roulette worry/bloat

I've been having a thought and unfortunately its been going through my mind with how the roulettes have been handled throughout HW that we are just going to get a ridiculous amount of them come Stormblood and people both new/old are going to be overwhelmed and unable to do dailys in any given day/week without having a decent amount of free time available(more prevalent with relic steps etc.) .

If use HW as example 3.0 had :

• Expert
• 50
• lving
• trials
• Main Scenario
• Guildhests
• Frontline

3.1 added 60 roulette with 3.2 mentor roulette. thats just dailys you still have Weekly CT, Khloe's books, possisble VA series weekly, beast tribes, raid nm drops, sav drops if appliacable and any weekly relic there is or will be in future.

With stormblood they quite possibly add at least 1 new roulette, there will be a weekly 24 man drop as per usual, and while there should never be an issue of a person capping tomestones each week its getting to a point that maybe merging roulettes be a better option than having so many and lets not forget how bad expert roulette is with just 2 dungs every patch while they may up it for stormblood there is no certainty that they will yet.

Here is what i have come up with so far:

• Expert (all lv 70 dungs bonus gives enough that no matter what can completely cap in 5 days as it is now)
• 'Fun' dungeon ( all 50 and 60 dungeons increased reward a little to make it little more desirable)
• lving dungeon (leave as is)
• Main scenario ( add in all dungs in MS at 50/60/70 with increased reward try to populate it a bit more for people who may not skip)
• Trials ( include Gildhests and story primals, buff reward add seals reward)
• Frontline (pvp can't really change it :p )
• Mentor ( include basic coils, increase reward to 50)

Theres ofc going to be more currency bloat but 1 thing at a time :p

Could snip it down to 5 roulettes

Lv70 dungeons
Lv15-69 dungeons
Trials
Frontlines
Mentor

Main scenario would have to be merged into Trials because it's 8-player which is why those two dungeons were separated from all other dungeon roulettes. Eh, so hard to fit them anywhere. If we can get squadron AI ready for castrum and praetorum, we can finally let people clear them with NPC help and remove them from any roulettes.

Even better so long as rewards equal to each roulette evenly so people still want to do them all regardless and this allows more freetime for other things in game ^^

you dont have to do all of them..lol

Granted you do not need to run them all but there are too many of them for very little point expert is just 2 Why? same with main scenario, guildhests are underused merging it into trials could populate them more so long as the reward is there it will be done atm these 3 roulettes are atm taking up space they do not need to. Also if you were to direct new players to try do 8 roulettes or 7 without mentor 6 without guildhests which pointless to 60 hence its decline since ARR, its a bit daunting to them and you would tell them which be best for them for gear/time Expert>60>lving>50>Pvp>MS with this it shows why theres such a huge decline in certain roulettes to even question their existence and why can they not be combined. Reason why merging all top lv dungs into 1 roulette is to not have a repeat of the expert roulette we have had for HW.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Here is what i have come up with so far:

• Expert (all lv 70 dungs bonus gives enough that no matter what can completely cap in 5 days as it is now)
• 'Fun' dungeon ( all 50 and 60 dungeons increased reward a little to make it little more desirable)
• lving dungeon (leave as is)
• Main scenario ( add in all dungs in MS at 50/60/70 with increased reward try to populate it a bit more for people who may not skip)
• Trials ( include Gildhests and story primals, buff reward add seals reward)
• Frontline (pvp can't really change it :p )
• Mentor ( include basic coils, increase reward to 50)

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This is honestly probably what i could see happening, except for the merger of level 50 and 60 dungeons.. Those are going to probably remain their own roulettes due to how squeenix has the games setup. When you get to cap, they steadily release dungeons every patch for that level. Level 50 roulette probably has almost as many dungeons as the leveling roulette, if not more, considering back then they were releasing three dungeons with every patch instead of the two we got with heavensward.. So I can still see them keeping it seperate..

You've gotta remember, the whole purpose of the roulette is to fill the spots in parties that NEED to be filled. So if they lump ALL the lv 50 dungeons, and ALL the lv 60 dungeons together, it could take much much longer for anyone trying to do a dungeon of either level to get their party filled.. Which sortof defeats the whole point of the roulettes..

Aside from the addition of a lv 70 roulette, I dont see much changing from our current formula. And as someone else said.. You dont HAVE to do all of the roulettes every day. They're there for different reasons.. Leveling roulette for if you're leveling a class/job. Guildhest roulette for when you're leveling a class job, and all you have is leveling roulette :D

If you want to cut down on bloat, not trying to do EVERYTHING every day is a good first step. :P

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

-all dem words-

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There's a reason for keeping them seperate, though. Trial roulette isnt unlocked until level 50. So lumping it together with guildhests would mean that players leveling up their lower level classes would be unable to do the guildhest roulette (which is slightly helpful when you're on a low level class as everything except leveling roulette and guildhest roulette are locked until lv 50)

Expert roulette exists so that the two newest bit of content are not dead on arrival. They want to ensure that people are running the new content, every single day, so that people trying to get into them to progress their story are guaranteed to have their party filled, in a timely manner. So this is done by keeping the newest content seperate, and giving it the best rewards. The whole point of the roulettes is to funnel people into parties that need to be filled.

It's not what you're asking, but doing everything everyday will just burn you out no matter how many there are.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Main scenario would have to be merged into Trials because it's 8-player which is why those two dungeons were separated from all other dungeon roulettes.

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That's incorrect - they can put 8 player instances into an otherwise 4 player roulette, as guildhests have shown. The level 40 guildhest is a 8 man instance, whereas all other guildhests are 4 and you "can" get the 8 one on your roulette.

So a limitation seems unlikely. It probably has to do more with reward balancing or...something. Honestly, I don't get it.

I actually had a similar idea a few weeks ago, except I decided to shuffle all non-EX dungeons into 'story dungeons' and 'optional dungeons' instead, and both would basically be treated as a mix of leveling/50/60 roulette in terms of rewards.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...54#post3899754

(I also proposed a complete overhaul to the two Main Scenario Roulette dungeons to be friendlier to new players without connections.)

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Originally Posted by Zojha

That's incorrect - they can put 8 player instances into an otherwise 4 player roulette, as guildhests have shown. The level 40 guildhest is a 8 man instance, whereas all other guildhests are 4 and you "can" get the 8 one on your roulette.

So a limitation seems unlikely. It probably has to do more with reward balancing or...something. Honestly, I don't get it.

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You will never get the 8-man in the roulette though (because it's not in the guildhest roulette) for the reason stated.

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Originally Posted by Aramina

You will never get the 8-man in the roulette though (because it's not in the guildhest roulette) for the reason stated.

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Mentor Roulette proves it is possible. Has 4 and 8 man duties in there, had about as many 8 mans as 4 mans in my 10 mentor roulettes so far.

Level 50 roulette will continue to exist no matter what for people who have not purchased the expansions yet. They really need to look at main scenario roulette going forward. whole roulette for only two dungeons seems a bit silly. Perhaps add ARF and Stormblood stuff to it (if there will be any). Yes I am slightly salty for ARF constantly appearing in my 60 roulette. But adjust the reward according and people will still do it.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Mentor Roulette proves it is possible.

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You can also get the 8-man instance in guildhest roulette because it is, in fact, in there.

Thing is there already are roulettes that make it so you do not enter an instance above the level you currently are trial roulette itself will not put you into ravana hm if your only 50 adding guildhests to it would lower the roulette unlock point to lv 10 rather than 50 and get rid of said guildhest roulette.

As for other points again they could be have deifferent requirements to do certain dungs if 50 + 60 were together you can only do 50 dungs in roulette till your at least 60 etc. And yes the point of roulettes is to populate content with people given rewards are adequate enough but with a 2nd expansion on its way do you think a enough people will keep a lv 70 roulette, lv 60 roulette, lv 50 roulette and lving roulette active enough for any players at those levels i believe it would actually be worse than is now especially if more PotD come out. it would be even worse if guildhest and main scenario roulettes were left to fester as they do.

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

you dont have to do all of them..lol

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^ this right here,

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Could snip it down to 5 roulettes

Lv70 dungeons
Lv15-69 dungeons
Trials
Frontlines
Mentor

Main scenario would have to be merged into Trials because it's 8-player which is why those two dungeons were separated from all other dungeon roulettes. Eh, so hard to fit them anywhere. If we can get squadron AI ready for castrum and praetorum, we can finally let people clear them with NPC help and remove them from any roulettes.

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Sometimes, I just like to spam the low-level dungeons, then there are times where I want to spam the higher-level dungeons. Putting them all into Lv15-69 would make me NOT do them, because I wouldn't always want to do dungeons under Lv50. Lv15-69 will make DPS queues even longer.

The only way I will accept it being Lv15-69 is if there was a guarantee that I WOULDN'T get the same dungeon twice in the same roulette for the day. I understand by doing this would reduce the number of people being matched up to those dungeons, but hey...

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Originally Posted by revonine

Level 50 roulette will continue to exist no matter what for people who have not purchased the expansions yet. They really need to look at main scenario roulette going forward. whole roulette for only two dungeons seems a bit silly. Perhaps add ARF and Stormblood stuff to it (if there will be any). Yes I am slightly salty for ARF constantly appearing in my 60 roulette. But adjust the reward according and people will still do it.

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I don't mind it if it pops as my first daily because of the Tome bonus and the music. Outside of that, no-tanks, especially since it syncs my gear :(

A merge of roulettes is a bad idea IMO, not everyone likes to be synced under 50 or under 60.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

So a limitation seems unlikely. It probably has to do more with reward balancing or...something. Honestly, I don't get it.

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Then they could just put Castrum and Praetorum into the lv50 roulette and increase the base tomes they pay out from 100 to 150, like ARF.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Then they could just put Castrum and Praetorum into the lv50 roulette and increase the base tomes they pay out from 100 to 150, like ARF.

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But why? I think the attracted audiance is a bit different and in both roulettes you get your queues.

All you'd get is:
More people dissatisfied for being thrown in castrum (double as long as average 50 dungeon minimum), than people happy.
Less poetics for those who want them (one roulette with 100 poetics gone), but yeah, they can spam the MSQ dungeons now.. sounds even more fun than spamming ARF.

There is no other resason than 'bloat' for getting rid of roulettes and only people who are unreasonable obsessed with completing all of them are complaining.

I stop doing roulettes that have annoying dungeons in them. I basically only do expert. Sometimes I'll just straight up que for the one dungeon i am hoping for. If there was a bunch of leveling dungeons where I'm more likely to run into inexperienced players i won't do it unless im in the mood for a possible slow run

Given the bonus you get from doing roulettes, I'd rather we had as many as possible. You don't have to do them all every day and the more there are, the more choice you have as to what bonuses/how you get them.

They're completely optional and having multiple options to choose from leads to less stagnation. Nobody needs to do all of them every single day of the week. I often only do a handful throughout the week and get the rest of my tomes through POTD.

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Originally Posted by Cinno

Aside from the addition of a lv 70 roulette, I dont see much changing from our current formula. And as someone else said.. You dont HAVE to do all of the roulettes every day. They're there for different reasons.. Leveling roulette for if you're leveling a class/job. Guildhest roulette for when you're leveling a class job, and all you have is leveling roulette :D

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No, it's a valid problem, worthy of concern. As folks in this thread have pointed out, you don't HAVE to do every Roulette... but the whole point of Roulettes is to attract players to help out who otherwise wouldn't bother with those dungeons. There's not enough players doing Leveling Roulette because they're leveling a job - there needs to be an infusion of players who AREN'T leveling jobs, as well, and the tomestone rewards and Wandering Tails credit are in there to encourage that. Unfortunately, as far as Tomestones go, the rewards for Leveling Roulette are lackluster - both Level 60 and Expert Roulette provide better. So any player that doesn't need Leveling Roulette for Wandering Tails probably isn't going to bother with it, and will choose Level 60 or Expert instead.

It's a pretty delicate balance, and while SE has made an effort to keep each Roulette attractive in one way or another (Need Poetics? Main Scenario or Level 50 Roulette. Need Lore or Scripture? Level 60 or Expert Roulette, along with Trial Roulette for a quick shot.), Some are already falling by the wayside (Leveling Roulette is pretty unattractive, now, and Guildhest Roulette is pretty much a lost cause). Adding another tier of Roulette isn't likely to make things any better. I'd guess, though, that Level 60 Roulette will become the source for Scripture Tomestones, just as Level 50 Roulette provides Poetics, so at the very least it won't be directly competing with the other Roulettes.

To be honest the only odd one here is main scenario, and those dungeons already cause many issues with watching cutscenes and newbies being left behind and whatnot, they should just make both dungeons solo instances and get rid of main scenario roulette, L50 roulette and L60 roulette should stay as they currently are.

They're called options. You're under no obligation to do any or all of them. Do them at your leisure. The more options to grind out the crappy currency in this currency grinding simulator they call an MMO the better.

I only do six roulettes daily, and only because I am currently doing the Umbrite step on an anima, otherwise I'd stick to Expert, Level 60 Dungeons, Trials and the occasional Mentor. As is the case, they're optional, or situational, whichever way you'd like to look at it. Personally, I feel they'll be too much if you attempt to rake in a lot of rewards, but guaranteed reward scales with time. RNG rewards can either take too long or a lot shorter.