you load in and see that one or more people are not synced down, or are a few levels above the duty sync yet poorly geared, probably not a good idea to speed run, especially if the poorly geared individual(s) is/are your tank and/or healer. If there is ever a new person bonus, also probably not a good idea to just bulldoze through the duty either.

I don't encounter a lot of people that try to speed run the leveling/story dungeons (however, there are still those out there that do), but I particularly find it annoying when people want to steamroll through everything. Even if I am level 60 and only there for the tomes bonus the roulette gives me. Because usually, there is one person there trying to learn the dungeon, or trying to level up/learn an alt class/job, and speed-runs don't exactly serve as the best learning environment. But that's just my opinion.

(Obviously, I don't want to spend 45 minutes in a leveling dungeon either, but if you have people that are new, or leveling up a class/job, some courtesy and patience is always much appreciated by them, I'm sure.)

@Hyo, I quite agree. I can speed run Ex Roulette all day (and it's worth noting that they've placed obstacles to avoid pulling all things to the boss), and everyone would agree if you can stay up without being a strain while you do it, then more power to you. But Leveling may as well be called Learning roulette. If your healer has to frantically spam their highest level healing spell to keep you from dying to your impatient stupidity, then that should be a sign that you should tone that $#it down.

One important thing that some tanks forget is that melees don't get aoe skills until around lv 30-40 (forgot what lv mnks get their aoe), so mass pulling in lower lv dungeons when you have 2 melees is not a very good idea lol.

Dusk vigil and aery have walls though so you can't really pull it all to the boss door...

I believe you can pull the first 4 groups of mobs before you meet a roadblock in either, you don't hafta wait for the mini behemoth guy to die before pulling them to the next two groups in Dusk. Then you have one more group, followed by another big guy at hte gate.

So you can pull 6 regular mobs and 2 bigger mobs before reaching an obstacle to move forward in Dusk Vigil.

That's not very much, especially considering in 2.X you could pull 10+ mobs and LITERALLY to the boss door each time. I can understand the frustration though, you're in a dungeon that's in HW, but you're at that awkward point where it kinda feels inbetween. Your tanks's seem to be wearing cardboard boxes for armor and if they don't know how to manage CD's it can become a nightmare. Tanks always should stop and assess the situation, look at your dps/healers gear and watch their skills with the first few pulls. If they seem to be doing good, try bigger ones. If not, just do it normally. Honestly, I don't see how bigger pulls are supposed to speed things up, it always seems to take about the same amount of time anyway. Tanks should pay attention instead of running like a fat kid after cake being pulled by a string to a candy shop ._.

@Koroko

Lol I suppose I don't care how much they pull, so long as at the end I'm not mana tapped and frazzled at the end.... or worse.. my trying to keep them alive causes aggro on me OR I can't keep them up and I'm the bad guy because they wanted to be RWAR! Heh.

I like big pulls... I just like them to be manageable. If I gotta give him Bole instead of giving the dps Balance... i'm not sure it's speeding much up.

Depends on the dungeon, as many people said.

In Library (Hard) for example, the dungeon is short and the mobs die faster. Going in as DRK, if my party's DPS is a combination of BLM, SMN, BRD or MCH, I'm excited and will mass pull. Otherwise, I pull the first two groups and determine if I can keep pulling. I judge this based on Blood Price; mobs should be dead before Blood Price is active a second time in the same group of mobs.

I don't do it too much in the Leveling or Lv50 dungeons, as I don't have access to Abyssal Drain.

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Originally Posted by Steady

@Koroko

Lol I suppose I don't care how much they pull, so long as at the end I'm not mana tapped and frazzled at the end.... or worse.. my trying to keep them alive causes aggro on me OR I can't keep them up and I'm the bad guy because they wanted to be RWAR! Heh.

I like big pulls... I just like them to be manageable. If I gotta give him Bole instead of giving the dps Balance... i'm not sure it's speeding much up.

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I totally understand that. Carry on soldier, you can do this! o7

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Even if I am level 60 and only there for the tomes bonus the roulette gives me. Because usually, there is one person there trying to learn the dungeon, or trying to level up/learn an alt class/job, and speed-runs don't exactly serve as the best learning environment.

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This especially. Before I started to warn people "I'm new, don't know the gimmicks and am a horrible Tank" I always felt like I was doing everything wrong and holding everyone back on my first try. Not to mention it wasn't fun. Fortunately I'm on a server where people are willing to stop and say "make sure you stand here" or "watch out for poison vomit"

Oh yeah, and this will be forever relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OOHRk2-A6A

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Originally Posted by koroko220

Dusk vigil and aery have walls though so you can't really pull it all to the boss door...

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Maybe they meant stone vigil, and/or consider 6 mobs "everything till the boss"?

No. I mean't the dungeons I said. The only wall between the beginning and the first boss door comes right before the gate where you have the three spawn followed by the 1 spawn. Meaning your tanking 2 big spawns 6 little spawns and dragging them through a considerably distance to boot. At any rate, it's all kinda a moot point now.

If you can pull all the shit and not require me to spam Bene II's frantically to keep you from zero... then pull all you want. But if your health total is bouncing around wildly and you think that's okay, your either not using your cooldowns effectively, or just shouldn't be doing those pulls at all.

It does not only depend on the dungeon. It also depends on your group. Do they know rotations and can they use them properly due to the level sync? Can your healer use his skills properly?

I had a tank in Dusk Vigil who thought it would be awesome if he pulls everything he could find, but sadly people take really hard hits in these 51+ dungeons, way more than in this expert fun.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

It does not only depend on the dungeon. It also depends on your group. Do they know rotations and can they use them properly due to the level sync? Can your healer use his skills properly?

I had a tank in Dusk Vigil who thought it would be awesome if he pulls everything he could find, but sadly people take really hard hits in these 51+ dungeons, way more than in this expert fun.

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That was pretty much the exact experience I had. I kept him up... but I wouldn't have called it fun. Had another one today in Gubal. Though was lv 59 Astro and had my complete toolset at that point, so was more manageable.

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Originally Posted by Steady

That was pretty much the exact experience I had. I kept him up... but I wouldn't have called it fun. Had another one today in Gubal. Though was lv 59 Astro and had my complete toolset at that point, so was more manageable.

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Yeah during leveling after 51+ its sometimes really hard to keep tanks alive if they want to pull like in level 60 dungeons.

Went BLM this time into Dusk Vigil and watched another Lv 60 Warrior try to mass pull, and fail repeatedly. Felt bad for the healer <<... who had a relic cane i260.... albeit synced down. Didn't seem to be too much a problem until the pulls in the hallway following the first boss.