I suppose this goes in the lore section. Can we discuss how babies are made?
Sexuality is a thing to which I'm honestly surprised by. But it's how they do that fascinates me. Is there an Ala Mhigan Karma Sutra that we don't know about? You can find hooke- I mean Courtesans all over Limsa Lominsa, all to which I think are cat girls. What about everyone else? (Come on I know there's something for the ladies somewhere)
Next, race mixing. Cross breeds exist, but not wide spread. Racism isn't that prevalent since Lalas and Lizards can work together. But I really wonder why you don't see mini Lalafels with cat ears or Hyur with a little quirk in their features.
Also, member sizes. Breast sizes are on full display, but just how much is every guy packing? I'm betting from largest to smallest AuRa>Highlander>Roe>Elezen>Miqo'te>Hyur=Lalafel. I need to know!
Conception Lore
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11-25-2016, 05:01 AMClethoriaConception Lore
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11-25-2016, 05:09 AMTheodricThat's not really something the developers are going to elaborate on for obvious reasons but despite the habit of people going 'lol, the biggest race must be the most well equipped xD' that's little more than a biased fetish put forward as fact (especially here on Balmung, ugh). In actuality we don't know - and unbiased speculation would point out that in the real world a lot of big animals aren't necessarily well equipped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clethoria
The humanoid playable races likely have a similar 'equipment range' to real world humans, which in itself is fairly varied depending on how lucky any given guy happens to be. -
11-25-2016, 05:43 AMClethoria
Now, what I'm not asking for is a lesson in anatomy. We've gotten drugs, alcohol, prostitution, and gambling. Ul'dah is 1 New York New York short of being Las Vegas. But we've gotten these things in the form of NPC dialog and very, very to the side content. What makes the lore so fun is being able to hover over an NPC's shoulder and finding out something about people from a conversation. I really want to know, but I want to see it built up from it being noticed. God just vising The Missing Member told me plenty about the female sex drive on their planet. I'd just also like to know who can use what they got better. A Lalafel is even having a racy dream about Raubahn of all people in Camp Drybone(huehue).
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11-25-2016, 06:39 AMEnkidoh
I have to agree with Theodric here - it's not really something the development team is going to specifically refer to (because doing so risks a review of the game's classification which allows more younger players and thus more players period). Of course there are obvious innuendos, sexual references and statements made about Eorzeans' sexuality, but it's not something that is going to be outright stated in a lore post, unless it's done in a more subtle way (such as how Ferne's thread about Humbert Longhaft and all the inneundos about 'his lever' ;)).
However, that does not mean we don't know at least a little about Eorzea's sexual situation. Eorzeans seem to be very open and egalitarian about their sexuality, long standing social taboos and moral questions about sexuality in our world seem to not exist (or if they do, they're more downplayed). The Ceremony of Eternal Bonding is an example of this, ceremonies regard those participating as equals regards of their gender, and it's taken as a normal thing (same sex marriage is even referred to by npcs - back during the first Rising event the (female) vendor stated if asked about her outfit stated "her wife" made it for her, and the context is made as no big deal. It's something that is just taken for granted.
Even gender roles are blurred - the three main citystates all have women as their official head of state, women can take up a sword or wand and serve as a soldier or adventurer just as much as pursuing more 'traditional' roles such as raising a family or 'keeping house', and again it's taken as socially normal. And many npcs are outright open about their sexuality, a good example is Momodi, she is well known for 'comparing manhoods' and swooning over attractive men like Thancred (as she did in 1.0).
Either way, Eorzea is a very open place sexually. It's not "drowning in sin" as those of more self-proclaimed moral character might state, but they're definitely not prudes by any stretch. -
11-26-2016, 11:34 AMYrsa
Its unfortunate that these questions wont be addressed due to the teen rating of the game. I almost wish that it was a mature rating honestly. I'm mostly interested in cross breeding though ... they exist? Where or when did you see them existing? I am very curious!!
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11-26-2016, 01:33 PMBloodyHow far are you in the main story quest? You will/have met Hilda, a halfbreed of Hyur and Elezen, in the Heavensward 3.0 storyline.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrsa
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11-26-2016, 01:44 PMBelhi
Cross breeding seems generally possible. I suspect though that there would be both cultural issues tied to it as well as frankly medical ones. Even if a Lala got pregnant to one of the larger races for example, such a pregnancy would quite likely be potentially life threatening. This is already an issue in real life when small women have big children.
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11-26-2016, 02:14 PMYrsaOh yeah! I'm caught up with the story, but I forgot about her. Interesting... Since there has been a biracial character there must have been conversations about genes and who can mix and who cannot, because as Belhi mentioned,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody
That would be quite painful for a Lala. To think that there might be some dominant Lala gene that made all babies small if the mother is Lala. Yet if the Lala was the father, the shape of the child would be more mixed? LOL This is all speculation and me just thinking. Who the hell knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Belhi
Either way it would be cool to see more mixed NPCs. -
11-26-2016, 02:41 PMEnkidohI had to really back track through the forum, but I finally found the relevant statement from Koji-Fox on the subject, stating that mixed-race children were possible but extremely rare - it was done way back in 2011 on the old archived 1.0 forum:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yrsa
As shown by Hilda the Mongrel, mixed racial heritage is possible amongst the six races, it's just not very common (Hilda's case was her mother was a Midlander hyur who was employed as a servant for one of Ishgard's noble families, and her father was an Wildwood elezen nobleman - needless to say her mother was thrown out into the street as soon as his little 'indiscretion' had come to light. No doubt the same happened to a lot of those of mixed heritage sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernehalwes, on the old 1.0 forum
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11-26-2016, 08:10 PMAnnana
Also of note is the two men in the Wanderer's Palace Hard Mode quest. They were driven away from their home, not because they're gay, but because they're different races. Fits quite nicely with the tone of Hilda being a crossbreed and therefore shunned.
Eternal Bonding isn't something to point at as the simple defining thing either. It's well known that Adventurers are quirky to say the least. The general populace probably just wave off our interracial marriages as another oddity of the lifestyle. -
11-26-2016, 09:46 PMTheodric
Eorzea - and Hydaelyn as a whole - aren't particularly pleasant places to live in either. Especially when you consider the simple face that outside of settlements it's fairly easy for people to perish to all manner of horrible things ranging from the undead to bandits and everything else that qualifies as a threat. So interracial relationships are frowned upon very likely not because of something as simple as 'bigotry' and 'racism' but because there's a genuine risk of entire tribes, traditions and races dying out if sufficient levels of breeding aren't maintained.
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11-27-2016, 01:44 PMEnkidoh
That would only ring true though if within each race gender roles and sexuality were enforced along similar lines, which they are clearly not - as I mentioned before women are not bound to be 'barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen' raising the children, they can go off to war or go into politics, and even take another woman as their wife (as my character has done). This clearly shows that the birth rate does not seem to be negatively reflected by non traditional gender roles and sexuality within each race, making the 'no interracial relationships because it impact on the birth rate' arguement meaningless.
No, that is clearly a social construct - given that the Spoken races were all stated as being originally "tribes" in Eorzea's creation story, it's clear that in Eorzea's early history each race developed their own civilizations based along racial lines and thus the malign tumor of racism developed with it, and thus the social faux pas of mixed racial relationships, which has only continued to fester into the present day.
Actually, it is, there was at least one example of a same sex marriage between npcs shown in the game (or at least referred to) - during the first 'Rising' event in 2014, the Rising vendor npc, who was a blonde-haired Midlander woman dressed in Minfilia's old version 1.0 outfit, if the player selected 'Small Talk', she states that "her wife made the outfit for her" (paraphrased). This was just before the Ceremony of Eternal Bonding was added to the game if I remember rightly, so it basically showed then and there that same sex marriage is not just something for players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annana
As it is, the npcs during the Ceremony make no distinction if those being bonded are different or same sex or different races. Everyone is treated the same under the eyes of the Twelve. :) -
11-27-2016, 08:52 PMTheodric
To be fair very few modern games dare to touch upon any themes that suggest that open sexuality can be anything but something to praise and be tolerant of. Many of the same reasons cited for why interracial relationships throughout Hydaelyn are frowned upon are easily applicable to other aspects of open sexuality too. Unfortunately most settings end up having their hands tied when it comes to such themes because there's the risk of a major outcry and boycotts from those who seek to treat such decisions as an attack against their lifestyle in the real world rather than a design choice for a make believe setting with gritty themes.
Ultimately it's just something to be hand-waved. It's worth noting that, originally, the Ceremony of Eternal Bonding was cited as being limited to same gender pairings until there was an (understandable) outcry against such a limitation.
We know, for instance, that the Hotgo tribe has been largely wiped out by the Dotharl. Other Xaela tribes have been scattered and displaced, thus it is logical to assume that if they wish to continue existing and maintain their culture a priority and inclination towards open minded sexuality is likely to be a more of a hindrance than a help. Though that is, admittedly overthinking something that is likely to never be addressed or touched upon in anything but a negative light. -
11-27-2016, 09:27 PMLauront
PCs are rather irrelevant exceptional speshul snowflakes, who have no bearing on how the broader populations in the game function. Most of the women in roles of power are not there as a result of careers in politics, but due to their birth (the Sultana) or supernatural attributes (Kan-E-Senna.) So it "clearly" shows nothing of the sort. As Graeham said, the choice to reflect equal proportions in e.g. military groups, which is completely counter-factual given basic biology whether SJWs like it or not, is most likely the result of people who are permanently "offended" by any game taking a more realistic approach in that respect. I mean your character can have an appendage not usually found on her gender, but it would still make no difference as to whether such a thing existed in the setting...
This "social construct" POV is meaningless if said tribes were subjected to millennia of evolutionary pressures, and therefore effectively are separate races, as they indeed are. This would also mean interracial mixing could produce hybrids inferior to both parent on physiological and psychological grounds, which on top of that are then rejected by both parents' groups. Given the level of devastation endured by Eorzea, it can readily be assumed most of its groups are at low population levels. -
11-28-2016, 02:19 AMWhiteArchmageHowever, on the Sultana's case, she could have been forced to marry someone to act as the actual ruler of Ul-dah and being sidelined like many other such princesses or queens of our history. And it can be said that Kan-E-Senna was specifically chosen TO lead, seeing as the Elementals choose the padjals and padjals are normally in Gridania's government. Saying that they're "not there as a result of a career in politics" would completely invalidate their hypotethical male counterparts (the Sultan by the same accident of birth as the Sultana and the Elder Seedseer by the same reasons Kan-E is one) anyway. Merlwyb rose to power due to might.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauront
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11-28-2016, 04:52 AMCilia
Well, since nobody else wants to directly address the question and I've already done so to a lesser degree with the Au Ra...
If all you're looking for is validation on whether or not interracial couples are a thing: they are, but are seen as taboo. While men and women may hit on members of the opposite sex regardless of race, actual marriage and coupling between the two is rather rare. There are few documented instances of it in-game. Aside from Hilda, there are no known biracial characters (despite the problems Ishgardian nobility has with illegitimate children) and her mother and sire are both unknown. The quest givers for Wanderer's Palace HM are a homosexual Hyur / Miqo'te couple (ostracized not because of their sexuality, but again because interracial relationships are seen as taboo), and a Hyur (whose name escapes me) persistently hits on Momodi during one of the Postmoogle quests. If I recall correctly there's also a Roegadyn with two Lalafell children in the Gold Saucer who says his wife "gave him" them, though whether or not he sired those children is unknown (adoption is a thing).
Aside from a single half-elf (Hyur x Elezen), though, no half-breeds have been observed in-universe.
Of course, PCs can engage in interracial relationships all they like. It doesn't affect the in-game world, won't alter the story, and we can't have children so [Y] x [Z] interracial characters don't need to be modelled; besides, who would ostracize [a] legendary godslayer(s) because of their personal relationships? Not like the world doesn't literally hinge on us winning every time...
Things are about to get pretty damn raunchy, so hide-boxed for discretion.
If what you want to know is whether or not sexual intercourse is possible between every race, well... that's a big maybe.
Do not assume that their greater stature means the males of larger races have bigger penises than the males of the smaller races. While this is an easy assumption to make, it has no real merit; yes, in real life the larger the species the larger the penis tends to be, but this is only a tendency, not a hard and fast rule. I'm not going to look up specific examples but needless to say it varies. Just look at humans.
The same holds true of the vaginas of the females.
Now, back to the question: "Can [X Male] have sex with [Y Female]?" Like above, maybe. It depends on the size of the genitalia of the couple. Even accounting for variance, if it don't fit... it don't fit. The only alternative is to assume that Lalafell females have proportionally sized vaginas and no male has a penis too big for it, which... might make sex for non-Lalafell women a bit less than satisfying, if you know what I'm talking about. The inverse is also an alternative; all females have vaginas capable of accommodating the penis of every male, regardless of size. This would get really weird following the "greater stature = bigger penis size" algorithm (a female Lalafell's vagina could go all the way up to her throat, f'ex, which would raise way more questions than it answers) and also make sex unsatisfying for non-Roegadyn males.
As to why you'd ponder this aside from wanting to write ero fanfiction I have no idea, but there you go. I'm not a biologist though, so take that for what it's worth.
Anything else? -
11-28-2016, 06:35 AMFJeromeNot really. If gender was genuinely an issue in the game world then women would just be excluded from succession/selection, as with a lot of existing real-world monarchies and theocracies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauront
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11-28-2016, 11:22 PMAura_Shurifon
For Kan-E Senna, there's at least 2 males padjal that could have been "chosen" instead of her, E-Sumi Yan and O-App-Pesi. But they still took Kan-E as chief.
So no, she's not the chief because she was a padjal, she was the "best" among them, independantly of her gender. -
11-29-2016, 11:51 AMHinoto-no-Ryuji
And then, of course, there's Merlwyb, who leads Limsa entirely because of her own strength and capabilities. And Xaela tribes like the Borlaaq and the Dazkar. FFXIV is clearly a game that doesn't place any qualifiers on women in leadership roles, no matter what one may think about "basic biology".
Sexuality, of course, is an entirely different matter, and there are a bunch of good points raised throughout this thread. I'd hesitate to say those gosh-darned Ess-Jay-Dubyas are making the developers "afraid" of being conservative in such matters, though - surely it's just as plausible that they're legitimately open-minded, or figured that attitudes towards such things have been historically pretty fluid and decided to give their world an open-minded flavor in that regard? And while it's certainly true that populations under duress/decline tend to favor more conservative sexual and familial norms, for all that has been said about Eorzea/Hydaelyn being a nasty place to live, it's now been pretty stable for the better part of two millenia, and it's not like populations are scattered or endangered. Given the cosmopolitan nature of Eorzea's cultural makeup, I think it's plenty believable that a variety of different lifestyles would be accepted. -
11-30-2016, 11:43 PMLineageRazorThe same cutscenes that introduce us to Hilda also imply that these 'indiscretions' are regrettably common. Heck, even Count Fortemps has a bastard son, and he's presented in the game as an exceedingly noble man. It seems to be just an accepted part of being an Ishgardian nobleman, the assumption that they're gonna dally with the attractive serving wenches from time to time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Given that all nobles seem to be Elezen, and that the Hyur population of Ishgard are pretty much all commoners, it's odd that half breeds aren't more common. You'd think that the whole taboo of interracial couplings would make Hyur women all the more exotic and tempting for horny young Ishgardian noblemen. (The reverse gender situation would likely also be true - but I'd imagine that commoner women have a lot less power to say 'no' to avoid getting knocked up than the noblewomen would, so scandalous pregnancies would be less common among noblewomen than commoner women.) So, it's kind of puzzling that there aren't more racial combos around.
One explanation might be that these couplings are a lot more common than people like to admit, but the fertility rate is low when dealing with mixed races. Or, possibly, it's far more common for a mixed-race child to favor one parent's race over the other so strongly that they can easily pass as a pureblood, with obvious half-breeds like Hilda being a rare exception.
The introduction of Hilda was a bit aggravating, to be honest, and opens up a whole big ol' can of worms that could have been avoided, much like the case with Lilisette in FFXI, another one-of-a-kind half-breed (Hume/Elvaan - yes, another "half elf"). They've opened the door to the existence of half-breeds, and I hope that they don't go the way FFXI did and never touch on the topic again... What's worse, before Lilisette was introduced, FFXI actually had snippets of dialogue that implied that mixed-race breeding DID happen, but that the child was always the same race as the mother, which would have been a tidy solution to the issue. Lilisette threw that notion to the curb - and never provided an explanation why. -
12-01-2016, 01:38 AMRoclJust like my Pokemon games!Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
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12-01-2016, 02:09 AMtreuhavikBad Rocl!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocl
...I too have nothing to add to this discussion. -
12-01-2016, 04:34 AMKyran-Varlsen
Fantasy settings tend to by-pass real world biological issues with the mating of separate species just because Dungeons and Dragons + Lord of the Rings had half-elves. Lord of the Rings went in depth on the subject matter and the various "outcomes," but in Dungeons and Dragons it's a "well they are there" sort of thing.
I preferred the Pillars of Eternity route with lore specifying that the races are different species and therefore incompatible for mating purposes. It made sense and it tied up loose ends. This should be the default, and if you're ever going to introduce half-breeds then this should be thought out ahead of time. Especially with a setting that has as much sexual proclivity as Final Fantasy XIV, because I don't remember escorting courtesans to their clients in World of Warcraft. The Elder Scrolls series took care of this issue with a small paper written by a scientist called Notes on Racial Phylogeny. FFXIV should do something similar. -
12-01-2016, 08:58 AMCilia
It's generally considered an implicit rule that humans (Hyur) can interbreed with just about any fantasy race for... pretty obvious reasons I shouldn't need to explain. As long as they can be fairly identified as mammals, anyway.
For the record, while half-elves are the most common half-breed races in fiction thanks to them showing up in both D&D and The Lord of the Rings, half-orcs are about as common in the former and there's even the odd half-dwarf. There's even freaking half-dragons, man! If it's sapient, human shaped and close enough in size (or can assume a human form), and has a [splat] the humans (or human analogues) can probably have children with it. (Hell, there's a racist insult against Highlander Hyur involving telling them their mothers are Sea Wolf Roegadyn! Which, to speculate, could be true in some cases! Maybe!)
The rest is... well, up for debate. Lalafell seem unlikely given... physiology. I won't delve into the anatomical spiel again unless explicitly asked. -
12-01-2016, 09:40 AMKyran-Varlsen
I think it is up for debate if the default in any given fantasy setting is "separate species so not compatible" or "looks human so is compatible." I didn't mention half-orcs and others because of my 1000 character limit, which for new posters is egregious.
So based on evidence and insults, it seems Hyur may be compatible with Roegadyn as well as Elezan. Certainly besides size differences it can be said that the three are otherwise pretty similar in all other respects. There is a creepy Lalafell fetish among a few taller Eorzeans which I find unsettling for obvious reasons. Otherwise the only questions remaining would be Hyur comptability with Miqo'te and Au Ra as, unlike with Reogadyn and Elezan, there are more substantial differences between those groups. Both Miqo'te and Au Ra have tails and other non-human features which have no direct correlation to the Hyur body. So I would posit that a half-breed born of a Hyur/Miqo'te/Au Ra union would be less likely.
I also find it odd that there are so many fantasy settings where this type of issue keeps cropping up. If there are elves, then humans will find a way I suppose. Someone will find a way... -
12-02-2016, 04:06 AMJpec07You can actually get around that if you edit your post after the fact. It's a relic from when they were developing ARR--some of the threads got nasty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyran-Varlsen
Allow me to delve into biology/anatomy/physiology here for a moment. I'll try to keep this to what you'd hear in a high school biology/anatomy class. We can assume fairly easily that all of the humanoid races in the game are mammals, because all of the females in some fashion have breasts, and presumably nurse their young (with the only exception possibly being the Lalafel - though they do exhibit sexual attitudes, as highlighted in this thread, and we can assume that Lalafel women at least have nipples--else why would they wear tops on their small clothes and swimsuits?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyran-Varlsen
It comes down to a question of whether the races come from different evolutionary lines, or if they are closely-enough related to conceive, and for their offspring to be viable. If the races are genetically similar enough, and their means of conception, pregnancy, and parturition are compatible, then they should be able to viably breed.
As regards conception, the only three races that might have difficulty are Lalafel, Miqo'te, and Au Ra. The difficulty with Lalafel, as I stated above, is that they don't seem to have breasts with mammary glands, and so might be too evolutionarily different from the other races for offspring to be viable. They might be able to conceive, but the size restriction might prevent a biologically female Lalafel from being able to carry a multi-species fetus to term. The stout nature of their bodies suggests that baby Lalafel would be extremely small. A biologically male Lalafel could theoretically impregnate one of the other races with viable offspring, but there still remains the question of fetal viability.
With Miqo'te, it really depends on whether they came from the Hyur evolutionary path or whether they evolved from a different cat-like race--in other words, how feline are they? Female felines are induced ovulators, which means their bodies release ova during intercourse due to protrusions on the male's genitals (which is why cats have litters with often extremely varied offspring). If biologically female Miqo'te are also induced ovulators, then they would not be able to conceive by another race without some form of mechanical/magical assistance. Provided that, though, they could likely carry multi-species offspring to term (this would also suggest that Miqo'te could more easily bear multiple offspring per pregnancy, but to my knowledge we haven't seen lore on this either way). This would also explain why Miqo'te courtesans seem so common, because unprotected intercourse with a member of another species would rarely result in pregnancy.
The Au Ra are really the only odd eggs here--pun intended. With Au Ra, it depends on how reptilian they truly are. If they lay eggs, there is little chance that they could successfully breed with any of the other species (regardless of if it's a male or female Au Ra involved). If they give live birth, however, then even if they possess a cloaca instead of the typical humanoid urogenital system, they could likely conceive and carry a viable fetus to term.
I don't imagine Roegadyn, Hyur, or Elezen would have too much difficulty conceiving or bearing fetuses to term, but again, it all depends on anatomy, physiology, and genetics. I don't believe we've encountered pregnant NPCs before, either, so we don't know how it works.
https://media.giphy.com/media/IL1sMU...facebook_s.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Kyran-Varlsen
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12-02-2016, 08:32 AMKyran-Varlsen
Yes, I was alluding to that last saying.
The reason I did not bring up evolutionary connections was that I did not know how it would be affected by a world with magic, gods and magitek. I mean, the Miqo'te and Au Ra look very human - who is to say that they were not descended from humans who were altered by some magical phenomena to possess the traits of a cat or dragon? Or the possible product of Allagan splicing experiments - those people did make a moon to hold Bahamut after all so we can't rule out their ability to affect life as well. Magic, magic related phenomena and magic based technology act as veritable distortions of common realities by their very nature.
In short, because of the magical variables of the setting, we can only speculate as to the actual boundaries and limitations while it is up to the developers to set the rules.
Off-Topic:
Also, I imagine Miqo'te courtesans and dancers are more common because, well, they are sexy cat people. If you saw a human courtesan or dancer your first thought might be to feel sorry that she (or he) is in such a dismal occupation. With Miq'ote you know at the back of your mind that they are fantasy characters and so can be sexualized without feeling guilty or conflicted. While human women being forced into prostitution is alluded to it is not as blatant as with Miqo'te women who are regularly shoved into skimpy outfits and then go strutting about in cutscenes for our male/lesbian viewing pleasure. Also the developers probably had no spare time to make human dancers and so we have the same Miqo'te woman dancing all over Ul'dah. That said, there are plenty of allusions to human prostitution and female human prostitutes can be found at the Golden Bazaar with a nearby male human npc complaining about catching the rot from them.
Sorry for that rant and that it ended with crotch rot. But this does show that Miqo'te can't just sleep around willy-nilly without some risk. -
12-03-2016, 12:34 AMLineageRazorI'd say that the fact Lalafel women don't have breasts is a very poor indicator of whether they lactate or not. Many (in fact, almost all) mammals lactate from nipples that are pretty much flush with their torsos. The way that human breasts protrude from the torso the way that they do is actually a very unusual evolutionary development, and there's been a fair amount of scientific study on the topic of why they developed that way. (My favorite theory is that humans developed to be a semi-aquatic species, which helps to explain our lack of body hair, as well; ancient humans would spend a lot of time in rivers and shallow lakes to avoid predators, and the fatty breasts located high on the torso helped mothers to nurse their young while mostly submerged. But I digress.) Lack of visible breasts is not a good measure for whether a species has mammary glands, and I think it's fairly certain that Lalafel are as mammalian as any of the other races.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpec07
Other biological factors, size especially, could make Lalafel cross-breeds unlikely, though, this is certainly true!
As for Mi'qote and Au Ra, I take the fact that they are counted among the "spoken" races (e.g., not Beastmen) to indicate that there's a deeper commonality among them than simple outward appearance. I think that they are all the same species, and simply show a great deal of genetic diversity, similar to how chihuahuas and timber wolves are both Canis Lupis, and cabbage and broccoli are both Brassica Oleracea. Basically, they may have tails and horns/ears, but they're still humans with bits that resemble parts from other animals, rather than non-humans that happen to look predominantly human. I'd say that all aspects of Mi'qote and Au Ra should be considered "human unless directly stated otherwise" - so unless the game specifically says that Au Ra lay eggs, I think it's pretty unlikely to be true! (Not to mention the can of worms you open by referring to Au Ra as reptiles in the first place, when there seems to be a raging debate as to whether they are dragons or demons - do demons lay eggs???)
This is more of a meta explanation - choosing a "less human" race because it's less controversial to objectify a clearly-fantastical race (and, on the other end of the spectrum, also because they appeal to a significantly large demographic due to being more exotic than ordinary human women) explains why the producers of the game did it, but does not really contribute to in-game lore: What Eorzean reasons do Mi'qote have for gravitating to that profession?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyran-Varlsen
And, to be fair, it may not even be the case that this is true. Aside from the all-Mi'qote dancers on the Ruby Road Exchange in Ul'dah, there seems to be a pretty even mixture of races. All kinds of women are in the employ of Gegeruju - even a Lalafel is among the dancers on the docks near Hidden Falls. In the Gold Saucer, while the scantily-clad hosteses may not, strictly speaking, be courtesans, they're certainly there to be eye candy - and also include a mix of all races. -
12-04-2016, 12:08 AMKyran-VarlsenI agree with your assessment that Au Ra are clearly mammals and likely don't lay eggs (all platypus analogies aside). That said, a common evolutionary point for all the Spoken races would certainly solve the quandary of why interbreeding is possible among some of them. Though the possible creation by gods or magical experimentation may be just as likely in a fantastical setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
The Gold Saucer came much later in the game's development so I would factor that the developers had more time to pay attention to such details as opposed to just copy-pasting the same Miqo'te. As for the employ of Master Gegeruju I did not notice any Lalafel dancers among his employees so I may have to check back later. And sorry for the meta-explanation, I'll try to stick to lore based speculation hence-forth.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
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12-06-2016, 11:02 PMLineageRazorHonestly, given that Gegeruju is a Lalafell himself, I'm a bit surprised that there aren't MORE Lalafel gals in his employ. I guess he's got a fetish for other races? But, yeah, there's definitely a Lala dancer among the NPCs on the Hidden Falls docks. I became well acquainted with all of them, during the time I spent trying to catch that damn Bombardfish! XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Kyran-Varlsen
And no need to apologize. Even if it doesn't precisely qualify as "lore", the meta stuff is still interesting and worth talking about! -
12-07-2016, 09:42 AMKyran-VarlsenAlright thanks. Still, sexual fetish considerations aside, I don't think we have much more to go on in speculating possible cross-species compatibility when it comes to conception. I would not rule out that the developers may introduce a new race in the next expansion if it is thought that this will bring in new players. With said race introduced maybe new backstory on possible conception combinations will be considered. They could bring back the Viera (the bunny people) which originated in Final Fantasy 13 as a female only race. They were originally on the table for Heavensward where male Viera would have been included but the Au Ra won out in the end. Though I think the Guado from Final Fantasy X would be better as the Viera are too similar to the Miqo'te and Au Ra. Lest we forget, the Guado bore many similarities to the Elezan and did also produce a hybrid in the form of the character Seymour. Or we could just make do with a revamped version of the Aegyl, bird people from Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings, though they would need to have their wings clipped to fit in normal armor and perhaps add feathers across more portions of their bodies to make them distinct from Hyur.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
With the Guado we can get a humanoid that is distinct enough from the Hyur, who are already almost copied by the Miqo'te and Au Ra, while only slightly infringing on Elezan features. They certainly don't need to be as tall as the Elezan, those Ishgardian knights we fight alongside are hulking warriors indeed compared to a small hyur like my own character. -
12-07-2016, 09:58 AMWhiteArchmage
Pssst, the Viera in XII were never female-only lorewise, they were female-only in the sense that we only see females but their society is actually very segregated to the point that males and females live in separate villages and only get together to mate. Meta-wise, we only see female viera because...well, bunny girls = boner money.
Yoshi-P already confirmed no new races for Stormblood, but since the demand for playable Viera is pretty overwhelming AND they already have concept art, they could change their minds for 5.0 given enough support. -
12-07-2016, 10:27 AMKyran-VarlsenOh, well that is certainly news to consider. I would never have known that male Viera existed due to how torpid the story telling in XIII was. Though I do hope the developers find a way to streamline patch 2.55 content before they add a new race into the mix for new players. Heavensward was prepared for veteran level 50 players to start their new journey at lvl 50. Since this is certainly no longer the case because new players will often jump into HW content already at lvl 54 or 55 then they should do what World of Warcraft did and ensure dynamic zone leveling tailored to each player so that players are never fighting lower level enemies for long. More accessible gear for higher level players would also be appreciated. Maybe a new addition to the Smith system?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage
As for the Viera, I just feel like they don't bring anything new to the table. perhaps if they make them as tall as Elezan with less Hyurian characteristics than say the Miqo'te or the Au Ra it will fit better into the game's more neatly. -
12-07-2016, 11:51 AMMysteltain
I'd rather not have Viera in the game, as well. This game already borrows from FFXI's races (in terms of general forms), barring the Au'ra, as far as I know. I never played the game, myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Although, speaking of Au'ra, do we know when their horns and scales develop? Because if they begin to develop to some extent in the womb, then I would imagine that female Au'ra would have specifically evolved to be able to birth horned and scaled children without undue harm being caused to them during labor (beyond the pains of giving birth, to begin with). As such, I'd have a hard time believing that a female of any other race could bear a child with a male Au'ra without having severe complications. -
12-07-2016, 12:50 PMPArcherConsidering scales are actually just specialized skin cells, its likely they're there before birth; just softer and smaller until they get older.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mysteltain
The horns are probably acquired like many other animals that have them; they start out as small, hard "bumps" on the skull and grow as they mature. I'm 99% sure there as a dev post about the horns being able to heal/regrow if damaged, so they could also just be another type of scale that grows over time (which would start out small and soft and harden over time)
Other big problem with anything X Au Ra/Mi'qote is their tails...this probably prevents crossbreeding in-and-of-itself... -
12-07-2016, 11:11 PMMeowingKittensNot necessarily. Even humans, early in embryonic development, have things such as tails and webbed fingers and toes; it's just that they're reabsorbed/destoyed later on for the vast majority of us. There are people out there who are legit born with webbed fingers or vestigal tails. I'd imagine in Eorzea, such cross bredding cases might cause issues, for example something like a Hyur being born with a small vestigal tail, or a manx-like Mi'qote. Not every major difference would automatically make every embyro non-viable, but I will say it's highly likely to be a factor, and I am of the mind the rareness of Hybrids in this universe isn't soley due to cultural taboo, and that chromosomal differences play a role as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
Take breeding of Donkeys and Horses, who have different numbers of chomosomes. A mule is easier to produce than a hinny, and they are differences between them, even though the only difference at the breeding level is the parent's genders. The different physiology in the various races of Hydaelyn might end up with similar results among potential offspring; not all embyos are viable, some pairings may have higher conception rates (and possibly related to parent's gender), and the final offspring may very well end up sterile.
To add to that, physical size between pairings may not even be a major factor in viability in and of itself. Take the Savannah cat; a serval is about twice the height and weight of the average domestic cat (maine coons and norwegian forest cats notwithstanding). The difficulties in breeding an F1 Savannah come not from sheer size difference, but from the different gestation periods (combined with pickiness with mates). So an offspring between a Roe and Lala may not necessarily be out of the realm of possibility by sheer size default, for example. -
12-12-2016, 09:50 AMMelichoir
If the species all have a common ancestor, and are a product of Divergent evolution or genetic manipulation, then it should be conceivable for all of them to interbreed. Whether that offspring is genetically viable to have children themselves is another question. It might be why interbreeding is rare or frowned upon.
In regards to 'size', thats going to boil down to aesthetics and function. Where a horse has a large part, that stems from the physical limitations of horses needing reach, while human size proportions are likely related to selective breeding. If they have a common ancestor, it's possible for all males to have similar sizing, unless some of it was bred out. Not likely, since we see Lalafell women pining over taller men. And same in reverse for lalafell men.
And with real world example of woman with dwarfism having children, it shouldnt be a stretch for lalafell to have the same potential with any taller race. Though magic assistance might be a necessity in childbirth -
06-23-2017, 08:38 AMKyran-Varlsen
I summon the fell powers of necromancy to raise this thread from the dead!
Also, there is apparently a partial-cannon confirmation that Au Ra and Hyur are able to interbreed. In the Ruby Sea we come across the legend of the Fisherman who befreind a Kojin, saved an Au Ra Raen Princess and then married her. An oral account of this union states that there had even been children who were noted to have almost no scales.
This does not answer the question of whether these half-breeds are fertile or not. However, if the line of Ruby Princesses is unbroken then it stands to reason that the stated offspring had yet more children whose decedents later became indistinguishable from normal Au Ra Raen.
While it is possible that this is just a tale among a given peoples, I believe that it is more likely in the context of the story woven before us that this was indeed true where it concerned the union and the offspring. The fertility of said children is still open to speculation however.
Also, if Hyur can interbreed with Elezan and Au Ra then can Elezan and Au Ra interbreed? Would seem odd otherwise, whatever biologically makes them compatible with human/hyur physiology should also connect across their own respective races. -
06-23-2017, 11:17 AMLego3400We also have what appears to be a Half Hyur half Roe hybrid as well in the MSQ, one of the returning minor Scions we see in the MSQ introduces himself has a "Halfbreed"Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyran-Varlsen
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06-23-2017, 12:06 PMKyran-VarlsenI thought when he (Arenvald) said that he was just referring to a mixed Hyurian heritage. I didn't read it as Arenvald being anything other than a Hyurian Highlander. It was quick and I might have glossed over the text but that was my take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego3400
That said, I found it odd that he would bother to identify as half Ala Mhigan as though it where something people should be on notice about. Maybe something was lost in translation? Half-breed has negative connotations in English but maybe the Japanese transcript was held in a different light.
Oh wait, here it is - he is half Garlean with his mother being Ala Mhigan. Considering standard Garlean "policies" towards civilian populations I think it a small chance that the union between his parents was a.... happy one:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ean-half-breed
I can see now why he would broach the matter in a negative manner... Truly FF14 does have it's dark moment amidst its lighter tones.