question about combos

can you only execute combos by yourself or will you be able to cross-class combos with other party members? i realize se hasn't posted about combos yet and that will probably answer this question but just throwing it out there.

Well they're called "individual combos," leaving one to assume they're an individual endeavor.

Though they have said Battle Regimines will make a return.

As far as I've seen from the recently posted class action list, combos can only be executed from the same class. I'm not sure if two PGLs in a same party could make combos together.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Though they have said Battle Regimines will make a return.

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Yea, that's what I assume cross-class combos would be.

Another question: do combos only come with fries, or do we get a choice of side options?

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Originally Posted by Vyncent

Another question: do combos only come with fries, or do we get a choice of side options?

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I think you need to add 50 cents to switch items...

Combos are for an individual to execute and not multiple party members. Meaning that other classes can't add to, or interrupt, a combo you're performing. Also even if a combo's additional effect is resisted, as long as the combo triggering action hits the target, the combo will still be able to be chained together and won't be lost. For example if a combo's special effect is a "Stun", if the stun fails to take effect but your action connects, you can still continue to the next step of your combo.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Combos are for an individual to execute and not multiple party members. Meaning that other classes can't add to, or interrupt, a combo you're performing. Also even if a combo's additional effect is resisted, as long as the combo triggering action hits the target, the combo will still be able to be chained together and won't be lost. For example if a combo's special effect is a "Stun", if the stun fails to take effect but your action connects, you can still continue to the next step of your combo.

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thanks a lot for the response.

That is a bit rubbish, very anti-team work.

But it is annoying when others mess it up.

So, no real incentive to party, more solo friendly MMO mechanics.

Not too impressed myself.

Just bring back FF11 Skillchains or something. These untested systems are really becoming a burden on the game, having to relearn them every 6 months, revamp them every 2 months, and still they don't work well.

At this point, innovation in FFXIV is going to kill it slowly.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

So, no real incentive to party, more solo friendly MMO mechanics.

Not too impressed myself.

Just bring back FF11 Skillchains or something. These untested systems are really becoming a burden on the game, having to relearn them every 6 months, revamp them every 2 months, and still they don't work well.

At this point, innovation in FFXIV is going to kill it slowly.

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Long term plan.

Skillchains can coexist with individual combos. One system does not need to be selected from the two. They temporarily suspended BRs as it was an ok system at best, and with the drastic battle changes we're getting now, they wouldn't function properly. It's very likely we will get some sort of skillchain system that promotes teamwork in time.

The whole learning something new every 6 months thing is to be expected when playing an MMO going through a huge overhaul.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Combos are for an individual to execute and not multiple party members. Meaning that other classes can't add to, or interrupt, a combo you're performing. Also even if a combo's additional effect is resisted, as long as the combo triggering action hits the target, the combo will still be able to be chained together and won't be lost. For example if a combo's special effect is a "Stun", if the stun fails to take effect but your action connects, you can still continue to the next step of your combo.

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Wow, really? That's pretty lame, no offense to you. I thought the whole point was to incorporate some sort of party-wide mechanic to revamp/replace XI's skillchains or XIV's battle regimens. Please, please, please talk to the Dev's about ALSO reincluding battle regimens (or bringing back skillchains) with the release of "combos", as that mechanic is needed way more than some solo combo system.. We've already lost a ton of abilities/spells, man this patch is looking worse and worse each day.

Well just one more question, can different classes weapons skills combine to make a combo, like mrd ws1 with gladiator ws 3? or too much complex atm?

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Originally Posted by elreed

Well just one more question, can different classes weapons skills combine to make a combo, like mrd ws1 with gladiator ws 3? or too much complex atm?

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Nop. It already was stated at class revamp decription that self combos can only be performed with native WSs/spells of the class.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Long term plan.

Skillchains can coexist with individual combos. One system does not need to be selected from the two. They temporarily suspended BRs as it was an ok system at best, and with the drastic battle changes we're getting now, they wouldn't function properly. It's very likely we will get some sort of skillchain system that promotes teamwork in time.

The whole learning something new every 6 months thing is to be expected when playing an MMO going through a huge overhaul.

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I agree, but why are we getting overhauls to the same systems over and over again?

Where is the consistency?

Why not do it right the first time?

I am not being sarcastic, I sincerely am wondering why they have overhauled several systems more than twice already. XP/SP battle regimens, stat point allocation, levequests,

They aren't "tweaking" these systems, they have overhauled them multiple times. I feel like there is a lack of direction, a lack of what they want the game to be in the end, and thus are revising core systems over and over again because they don't have a clear picture of where they want the game.

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Originally Posted by Exni

Wow, really? That's pretty lame, no offense to you. I thought the whole point was to incorporate some sort of party-wide mechanic to revamp/replace XI's skillchains or XIV's battle regimens. Please, please, please talk to the Dev's about ALSO reincluding battle regimens (or bringing back skillchains) with the release of "combos", as that mechanic is needed way more than some solo combo system.. We've already lost a ton of abilities/spells, man this patch is looking worse and worse each day.

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Silly that you expected that, considering they never once announced it to be the replacement for BRs, and always mentioned it as individual combos. The point never was to make them like skillchains. This system is something in and of itself. BR replacement is to come in the future, post 1.21 based on what Yoshi said when they removed it with 1.19. You have only yourself to blame for having misplaced expectations, as all of these things have been addressed.

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Originally Posted by elreed

Well just one more question, can different classes weapons skills combine to make a combo, like mrd ws1 with gladiator ws 3? or too much complex atm?

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Individual combos are meant as incentive to promote the use of native skills. Positive reinforcement. Further adds to class identity. They are also meant to promote strategic and dynamic play rather than simply standing still and 2/10 skills.

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Also, any notion that implementation of individual combos removes/reduces incentive to party is a wild accusation at best. Especially with classes becoming further specialized and unique, each class has something to bring to the party.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I agree, but why are we getting overhauls to the same systems over and over again?

Where is the consistency?

Why not do it right the first time?

I am not being sarcastic, I sincerely am wondering why they have overhauled several systems more than twice already. XP/SP battle regimens, stat point allocation, levequests,

They aren't "tweaking" these systems, they have overhauled them multiple times. I feel like there is a lack of direction, a lack of what they want the game to be in the end, and thus are revising core systems over and over again because they don't have a clear picture of where they want the game.

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XP/SP was overhauled once, back I believe with 1.15 when they changed it to be a static amount based on kill rather than on skill use. Everything since then has been a tweak, or a change as a side-effect due to the overhaul of another major system.

Battle Regimens simply got removed, never tweaked. It is going to be re implemented as something else but was suspended temporarily as the BR system would have to undergo drastic changes alongside 1.19s large changes to stats and attribute changes. The BR system, as it was, was not worth all the effort it would require just to have it continue to function the same. A better system was needed, and a better system we will get.

Stat-point allocation is in the process of undergoing a single overhaul. With 1.19 we got the new system, and with 1.20 we will get an update to it in the form of bonus points we can allocate. A single, two-part overhaul. It can't be counted as two, considering they announced that it would be done in 2 parts before 1.19 went live.

Levequests got overhauled with 1.19. I can understand the misconception here though, considering they were the prime content of the game for so long and thus their rewards had to be adjusted each and every time a major system in the game went through an overhaul or adjustment of their own. They were never overhauled into a new system, however, until 1.19.

Overhauls are happening once. However these systems that come together to make this game are so intertwined that you cannot simply overhaul one and leave everything else as is. This is why it feels like every system is undergoing an overhaul multiple times whereas in fact it is one time for each system while other systems get adjusted to work well with it. Those are tweaks.

Their direction for the game is very clear to them. They even have the plot written out to the end, as Yoshi-P already stated. Version 2.0 has already been built, and has been worked on for months now. Considering 2.0 is what this game will become, our destination, their image must already be clear. I've had a good idea of the direction ever since they first announced the job system and with each and every update my understanding has been solidified. I feel like I know very well where the game is headed, with the bitter and the better.

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Why not do it right the first time?

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I can answer that question immediately.

Because the player base dosen't know what the game needs. Simple at that. SE's listening to the players, trying to find the medium between what's good by them, and what's good for the game as a whole. For a game that's heavily flopped, that's going to take some trial an error.

In fact, MMO's in general are a process of trial and error, we're just being part of the more rudimentary works this time around because the initial release was so horrifyingly bad.

The community shouted for major change, then asked for more job uniqueness, then when the classes started being narrowed down to emphasis their uniqueness everyone cried. "OMG WHERE'S MY VERSATILITY!?"

The bipolar playerbase is just as much at fault here as the developers are for overcompensation on demands. And several systems are going to get revamped multiple times until the equilibrium is reached.

I like the combo system. No, it is NOT the replacement for Battle Regimine, it's already been said that Battle Regimine revamps will be something different and separate.

The class revamps have been in the pipeline for quite a while and I'm in favor of the limitations on mages, actually, as games tend to pile them on with a bunch of unnecessary spells. I'd rather them start scarce and build it back up in a way that remains engaging and useful at all tiers of play.



I'm beginning to think that this divide between the player base is riding on that every single issue with this game will be solved by 2.0, which isn't realistic. MMO's evolve over time. There is an incredible amount of work that needs to be done on this game still, and not everything is going to look great when the fixes first roll in.

Honestly, let's just roll with the punches and see how this all works out.

So, are people just going to be running around monsters the whole time doing combos...? A. That would be insane in a full-party; 8 people running in circles around a mob. B. If say a MRD steals hate at the end of his combo and redirects the mob, wouldn't it mess up everyone else's combo? C. What monsters last more than 10-15 seconds in a party to do a combo? D. Will combos be necessary to maximize damage? Will I be required to combo?

I am definitely one of those people who takes the 'wait-and-see' approach but I am pretty worried about how this will impact the game.

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

So, are people just going to be running around monsters the whole time doing combos...? A. That would be insane in a full-party; 8 people running in circles around a mob. B. If say a MRD steals hate at the end of his combo and redirects the mob, wouldn't it mess up everyone else's combo? C. What monsters last more than 10-15 seconds in a party to do a combo? D. Will combos be necessary to maximize damage? Will I be required to combo?

I am definitely one of those people who takes the 'wait-and-see' approach but I am pretty worried about how this will impact the game.

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Ifrit, Ogre, Batraal, 1000 maws bosses, almost all ground NMs, especially the Lv. 50 ones. Adding this type of stuff is going to make the longer encounters much more engaging.

And it doesn't seem like anyone is actually going to be running in a circle. The position changes are usually subtle, not going directly from front to back in one step. Moving from the front to the back every time you hit 3000 tp doesn't sound like it will be too stressful...

Another thing I think many have overlooked is the fact that while enfeebling through casting was widely cut back, enfeebling through WS combos was increased dramatically. This makes each melee class have it's own unique strong point, be it stun, slow, blind, bind, whatever. Assuming that Arcanist(or some DoM) is going to be released within the next 18 months with a wide variety of AoE debuffs, this sounds like a really interesting way to combine damage with debuffs going forward.

They failed to do this in FFXI, adding a ton of filler WSes to the multi-shot, more frequented ones like penta thrust or rampage (I quit in 2009). I had like 12 weaponskills with debuffs and crappy damage that I never used because they consumed all my TP and it was hard to get it back. Now, with TP flowing as easily as it does and WSes only taking a portion of it, we can dish out blow after blow and that creates debuffs. This sounds a lot more fun to mel

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

So, no real incentive to party, more solo friendly MMO mechanics.

Not too impressed myself.

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This is only the first step. More cooperation-oriented battle tactics are coming in the future. There is far too much for it to all be implemented in one go.

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

So, are people just going to be running around monsters the whole time doing combos...? A. That would be insane in a full-party; 8 people running in circles around a mob. B. If say a MRD steals hate at the end of his combo and redirects the mob, wouldn't it mess up everyone else's combo?

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1. That's why you get people who know how to play and know how to properly manage hate.

2. Positioning only matters for the bonus effects. You can do a succesful 3-combo without moving your position at all, you just won't get the bonus. If the tradeoff of bonus for positioning is overall a benefit to the party, then that is the strategic decision you make for that particular battle.

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

C. What monsters last more than 10-15 seconds in a party to do a combo?

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Bosses, for one.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Silly that you expected that, considering they never once announced it to be the replacement for BRs, and always mentioned it as individual combos. The point never was to make them like skillchains. This system is something in and of itself. BR replacement is to come in the future, post 1.21 based on what Yoshi said when they removed it with 1.19. You have only yourself to blame for having misplaced expectations, as all of these things have been addressed.



Individual combos are meant as incentive to promote the use of native skills. Positive reinforcement. Further adds to class identity. They are also meant to promote strategic and dynamic play rather than simply standing still and 2/10 skills.

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Also, any notion that implementation of individual combos removes/reduces incentive to party is a wild accusation at best. Especially with classes becoming further specialized and unique, each class has something to bring to the party.

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But i still want to know if in the near future will we get any chance to combine combos with different classes ws, why do i ask this? well the main thing about this system is that you get the chance to become better at your role combining other ws and abbilities outside your class, the more classes you level up better the option to become a better player, correct me if im wrong.

So in a few words, i like that from the system and its been the main issue we had in the battle system, i didnt liked the lack of difference in a few classes because we had a excesive amount of skills from other classes at our disposal, i only used what i tought was needed and used most of the times my own class skills, now they are thinking giving a specific role to every class, but having cross class skills/ws improves a lot the battle mechanics and make everyone in some way unique at their play style.

I know that this kind of stuff makes the system more complex but would be a good thing having same original idea with those tweaks

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Originally Posted by elreed

But i still want to know if in the near future will we get any chance to combine combos with different classes ws, why do i ask this? well the main thing about this system is that you get the chance to become better at your role combining other ws and abbilities outside your class, the more classes you level up better the option to become a better player, correct me if im wrong.

So in a few words, i like that from the system and its been the main issue we had in the battle system, i didnt liked the lack of difference in a few classes because we had a excesive amount of skills from other classes at our disposal, i only used what i tought was needed and used most of the times my own class skills, now they are thinking giving a specific role to every class, but having cross class skills/ws improves a lot the battle mechanics and make everyone in some way unique at their play style.

I know that this kind of stuff makes the system more complex but would be a good thing having same original idea with those tweaks

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We can still cross-class. The problem with how it used to be was that having more classes at 50 in and of itself made up for a lot of how skilled a player was. No matter how awesome your strategic sense, timing and overall skill was, if you didn't have certain classes at certain ranks you were a deadweight in many scenarios.

With the changes of 1.20, having more classes leveled will be more about your utility as a player. They won't be necessary for you to play your class very well, but will give you an edge. How well you play will mainly be determined by how successful you are at pulling off the right combos at the right time, among other things.

I believe they've already said they'd like to make it so that combos can.. combo.. in the future. So a mage's combo followed by a warrior's might create an effect and some more damage after.

It was in an interview at some point, but isn't exactly guaranteed.

This dev teams ideas just keep getting worse.

I'll wait and see how this combo system works out, but from looking at the info we got it doesnt look very exciting.

Any word on when we can hope to see info on a new less clunky and more functional BR type system, or something similar to Skillchains/magic-chains to promote more teamwork and fun party play?

This dev team's ideas just keep getting better.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

I'll wait and see how this combo system works out, but from looking at the info we got it doesnt look very exciting.

Any word on when we can hope to see info on a new less clunky and more functional BR type system, or something similar to Skillchains/magic-chains to promote more teamwork and fun party play?

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I think the combo system looks promising and will be more fun and useful than a lot of people seem to think now. The party-combo stuff is in the works, but that's not coming until later and still subject to much change.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

So, no real incentive to party, more solo friendly MMO mechanics.

Not too impressed myself.

Just bring back FF11 Skillchains or something. These untested systems are really becoming a burden on the game, having to relearn them every 6 months, revamp them every 2 months, and still they don't work well.

At this point, innovation in FFXIV is going to kill it slowly.

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FFXI had skillchains. They rarely get used. FFXIV had battle regimens. They almost never got used. I'd rather have these combos than either of those things.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Combos are for an individual to execute and not multiple party members. Meaning that other classes can't add to, or interrupt, a combo you're performing. Also even if a combo's additional effect is resisted, as long as the combo triggering action hits the target, the combo will still be able to be chained together and won't be lost. For example if a combo's special effect is a "Stun", if the stun fails to take effect but your action connects, you can still continue to the next step of your combo.

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I think you need to talk to yoshi-p about this we want a type of BR that we can do as a team. Like in ffxi we thought the combo system would have been a skillchain mix with a new type of BR with a awesome cool look at the end of the skillchain just like ffxi. This is pretty much useless for us players who enjoy team work and like the idea of it.

Please add a type of skillchain system like ffxi that would work with ffxiv.

@Alhanelem: wrong in FFXIV we use BR for dungeon and doing NM and long battles short battle like leves and killing mobs that die quick was just pointless but everything else good to use it on.

In ffxi we did use skillchain a lot but it became something you only do by yourself like samurai and stuff but that was SE issue for doing that not the players.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I think you need to talk to yoshi-p about this we want a type of BR that we can do as a team. Like in ffxi we thought the combo system would have been a skillchain mix with a new type of BR with a awesome cool look at the end of the skillchain just like ffxi. This is pretty much useless for us players who enjoy team work and like the idea of it.

Please add a type of skillchain system like ffxi that would work with ffxiv.

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http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/e...jpg?1282626490

Seriously though, when you're gonna make baseless comments, at least speak for yourself.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I think the combo system looks promising and will be more fun and useful than a lot of people seem to think now. The party-combo stuff is in the works, but that's not coming until later and still subject to much change.

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While what you say is true about it being useful , yeah I agree it most likely will be, but I don't see if being any different from many other MMOs self combos (rotations in WoW etc) except for the focus on positional needs.

What I'd like to see is bulding up strong attacks as a team, I can combo solo in a multitude of singleplayer games, in a MMO i expect to get more teamwork related battles.

Co-op spell casting for example would be awesome, mage 1 starts casting "instert ancient magic/ultima/holy) and every other mage in the party can add their own magic into the spell before it fires off, creating a big dent in the target.

Why the upcoming combo system doesn't excite me? I'ts a very simple system, its a system thats been done a million times before and its just another word for "dps rotation", this isnt saying its a bad system to implement.

But will I welcome it? Yes anything that can add to our currently rather dull combat system is a good thing, I just hoped the focus on teamwork combos was the priority instead or that we at least could get some info on their plans for it.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

What I'd like to see is bulding up strong attacks as a team, I can combo solo in a multitude of singleplayer games, in a MMO i expect to get more teamwork related battles.

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Party-oriented battle mechanics will be implemented later, that is the plan.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

Why the upcoming combo system doesn't excite me? I'ts a very simple system, its a system thats been done a million times before and its just another word for "dps rotation", this isnt saying its a bad system to implement.

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They can't implement everything all in one patch. That's too much work. They gotta start somewhere. The battle system is slowly being iterated upon. You can see the progression we've had so far in 1.17 > 1.18 > 1.19 and the gradual adjustments to gameplay. Just be patient.

One misconception I'd like to stamp out now is the fact that these self-combos aren't a replacement for the previous battle regimen system. It would be best if you could look at them as an entirely new system.

Another thing I wanted to mention was the fact that the team is working on making it easy to visualize how to continue your combo. They're working to get it in by 1.20 but it's not a guarantee yet.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

One misconception I'd like to stamp out now is the fact that these self-combos aren't a replacement for the previous battle regimen system.

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So, they are a replacement for the battle regimen system?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

So, they are a replacement for the battle regimen system?

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whaa...... how............... wow.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

So, they are a replacement for the battle regimen system?

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Agree, Kiote. The way Bayohne wrote it makes me understand that the new combos are in fact a replacement for the battle regimen. If he is "stamping out" the "misconception" that "the self-combos AREN'T a replacement", it means they are indeed a replacement.

I do believe he meant the opposite though, as stated by his "entirely new system" affirmative.

Yours sincerely,
Valen

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Originally Posted by Kiote

So, they are a replacement for the battle regimen system?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

It would be best if you could look at them as an entirely new system.

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It would be best if you could look at them as an entirely new system.

http://files.sharenator.com/double_f...-89026-475.jpg

Some people on these forums are just incorrigible.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

So, they are a replacement for the battle regimen system?

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You may technically be correct in pointing out some less than ideal phrasing, but by referring to the self combos not being a replacement for the battle regimen system as a 'fact', Bayohne implies that it cannot be the 'misconception' mentioned.