Savage Difficulty Alliance Raids and Objective based PvP Battlegrounds

Hello everyone this is my first post on this forum, I only recently started playing this game and I hit level 60 on my first character around the release of patch 3.3 I decided to share my ideas of a few things I would like to see moving forward.

Savage Difficulty Alliance Raids.
For me the raids in this game are fun and challenging, I have cleared the first 3 floors of the Creator Alexander Savage with my static, and although I find it fun and challenging it doesn't really feel like a raid. Clearing out Crystal Towers and Void Ark and Weeping City has more of a raid feel to it, but the difficulty in there is very casual. You don't need to form a group or communicate alot with the people in your alliance, which is really a shame when you put alot of development effort into making these I think that the fights should be tuned up to Savage difficulty and should have some harder mechanics implemented, ofcourse you would still have the normal casual raid tier. Also this would fix the monotomy in building your gearset since at the moment you only have Tomestone Gear and Alexander Savage Gear at the highest item level. If this would be applied to the current raid tier (just as an example), you would have Tomestone Gear from Scriptures that you can upgrade in Alexander Creator + Alexander Creator Gear, but when the final tier of the Mhach Alliance Raids would be released, if you had Savage difficulty, you can either obtain i270 gear or items to upgrade i260 Gear from normal mode. This means that in order to clear it you would need for 3 statics to team up or it could also be something nice to progress together for large FCs.

Objective-based PvP Battlegrounds
PvP in this game is not really a big thing, when I try to qeue for PvP I have to wait a long time to get into a match, also the matches are not that fun, because the only objective is to kill the enemy team (The Feast), larger battlegrounds take a long time to qeue for and are for 72 players.
I would really like to see 8 man and 16 man objective-based pvp arenas that are fun and doesn't need a lot of players to qeue for it. Something like Capture the Flag or base capping, or even something where your team needs to assassinate a boss or call reinforcement. There are a lot of directions you can take it, but the premise is that I would like to see 8v8 and 16v16 Battleground in PvP.

Those are my thoughts on what I would really like to see and what I would think would make for enjoyable content!

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Originally Posted by MeliodasDanchou

Objective-based PvP Battlegrounds
I would really like to see 8 man and 16 man objective-based pvp arenas that are fun and doesn't need a lot of players to qeue for it. Something like Capture the Flag or base capping, or even something where your team needs to assassinate a boss or call reinforcement. There are a lot of directions you can take it, but the premise is that I would like to see 8v8 and 16v16 Battleground in PvP.

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Actually Frontlines is not 72 man only. It has 72 man and 24 man mode dynamically adjusted during queue. And it doesn't really take that long to pop most of the time.
Basically it's 8v8v8 or 24v24v24 - I believe there was a 16v16v16 mode as well but haven't seen that pop in forever. The most common is 24 man(8v8v8).

And Frontlines is objective based. Besides slaughter all others revolve around PvE objectives.
And yes PvP is not a mainstay of the game.

As PvP revolves around grand companies you get 3 teams fighting at the same time.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Actually Frontlines is not 72 man only. It has 72 man and 24 man mode dynamically adjusted during queue. And it doesn't really take that long to pop most of the time.
Basically it's 8v8v8 or 24v24v24 - I believe there was a 16v16v16 mode as well but haven't seen that pop in forever. The most common is 24 man(8v8v8).

And Frontlines is objective based. Besides slaughter all others revolve around PvE objectives.
And yes PvP is not a mainstay of the game.

As PvP revolves around grand companies you get 3 teams fighting at the same time.

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But 3teams is not fun 8vs8 or 16vs16 would be way better if its without gc restriction. Also while there are PvE objectives the best way to win is in every mode killing ppl you can just ignore objectives.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

But 3teams is not fun 8vs8 or 16vs16 would be way better if its without gc restriction. Also while there are PvE objectives the best way to win is in every mode killing ppl you can just ignore objectives.

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Actually the best way to win in objective based modes is by doing objectives. Kills only give a few points vs objectives that give a lot(70 points for a small crystal vs a lot of kills to obtain the same).

And you do have 8v8 feast that is without GC restrictions - but true no objectives.

As for the fun of 8v8v8 vs 8v8 arguable. Depends on the level of communication and strats employed etc...

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Originally Posted by ruskie

Actually the best way to win in objective based modes is by doing objectives. Kills only give a few points vs objectives that give a lot(70 points for a small crystal vs a lot of kills to obtain the same).

And you do have 8v8 feast that is without GC restrictions - but true no objectives.

As for the fun of 8v8v8 vs 8v8 arguable. Depends on the level of communication and strats employed etc...

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Nope farming other players are more pts in the long run building up highs/fevers early will give a good advantage. Even in shatter with big ice you can just kill ppl who try to hit ice mind you not only gain dmg and pts from killing you make enemy lose pts too

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Nope farming other players are more pts in the long run building up highs/fevers early will give a good advantage.

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An advantage, yes. But if you don't use that advantage to fight to complete objectives, you're going to lose.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

An advantage, yes. But if you don't use that advantage to fight to complete objectives, you're going to lose.

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That's not entirely true - you "can" win on kills alone. I've seen that happen a few times, always with a premade at work. It doesn't seem a particularly safe strategy however and I'm pretty sure victories are more coincidental - the main objective seems to be farming the Hand of Mercy title.

As for Savage difficulty alliance fights, I'm just gonna chuckle. It's already quite a challenge to schedule 8 people together for Savage, I don't see 24 happening on any servers other than those with the biggest raiding scene, thus causing a bunch of transfers to those.

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Originally Posted by MeliodasDanchou

Savage Difficulty Alliance Raids.
For me the raids in this game are fun and challenging, I have cleared the first 3 floors of the Creator Alexander Savage with my static, and although I find it fun and challenging it doesn't really feel like a raid. Clearing out Crystal Towers and Void Ark and Weeping City has more of a raid feel to it, but the difficulty in there is very casual. You don't need to form a group or communicate alot with the people in your alliance, which is really a shame when you put alot of development effort into making these I think that the fights should be tuned up to Savage difficulty and should have some harder mechanics implemented, ofcourse you would still have the normal casual raid tier. Also this would fix the monotomy in building your gearset since at the moment you only have Tomestone Gear and Alexander Savage Gear at the highest item level. If this would be applied to the current raid tier (just as an example), you would have Tomestone Gear from Scriptures that you can upgrade in Alexander Creator + Alexander Creator Gear, but when the final tier of the Mhach Alliance Raids would be released, if you had Savage difficulty, you can either obtain i270 gear or items to upgrade i260 Gear from normal mode. This means that in order to clear it you would need for 3 statics to team up or it could also be something nice to progress together for large FCs.

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On paper it sounds nice, but it is easier said than done. This content will easily fall into making a large static category. Getting 24 people together with the same mind set as you in both strategy and compromise will come heavily into play and can become a big mess very easily. People will very likely not PUG this. People already have a hard time getting 8 dedicated players together for current raids. You also shouldn't make something on a hardcore level that requires a large FC or group of friends. It greatly alienates other people and does not motivate them to try the content.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

An advantage, yes. But if you don't use that advantage to fight to complete objectives, you're going to lose.

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Nope you can kill and ignore objectives as long as you are dedicated to farm both teams its one of the reasons why premades almost everytime win with moving and killing as a group you wont get sandwich. Dead enemies arent able to do any dmg or play objective. I remember at shatter release ppl complain about it being pve even tho my group won with mostly kills to get their mount.

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Nope you can kill and ignore objectives as long as you are dedicated to farm both teams its one of the reasons why premades almost everytime win with moving and killing as a group you wont get sandwich. Dead enemies arent able to do any dmg or play objective. I remember at shatter release ppl complain about it being pve even tho my group won with mostly kills to get their mount.

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Premades win almost every time because they're simply superior at killing and staying alive and PUGs can do much about it. Try that against 2 other premades and you'll lose.

Premades should never be used as an example of normal gameplay unless you're against other premades. Compare PUG vs. PUG and see if they can do the same thing.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Premades win almost every time because they're simply superior at killing and staying alive and PUGs can do much about it. Try that against 2 other premades and you'll lose.

Premades should never be used as an example of normal gameplay unless you're against other premades. Compare PUG vs. PUG and see if they can do the same thing.

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Hmm idk what that would change if your pugs are superior at killing or if your premade is superior at killing doesnt make a difference if your team is superior at killing you can win without the objectives easily in this game since objectives dont reward u as much as killing. Also even if there is a premade vs premade as soon as you are superior and getting highs/fevers the only thing that can stop your group is a sandwich. The premade vs premade argument doesnt work since the benefit of killing ppl will make the better team unstoppable cause of highs/fevers. "paintrain" is a thing. Most pug matches are decided by the "killing" factor.

No. If you have two or three nearly-equally skilled and organized parties clashing they will inadvertently cause each other to stalemate. Prevent any group from building up to many fevers/highs. As soon as one person gets a high they become a primary target and quickly killed by focus fire.

"Paintrains" only really occur when there is an extreme difference in organization levels i.e. a Premade 6-8 person premade vs 2 pugs and the Premade abuses the 3rd place multiplier for Adrenalin Surges so that they get a larger number of them.

Premades as you should very well know are mostly made up of organized dps and their pocket healer(s) which a nearly impossible for non-organized groups to kill.

Most Pug matches are not determined by kills but by the side that best grabbed objectives. You can see this by the score totals at the end of matches. Often the winning team is not the one with the most points gained from kills but the one with the least points lost to deaths.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

No. .

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Strange my own experience after 2500+ frontline (premade and pug) matches showed me the oppositem. If your team is good at killing and killing the right team at the right time you will win more likely than everything else. Also idk if 2 premades fight and someone gets high doesnt mean the high will die. More likely the that the high makes it easier to wipe out the other premade. Only mode where objective really mattered was secure.