How did Xande defeat the Dragon King, Bahamut?

I read up on Tiamat and Bahamut lore and I guess the Allag were able to revive Xande to help them defeat Bahamut and were successful? How could someone like the ST final boss beat someone such as Bahamut?

Omega Weapon Ultima Weapon Ultimate Tag Team!!!

My serious answer, though, is that the real Bahamut wasn't just out to defeat Xande, he was trying to protect his people, both dragons and humans. Xande didn't have those same concerns so he could go all-out while Bahamut, as powerful as he was, couldn't without killing the people he was trying to save.

Isn't the primal Bahamut stronger than the original?

According to the Lore book, by summoning masses of Voidsent into vessels through his covenant with the Cloud of Darkness. Fallen soldiers were reanimated by voidsent possession, an endless army of ashkin at last overwhelming the Primal Dreadwyrm.

I would not underestimate the power of Xande, but we have to consider which Bahamut we're talking about? The real/ original one or the Primal?

The original Bahamut may have been the strongest of the 7 brood, considering that his death was what convinced everyone to summon their respective Eikons to defend against Allagan incursion.

The lore book says that it was the Voidsent army (via CoD covenant) that was that main reason that Bahamut Primal was eventually captured. With the Voidsent actively possessing Meracydians and turning them into undead thralls to fight him + the resulting lack of crystal and prayer that caused eventually weakened Bahamut Primal enough to be defeated by Omega

Myahele makes the semantic point - which Bahamut went down how.

The latter is easier; the Ascians manipulated Tiamat into escalating the war and setting the stage for the next Calamity. Once she'd taken the bait, they assisted Allag with capturing the primal shade she'd summoned. The minions of the Cloud of Darkness and the huge technological advancements of the Aetherochemical Research Facility (Ultima and Omega especially) finally got the job done. Great power can be whittled away if you have the resources for attrition.

The former, the true Bahamut, is a bit harder to pin down, for the tale lumps the fall of Bahamut in with the fall of the Meracydian Horde in general, at the hands of chimerical abominations of Allag. Which? Take your pick, I guess. All of them? Notice, though, that the book gives heavy of accolades to the performance of the mechahydra (Kaliya) with respect to that phase of the campaign. If Kaliya was fit to guard Dalamud's control room, I'd imagine they fared quite well in the battle against him.

Now that Omega is about to be reactivated, perhaps we'll find out how it was used to contain Bahamut and the Warring Triad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rjspencer4

Isn't the primal Bahamut stronger than the original?

---

That's what I was thinking but couldn't find confirmation on it? Would make sense tho.

That seems like a realistic guess, but ... now that you mention it, I think it might be hard to call definitively.

The seven celestial dragons (aka the first brood) have a level power power that is correlated to their age. If any dragon lived to be as old as the first brood, they would in theory rival their power (according to an old Dengeki interview). Since only the first brood is almost as old as time, what can really rival them?

On the other hand, the primals of Meracydia are such a threat because of the severity of their summoners' desperation. When the zeal of prayer becomes spiritual aether (a primal's power reserves), and the prayers being offered are those required to throw back an unstoppable Empire with nigh infinite resources, those primals gain nigh infinite power.

Let's also not forget that a captured primal, like an unstable Elemental, is prone to rage. Some of the primal Bahamut's power was due to the fact he'd been contained for millennia. I'm not sure if it's possible to consider all of the factors that would play into a fight between Celestial Dragon Bahamut and Primal Bahamut on a level playing field in the Third Astral Era.

Not that that should stop a Pirates vs. Ninjas debate over what that fight might be like. :p

Maybe not the right place for this, but does the lore book say with the First Brood on Eorzea wasn't enslaved by the Allagans?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grayve

Maybe not the right place for this, but does the lore book say with the First Brood on Eorzea wasn't enslaved by the Allagans?

---

No, only the Meracydian dragons were. As far as we know, Hraesvelgr, Niddhog, and Ratatoskr - along with Vrtra and Azdaja, the other members of the First Brood - were uninvolved with Allagan conquests. Of course, that naturally begs the question as to where they were during the Allagan reign, but it's entirely possible that they simply stayed out of the Empire's way and had no reason to be enslaved as a result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

No, only the Meracydian dragons were. As far as we know, Hraesvelgr, Niddhog, and Ratatoskr - along with Vrtra and Azdaja, the other members of the First Brood - were uninvolved with Allagan conquests. Of course, that naturally begs the question as to where they were during the Allagan reign, but it's entirely possible that they simply stayed out of the Empire's way and had no reason to be enslaved as a result.

---

Well, that's my question. The three seem to be rather close to Azys Lla. I was wondering how they avoided the Allagans.

If it's a matter of power vs power that has you concerned, do keep in mind that Midgardsormr, the oldest of all the dragons, was brought low by ONE exploding Garlean battleship. While he wasn't truly killed by it, that may well only be because no one bothered to go in and make sure he was well and truly dead.

I'd say it's safe to say that the Allagans at the height of their reign had more firepower to bring to bear on Bahamut than a single lousy battlecruiser. Even if Bahamut was stronger than his father, the Allagans had a heck of a lot of resources at hand. It's also worth considering that normal Bahamut was probably a lot less powerful than Primal Bahamut was. Becoming a Primal includes a significant boost in power in all the examples we've seen so far - and, in fact, gaining that power was the motivation in becoming a Primal, for some (Iceheart, Thordan). And after that power boost, the Allagans were STILL able to not only defeat, but take alive and entrap Bahamut.

I seriously don't think it was a simple matter of calling back Xande and having him go mano a mano with Bahamut. Xande, while powerful in his own right, did the most damage by leading and directing his people, not by wading into the thick of battle and punching stuff in the face.

It's a bit unfair to pin Midgardsormr's "defeat" on the Agrius. I'd argue it almost assuredly has to do more with where the Agrius crashed and exploded than the fact it did. Silvertear Lake's seal and the font of all Aether is very important, and being enveloped in the shredding destablising aether should've done more than the ceruleum explosion. After all, the ceruleum explosion alone from the Agrius isn't what turned Mor Dhona into a wasteland--that was the combination of the mass amounts of aether being released and the ceruleum fire. I mean, that single act (Midgardsormr plunging the Agrius into Silvertear Lake) is so monumentally important and did so much damage that writing it off as "one Garlean battleship" is a bit disingenuous.

Which always brings up why did Midgardsormr crash a Garlean vessel into the very thing he was meant to protect? Find out next time in "why the hell don't you talk to me anymore you cute minion dragonsormr?"

In-game strength of bosses based on game mechanics doesn't necessarily reflect their might in the game's lore. Xande isn't 'just' a boss in ST in the lore, he's much more prominent than that.

It's basically a case of:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...orySegregation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

In-game strength of bosses based on game mechanics doesn't necessarily reflect their might in the game's lore. Xande isn't 'just' a boss in ST in the lore, he's much more prominent than that.

---

Preety much, I'd say the same applies to the item level system. For examples, the Warrior's initial AF set and the Black Mages AF2 set (Fighter's and Goetia, respectably) are both special clothing marked with Runes. Does that mean that a set of "normal" mail or robes (say Star Velvet Casting and Titanium Fending sets) are really stronger than these clothes?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rocl

Which always brings up why did Midgardsormr crash a Garlean vessel into the very thing he was meant to protect? Find out next time in "why the hell don't you talk to me anymore you cute minion dragonsormr?"

---

It's not as though Middy had a whole lot of control over how the battle went. The Garleans were there above his lake and clearly invading. I'm sure he would have preferred to fight somewhere other than the lake, but I think it's fair to say that the Garleans would not have been particularly cooperative if he'd politely asked them to take the battle elsewhere.

It may also be too much to assume that he actually knew that crashing the Agrius into the lake would have the devastating effect that it did. We don't know a whole lot about the seal he was guarding, and he may well have thought it'd weather the crash just fine - only to discover too late that the Ceruleum explosion was enough to break it (and him).