Please don't limit undersized duties in the next expansion

I love the undersized duty button, some of the most fun I have in this game is running old content undersized with a few friends. But it sucks that we can't do it for all content, me and my friends would enjoy the challenge of taking on some of the heavensward content as a duo or trio but we simply can't do that.

So with the next expansion please don't limit the content we can do as an undersized group. Just allow it to be used on all content.

The 3.0 stuff is still current. They want people doing it the normal way without a carry.

My guess is that the 3.0 contents will probably have the undersized option when 4.0 is live.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

The 3.0 stuff is still current. They want people doing it the normal way without a carry.

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What carry?
What's the carry in doing a heavensward dungeon at min ilvl with a friend?
What's the carry in doing a heavensward dungeon alone at Level 60?
It's just additional options to have fun.

People always seem to oppose optional stuff...

The only reason against it that I see is perhaps longer queue times for other people. But that's not a good argument since you can't prove it.

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Originally Posted by Seyb

The only reason against it that I see is perhaps longer queue times for other people. But that's not a good argument since you can't prove it.

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SE can easily prove it.

And it's simple really if even 1 tank or healer undersized a 51-59 dungeon for relic quest or Tails that means they didn't do it normally and they very likely would have (99% for relic, not as much for Tails since there are other options) that queue is already longer for someone else even if it's just 5 seconds.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

SE can easily prove it.

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No, they can only make assumptions in the first place. They can look at their data later, but before it's implemented, they won't know for sure.
It could be that more DDs take the undersize route, thus lowering overall queue times (4 DDs tackle a dungeon together).
Also roulettes would still be relevant (and it shouldn't be possible to undersize them), the main purpose for doing dungeons for me.

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Originally Posted by Seyb

It could be that more DDs take the undersize route, thus lowering overall queue times (4 DDs tackle a dungeon together).

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That would be a meaningful statement if people can't change jobs.

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Originally Posted by Seyb

What carry?
What's the carry in doing a heavensward dungeon at min ilvl with a friend?
What's the carry in doing a heavensward dungeon alone at Level 60?
It's just additional options to have fun.

People always seem to oppose optional stuff...

The only reason against it that I see is perhaps longer queue times for other people. But that's not a good argument since you can't prove it.

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99,9% of people do this because they can't beat the content any other way.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

99,9% of people do this because they can't beat the content any other way.

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So separate undersized and unsynced options and only lock unsynced. I want to try more extreme challenges, I don't want to be forced to do so unsynced. Problem solved.

And if I can't do my stupid suicidal solo runs I'm not going to queue them to do in a full group anyway so the impact on DF is non existent. With the challenges they've added in POTD I think an undersized option for current content would be great, even with a sync (even with a min ilvl sync).

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Originally Posted by Seyb

What carry?
What's the carry in doing a heavensward dungeon at min ilvl with a friend?
What's the carry in doing a heavensward dungeon alone at Level 60?
It's just additional options to have fun.

People always seem to oppose optional stuff...

The only reason against it that I see is perhaps longer queue times for other people. But that's not a good argument since you can't prove it.

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Because the person never stated they wanted to do it as minIL only that they "wanted the fun of doing it undersized" and the answer given is logical, it's because SE doesn't want people doing current Expansion content in undersized parties with the potential of doing them unsynced. It's as simple as that. You are the one that added the "oh they want to do it minIL" aspect to it when the OP never said anything of the sort.

So the person you responded to is not responding to the idea of letting people at minIL do it with an undersized party but an undersized party doing it unsynced because when you go in as an undersized party it automatically sets you unsynced unless you check otherwise.

Cause ya, if people wanted to do undersized parties with current content and minIL, then let them try, it won't be easy and quite the challenge since you woudl be set to minIL but it's a definite no to making it where they could do the current Expansion content unsynced because not only would it just make players more lazy, but then you just create an opportunity for RMT to exploit to speed through current content to get to a point where they can take advantage of the market.

I don't see the problem with it. SE has already said they're looking into how you'll be able to take squadron members into dungeons with you and THAT will effect queue times more than anything else. This will just be a blip since you're more than likely going in with the very same people you would always go in with.

While I wouldn't mind having the undersized option unlocked for HW content, there is a work around for it. Just get a party together that satisfies the entry requirement, queue together, then have the people who are there just to get through the gate drop. Boom, undersized party made.

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Originally Posted by Seyb

The only reason against it that I see is perhaps longer queue times for other people. But that's not a good argument since you can't prove it.

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LOL, the proof is in the simple arithmetic .. and it's clearly a 'carry' when one player can solo content and 'carry' their friends, which is what you're describing.

I literally did this with a few friends just the past month so we could unlock the level 50 roulette for them and to work on relics/animas. All of them unsync'd, each took 10-20 minutes, finished them all in an evening.

While I do find it strange that a first-timer can run an old dungeon u sync'd and undersized, as long as the roulettes continue to keep valuable and relevant rewards, I don't see it causing harm as people will still have good reason to enter those instances. Wonderous Tails giving out a bonus for running with newbies on top of the already implemented bonus tomes and exp encourages it further.

HW content just won't see the option until at least 4.0, as it's still the current expansion.

I can only accept old content being able to be unsynced. In 3.0 it was 2.x content (with exceptions) & in 4.0 it will be both 2.x & 3.x (still with the exceptions). Allowing current content to be run in a similar way would lead to an imbalance, especially as ilevels increase towards the end of an expansion's cycle.

Why would letting me run in and kill myself uselessly on Sophia for fun with a couple of friends unbalance the game? :(

Why would letting me go and take photos of my pal Ravana without summoning the entire English-speaking population of my server to waste their time letting me enter unbalance the game?

The other day I had to run Gubal (lv59 version) and only two friends were on. We could easily destroy that place synced at minimum ilvl as a three, but we had to recruit some random stranger to come with us just to enter and then run it properly without fooling around. Why? The dungeons are all so easy. Let us mess around with them. No need to allow unsynced.

This entire problem is caused by having undersized paired with unsynced, which is a completely unnecessary restriction in the first place. I don't care if they keep unsynced locked but I'd love to mess around with undersized without waiting real life years. It has to be the easiest, laziest way to add extra content for insane people without actually requiring any additional work or rewards. Heck, keep it locked for a couple of patches if necessary. Still better than waiting for an entire expansion.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

The 3.0 stuff is still current. They want people doing it the normal way without a carry.

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It's not for a "carry" that people want to go in with less than 4.

I remember when I played WoW, my husband and I 2-manned as many dungeons as we could while we leveled and even managed a couple at level cap. It was done purely for the fun and challenge.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

It's not for a "carry" that people want to go in with less than 4.

I remember when I played WoW, my husband and I 2-manned as many dungeons as we could while we leveled and even managed a couple at level cap. It was done purely for the fun and challenge.

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if you want a challenge just do it synced or minimum item level, with current item levels your smaller party size means nothing if you are 3 times stronger what you should be for that fight.

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Originally Posted by RyuSaarva

if you want a challenge just do it synced or minimum item level, with current item levels your smaller party size means nothing if you are 3 times stronger what you should be for that fight.

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Synced is super easy...

Now, synced and with less than 4? Maybe we'd finally get a challenge.

I don't see why someone would be against this.

You can already do this if you just get some people to come into current content with you and then leave as soon as you are in. This is just removing the middle man.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You can already do this if you just get some people to come into current content with you and then leave as soon as you are in. This is just removing the middle man.

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That's how you do things "undersized". But the undersize party option for most people is really the unsyncked button.

I would support full access to undersize duties. I don't support unsyncking current major version content. Undersizing and unsyncking should be separate options.

I would not mind either way about allowing "Undersized" 4.0 content. I certainly hope however that once 4.0 is out, 3.0 will be able to be done "undersized"/

As far as I know, the pattern is to be able to undersize whatever content that isn't current, so when 4.0 hits, 4.0+ content will not be undersize-able, while 3.5 and below content will be undersize-able.

That's the pattern, but I think the pattern could be improved at no detriment to anyone with the suggestion :)

I get that people don't want undersized+unsynced to undermine their achievements with teams of 5 geared SMNs selling carries through the latest content (or whatever) but the topic specifically asks for 'undersized' not 'unsynced' so that's not the issue here. And if current content can easily be completed by fewer members even when synced, perhaps the difficulty should be tuned up very slightly. I was personally a bit underwhelmed when my group of ultra-casuals 3-manned Antitower on release with mediocre gear after someone dropped out at the start.

Heck, if nothing else I'd appreciate being able to go in and watch the cutscenes before fights without knowing I'm holding up 7 other members anxious to start their pull by doing so. I know I can go back and watch them again later but it sort of ruins the flow of the game.