So from what I read it would seem like if I had a level 50 LNC and unlock Dragoon I'd have a level 50 Dragoon... I think its bad to just give us the levels I know it makes it easier. I know a lot of people might be thinking " Oh awesome I didn't want to level another job." What I want you to think about though is should we really just be handed the jobs levels? I know they were talking of doing a quest system to unlock ability's but I think just giving us level 50 is a bad idea. Part of playing a MMO is leveling and I think some people may think once they get all classes to 50 they have nothing else to do. I know there will be end game content to do but some people don't always see end game content as interesting. Not to mention some people may want to just take a break from end game for awhile and level a job they never thought about leveling before. Another concern is people may see someones class as GLD but think oh a PLD. You might think oh why should they care the exp goes to their GLD too. Until you want to play as a GLD and not a PLD. If the thought of casual players comes to mind ask yourself this does everyone really need to have every class and job at max? Having a bunch of classes and jobs at max isn't needed to enjoy the game its a luxury granted by hard work and determination. I say make people earn job levels. Make having all jobs at 50 feel like something special.
Ok ok Hang on a sec *puts on fireproof suit* Ok I'm ready bring on the heat.
dev1033 No Job Leveling?
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11-21-2011, 03:12 AMToxicFoxdev1033 No Job Leveling?
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11-21-2011, 03:43 AMAirget
The problem with jobs is they aren't meant to be leveled. If you look at the list that was given you would notice that all jobs only have 5 abilities. This ties into the concept that we are given 15 class abilities, 10 free slots and then 5 slots left open which take the role of what the job abilities are. Jobs aren't their own self-defined class they are a class enhancer and as such level up along with your class rather then act as it's own. If they planned out jobs to have more abilities and traits of their own I could understand wanting the 1-50 experience however based on what is known, the experience of jobs will be told through quest. So even a person who is a 50 Pugilist won't have access to all the Monk abilities once they unlock the Monk job, they'll have to do all the quest before obtaining them all which could mean that each job has 5 unique quest attached to them starting at 30 and going from 35/40/45/50.
It's also unclear as to how challenging the quest may be, they may be simple lore based enjoy the plot quest or omg defeat this annoying mob kind of quest. Heck if you consider the current meta-game of xp the sense of accomplishment is basically hindered on the current method of being able to PL, so pretty much if you gave levels to those jobs it wouldn't be people grouping together fighting leveling it up the fastest, but the linkshell with the most people PLing their friends to the cap level.
Overall Jobs are there own entity, used to give the class a defined role, it's as simple as that, to complex it anymore would add an unnecessary time sink if the only outcome at 50 was having access to 5 abilities. In the future there could be different concepts to the job system or even needing certain jobs unlocked to unlock new classes. But ya that's all in the future and even the jobs themselves aren't til 1.21 so things can change but I doubt they will change to become their own identity. -
11-21-2011, 03:58 AMPrettyPrincess
...why are people finding this a surprise still? It was mentioned how it would work months ago O.o
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11-21-2011, 04:20 AMSephrick
People just can't seem to grasp the concept that if you're a "Paladin" you're just a Gladiator with a few extra abilities. There's nothing to level.
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11-21-2011, 04:22 AMBetelgeuzahAssuming that they won't take GLA's actions away when you become PLD, like your HP among other things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
To say that you're just a GLA is stretching it. -
11-21-2011, 05:54 AMToxicFox
So they're just altering the current classes and slapping a fancy title on it... That's just lame... Still with everything how it is I wonder how they plan to add in something like a new class....
Btw I only just recently read up on the road map and got up to date on everything. -
11-21-2011, 06:01 AMgrandm
i knda agree with OP. as soon as i found out jobs and class lv at the same time i took a break from battle to work on craft and gathering. i will go back to battle class/job when the job system comes out (will have a little play with new classes in 1.20 tho)
should point out i understand why its like it is with no leveling. i just don't want to be at 50 when it comes out, that why i slowed down on battle -
11-21-2011, 06:04 AMSephrickIt'd be kind of tough to play with only five abilities. Besides, there's job weaponskills and magic that chain off base actions available to the class. Like DRG WS 2 comboing from LNC WS 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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11-21-2011, 06:06 AMBetelgeuzahNot all abilities, duh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
Just like when you're a MRD and don't have access to some WAR skills, it can go both ways.
They might even give WAR actions from the second class the job originates from to boost it's performance in the role it excels in, plus to fill in the lost actions.
In that case it's quite the stretch that PLD would be "just like GLA". It keeps the weaponskills and the weapon type. Sounds like the case of WAR vs. PLD in XI. -
11-21-2011, 06:08 AMgrandmthey did say months ago that when you become pld you would lose some gld's moves, i don't know if this is still the case or not. but they say class can be played solo and job can't. well if pld had all gld's moves plus extra i don't see how it would lose its solo powersQuote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
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11-21-2011, 07:59 AMSanlordOMFG OMFG OMFG people always forget to read the best part of the all texts from SE. This is still under development and everything is subject to change. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by grandm
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11-21-2011, 08:04 AMSanlordHmmm... 5 Quests to have the advanced job at the max level... will those quests be easy? If you have the answer now, you can blame the SE, if not, stop complainning. I'd love to spend 100 hours making quests to have a class on max level than grind for infinite hours w/o no aparent purpose...Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicFox
The quests can be good challenges. -
11-21-2011, 09:04 AMgrandm
@sanlord
go back and re-read my post. i bolded the important bits that show that i do read the bit where they say its all subject to change -
11-21-2011, 10:05 AMToxicFoxGrinding for hours gets you better at your job and allows you to learn how to play it before you jump into the high level stuff. Earning ability's slowly as you progress helps you to take everything in so no one goes to a end game event thinking their archer can tank.... I can't tell you how many low level RDM's got pissed when I asked them to cast cure in FFXI. I even met a semi high level war that refused to vok for even a second cause he "wasn't a tank" we had a NIN as tank but sometimes his shadows would go down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanlord
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11-21-2011, 05:03 PMBearforcebecause SE sadly did not put a tutorial on how to use jobs instead the system is bashing players on the head and rooting them out which is pretty sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicFox
dont blame the players on how not to play, blame an arrogant jackass game designer that designed a sorry excuse of a game. -
11-21-2011, 06:43 PMToxicFoxQuote:
Originally Posted by Bearforce
Believe it or not the starting missions are kinda like a tutorial they just don't say "TUTORIAL" in large flashing letters. Still they can't do a tutorial for every little thing. Do you need a tutorial to know how to eat and walk? You learned those things through trial and error I'm guessing.
People have a time to get to know their job solo then they have to learn how their job works in a party. How is it you plan to teach them how to play in a party without putting them in a party? MMO's are intense you either can play them or you can't. My first MMO was FFXI and I didn't have any books to help me level faster or any buffs. FFXI back then was very unforgiving. I remember a guy linked half of dunes lizzy pop and ran to the zone but didn't make it. My party was fighting a lizzy at the time and all the lizzy's that were on that guy linked and killed us. Lucky for us a /anon WHM walked by right after and raised us.
If you feel like tossing peoples poor performance on the dev team then that's just sad. They make the system and we use it so if 90% of people can use the system effectively and the other 10% fails to understand their role or gets some idea in their head that mage's are melee types. We all just blame it on the devs and say they made the game poorly. I mean what do I say when the archer I invited refuses to shoot arrows cause they cost money? Damn them devs they should of made a giant pop up tutorial saying "GUESS WHAT MORON ARROWS COST GIL!" -
11-22-2011, 11:22 AMAdorraEloom
From what I understand is jobs are for the casual player (War), and classes are more for the solo hardcore player (MRD). Again this is how I understand it and I could be wrong but this is how I believe the system so far works.
Jobs (like warrior or monk ex..) will have set abilities/skills/moves, a balance for that job at which you can not use skills from other jobs, your just a job with a set of skills. Classes (like MRD or PUG Ex..) will continue to have their own set of abilities/skills/moves, how ever, you will be able to use skills from other classes kinda like you can do now, example would be using cure from a conj on your MRD ex...
Easiest example would be GLD VS the PLD: A PLD (job) will have cure, a taunt type move and so on, so if your a casual player and like tanking this is how you would achieve that goal just rank up a gld which will turn into a pld and thats it, changing to PLD will have your basic skills as a tank that's all you have to level up. Now lets say your a hardcore player and want a tanking job, than again you would rank up a GLD, but now you have to level up a conj as well for the cure, and a pug for the taunt and so on, basically making you rank up other classes (kinda like todays system) and using the skills from other classes on your GLD.
Hope this helps, and again this is how I believe the new system works, I could be wrong because I'm getting bits of information from here and there, but that's pretty much how I think this will work. -
11-23-2011, 08:14 PMCamisado
The practice you get from levelling a class from 1 to 50 should prepare you fairly well for its job counterpart since they have a very similar role in the party with minor alterations to their ability. If you do wish to practice with a job you have the option to join a party with more casual objectives such as farming keys where your sole performance will not greatly affect the party's success.
Although it may be disappointing if you have levelled your favourite classes already and will not be able to use their jobs as much as you like, remember that new content will always be introduced to give you more to do. Including a higher level cap - giving you the chance to level up as the job as well. Aside from that small issue I am glad the jobs and classes share the same level. I would rather not be forced to level a job after going through what will likely be an almost identical experience from when I levelled up the class.
I think partying as the job may be more enjoyable than as the class so I am waiting to level some classes until the jobs are released so I can level as the job instead.