New Shared Role Action System Concern

I want to say, when this new system was announced at the NA fanfest, I in general like the idea. I think it could open up things for some jobs that could be incredibly beneficial.
HOWEVER! In reading over the Gamer Escapes translation of the Famitsu Article I have a rather large concern (maybe even fear) of what this means for my HIGHLY preferred job of choice, Bard. This is what the question and answer stated:

F: DPS have different types such as physical range and melee. Will all of them share the same abilities?

Y: We will most likely give different abilities to physical melee and physical ranged. However, physical ranged and magical ranged will most likely get the same abilities, as things are going.

The comments in italics and underlined are what concern me most about this new system.
I know this is speculation. I know there are not enough details about it all. But I can't help but worry that this will mean that things I currently use; Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Invigorate, Second Wind, will no longer be available to me as Bard. Further more the idea that I'm going to get "spells" from casters honestly just makes me cry because I feel SE is going all in on this idea that physical ranged really are just casters. I'm waiting to see spell speed on my gear instead of skill speed or my mp gauge drastically increased because I'll no longer use TP.

I understand this may not bother others. I know some will tell me to play another job. Some of the people I know have even said it could just mean that some of my new skills to 70 will be new buffs to replace what I've lost (which makes me sad because I'd rather get totally new stuff!) But I have spent my time and effort being good at Bard as it stands and feel if I wanted to be caster... I WOULD play blm or smn.

It may be too far along in the process for them truly reconsider. So I know I can only hope for what I consider to be the worst, will not come to pass. At the least I hope they can give more details on this perhaps at the Japan Fanfest and keep me from thinking about this in varying degrees of severity for the next 6 months :eek:

As a fellow bard main this news scares the hell out of me. Our abilities using mp would destroy our ability to use songs effectively. And if our abilities still use tp, losing invigorate would lower our potential aoe damage output.

I would be pissed if they moved the class even further away from what it was in ARR. Sometimes i move around in sub lvl 50 dungeons not because i need to but just because i can.

I can totally agree about how you feel on it moving further away from ARR. I had some hope they would find a way to make physical ranged more mobile again. I know WoW is a bad word here but I've been told their system still allows for movement and that the buff auto activates upon you standing still long enough and only comes off if you move for too long.

I fear that this change can destroy the game for me entirely. Right now i switch classes for a change in gameplay/rotation/playstyle/etc.

Making EVERYONE with SAME abilities is quite......dissapointing? Aka "ability lock" by "Melee DPS/Ranged DPS", etc.
3 new abilities from a class and 20 basic?(for every RDD, as example). We need more info.

it might make me go off bard, a job i've been enjoying for 2.5 years now, and switch to WAR as main.

I don't get how you can stretch shared abilities to gear. I think they are more or less talking about how bard and machinist are mainly bow/gun mages and follow some of the same general rules as black mage and summoner. You might end up losing internal release and blood for blood. However, that doesn't mean that they won't replace it with something else altogether. They may even give machinist and bard a new TP regeneration skill. Or maybe not and those skills will still be shared, somehow. In my honest opinion, their buffs should be trimmed down just a little bit and offer buffs to their skills instead to help offset the loss of buffs.

I wonder if bard would get swiftcast? Their songs are listed as spells; I wouldn't mind seeing something along the lines of a swiftcast Foe's Requiem. They already got a 45 second cooldown esuna that prevents and removes a debuff.

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

I fear that this change can destroy the game for me entirely. Right now i switch classes for a change in gameplay/rotation/playstyle/etc.

Making EVERYONE with SAME abilities is quite......dissapointing? Aka "ability lock" by "Melee DPS/Ranged DPS", etc.
3 new abilities from a class and 20 basic?(for every RDD, as example). We need more info.

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It will replace cross-skills, not class/job skills, if that is what you fear
cross-skills get abandoned and replaced with role skills.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

I don't get how you can stretch shared abilities to gear. I think they are more or less talking about how bard and machinist are mainly bow/gun mages and follow some of the same general rules as black mage and summoner.

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So lets be clear. I NEVER stated they ARE changing gear. It was simply a comment based on their seemingly insistent direction that bard and machinist by your own words are "mages". It is not an illogical step in this line of thought to think the path may lead to a change in traits on gear. (truth be told I see no need for the separation of skill and spell speed in general)

I'm well aware my songs are called spells (I've been a bard since 1.0) but the VAST majority of my actions are Weaponskills. So I'm not sure why I have more in common with BLM and SMN as apposed to DRG or NIN when only 1/3 of my actions are spells (this is not counting abilities just weaponskills vs spells) Even with a "cast" on my Weaponskills I cast faster than any melee's global cool down and for sure faster than a mages spells.

As you seemed to miss though, in my own post I also mentioned they could give us our own skill to replace something we've lost, but as I also mentioned I find that unpreferred simply because I would rather see NEW things brought to my job not "damage control" having to be done to my job because they take things away SIMPLY because they want to turn me into a mage.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

In my honest opinion, their buffs should be trimmed down just a little bit and offer buffs to their skills instead to help offset the loss of buffs.

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I would maybe concede to this point of yours though. MAYBE it still feels like having to throw it in simply because they want to take things away to turn me into a mage. Technically though if it was specific to a skill I GUESS that could be seen as new. But what can I say.... I want to have my cake and eat it to.

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Originally Posted by Nikkita

As you seemed to miss though, in my own post I also mentioned they could give us our own skill to replace something we've lost, but as I also mentioned I find that unpreferred simply because I would rather see NEW things brought to my job not "damage control" having to be done to my job because they take things away SIMPLY because they want to turn me into a mage.

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I doubt the devs will put all of them into the lv 60-70 range. Most of them will be in the lv 1-50 ranges. So you will still get new skills.
I can also imagine that you need 2 jobs of the same role at a specific level to unlock a role skill.

The general consensus in an older speculation thread on how this will work is that we'll still keep our cross class skills and role skills will be something else.

For example, PLD will still keep MRD and CNJ as cross class skills, but provoke (as a necessary skill for all tanks) will be made a role skill.

So BRD will keep PUG and LNC cross classes. At worst you'll lose access to invigorate which is likely going to be a melee role skill. But again maybe not. It's all speculation until we get some concrete info.

But I do agree giving ranged classes the Mage role skills seems stupid, what use do MCH and BRD have for swiftcast? (Only one I can think would be a Mage role skill).

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

The general consensus in an older speculation thread on how this will work is that we'll still keep our cross class skills and role skills will be something else.

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They wanted to prune skills, not bloat them - I can't see "that" happening myself.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

The general consensus in an older speculation thread on how this will work is that we'll still keep our cross class skills and role skills will be something else.

For example, PLD will still keep MRD and CNJ as cross class skills, but provoke (as a necessary skill for all tanks) will be made a role skill.

So BRD will keep PUG and LNC cross classes. At worst you'll lose access to invigorate which is likely going to be a melee role skill. But again maybe not. It's all speculation until we get some concrete info.

But I do agree giving ranged classes the Mage role skills seems stupid, what use do MCH and BRD have for swiftcast? (Only one I can think would be a Mage role skill).

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Surecast gets overhauled to allow free movement while casting without interruption, and works on a duration basis instead of only for the next attack. Please look forward to it.

(I wonder if Bard will end up getting a buff where our arrows temporarily turn into magic damage to sync with Foe, in exchange for our attacks using MP instead.)

Or maybe your Songs will now go on your Lung so you need Tp because it Uses up Stamina ^^

I think you are all reading way too much into a system that is still in development and that we have very little detail on at the moment. Feedback is good but I don't think leaping to worse case scenarios is. I mean for example, what cross class Spellcaster skill currently cost mana? Any of them? BLM and SMN already have access to BRD skills.

The Shared Role system is supposed to be a revamp of the cross class system, giving all classes necessary skills, removing existing repeat skills and making it so you don't have to level a Job you don't enjoy to play one you do.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I think you are all reading way too much into a system that is still in development and that we have very little detail on at the moment. Feedback is good but I don't think leaping to worse case scenarios is. I mean for example, what cross class Spellcaster skill currently cost mana? Any of them? BLM and SMN already have access to BRD skills.

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2 things on this part. Yoshi P said a million times to "please speculate" about other things brought up in that article so why not speculate on them all! But also Feedback is only as good as the sincerity behind it. I am FULLY aware we need more details. I stated this from the beginning. But to think people, when given super limited information, won't think about where things could lead is incredibly short sighted. And there is a chance it can let the community team if not the dev team know about people's concerns IN CASE that is in fact the path they were considering.

As far as your spell caster skills costing mana, Nope never said they would. And BLM and SMN have access to BRD skills? Yup they sure do and from the casters I've played with that and swiftcast is the only things they've felt were worth a damn as cross class skills, so that said not sure how that helps BRD and MCH because THAT"S my concern. What does BLM and SMN offer to BRD and MCH? There was another post about the famitsu article that claimed Yoshi P said skills like Bio and Miasma. That does not thrill me.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The Shared Role system is supposed to be a revamp of the cross class system, giving all classes necessary skills, removing existing repeat skills and making it so you don't have to level a Job you don't enjoy to play one you do.

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I can agree with this part of your statement and believe this is more the idea then the "general consensus" someone else spoke of. I do not believe they are in anyway keeping the current cross class skill system or rather the "additional skill system" and it is being replaced with the shared role system. I could of course be wrong but as someone else pointed out this would "bloat" our skills not prune them as would seem to be the desire.

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Originally Posted by Nikkita

Internal Release, Blood for Blood, Invigorate, Second Wind

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To be perfectly honest, that skill (like mantra on DRG) is simply filler. Usually if you NEED to use it you need to light a fire under your healers.

I feel you're thinking WAY too much into this. IR/B4B are staple physical DPS skills, so I doubt they'd be taken away. And how did you draw the conclusion "physical ranged will get spells"?

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Originally Posted by Frowny

To be perfectly honest, that skill (like mantra on DRG) is simply filler. Usually if you NEED to use it you need to light a fire under your healers.

I feel you're thinking WAY too much into this. IR/B4B are staple physical DPS skills, so I doubt they'd be taken away. And how did you draw the conclusion "physical ranged will get spells"?

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Second Wind is pretty great on a Bard with straight shot always boosting our crit rate. ._. If i step in stupid and get a vuln down, it's nice to know that I have a trump card. Mantra as a cross class is garbage, but a 5k crit heal is pretty substantial.

There's a reason why they changed BRD to not use CNJ skills during the overhaul from 1.0 to 2.0. AKA they realized people would demand brds crap-tier heal instead of singing (not that alot of them actually sing anyways).

So I'm reasonably reassured that they're not going to do something ass stupid when it comes to stuff using MP and BRDs.

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Originally Posted by Leknaat

There's a reason why they changed BRD to not use CNJ skills during the overhaul from 1.0 to 2.0. AKA they realized people would demand brds crap-tier heal instead of singing (not that alot of them actually sing anyways).

So I'm reasonably reassured that they're not going to do something ass stupid when it comes to stuff using MP and BRDs.

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You mean something not as stupid like copy and past skills that don't work with BRD and throwing a cast bar onto the class?