PLD vrs WAR

so who will be the better tank?you decide. Disclaimer This thread is based on given data and player speculation, only time will reveal the true answer.

This is a list of most of the enmity skills mainly i left out most of the survival skill and stuff just to compare who has the most hate ability's. I may have missed some so ill edit it if you see something wrong.
pld+gla

GLD Abl. 1
Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.

GLD Abl. 3
Self AoE Temporarily increases the defense of all party members within range. Generates massive enmity.

∟GLD WS 2
Melee attack. Combo: GLD WS 1, Bonus: Increased enmity.

GLD Abl. 6
Increases target's enmity. Traits may trigger an AoE and a chance to inflict Stun.

∟GLD WS 8 O
Self AoE Increases enmity of all enemies within range. Can only be used immediately after blocking an attack.

these 2 are not enmity but very good tanking skills

PLD Abl. 1 O
Redirects a melee attack against the target party member to you.

PLD Abl. 3 O
Grants imperviousness to melee attacks. Effect fades upon moving




mrd+war


MRD Abl. 1
Increases target enmity. Traits may trigger a chance to reduce target's attack power

WAR Abl. 3 o
Redirects enmity generated by target party member's next attack to you.

∟MRD WS 2
Melee attack.Combo: MRD WS 1, Bonus: Increased enmity.

We still have to see what the traits are going to be, but it seems like GLD got a nice boost to AOE tanking.

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Originally Posted by Carpe

We still have to see what the traits are going to be, but it seems like GLD got a nice boost to AOE tanking.

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yea, they did get some aoe tanking thank god, finally.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

yea, they did get some aoe tanking thank god, finally.

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Depends on the reuse of that skill. If it is anything like wardrums, its just going to be just as worthless.

Honestly, the entire new system looks like total failure to me.

So you have all these FFXI classes branching off the classes already in the game? Hardly any of the combinations make any sense to begin with.

So you have a Paladin branching from Gladiator? Okay. I guess that works. But they are both sword and board classes, why have 2? Then you have Warrior branching from Marauder? So Warriors can't use shields? How the hell is this different than a Gladiator exactly? The Gladiator = Warrior from FFXI, except the fact you limit the weapons you can use based on the horrible armory system you have in place. Event he damn WS's you have in game now are very similar to the Warrior ones in FFXI ... stop kidding yourselves and just ditch it completely and put Warrior in as the base class.

I can go on and on. Monk branching from Pugilist? Ummm ... they are the same damn thing, just rename the class and make real "specilizations". THM and CON have healing and nuking abilities ... and they just randomly decide the CON = WHM and THM = BLM? Why?

They are just making the same mistakes over again, building the mechanics off a broken system in the first place. If you want this game to succeed you need to do stuff that makes sense. None of these changes are going to fix anything, just make it even more complicated and confusing.

I would much rather see all the new classes just removed, and have FFXI classes implemented. Then branch off these base classes with specialty ones. A Warrior should branch into PLD/MAR/other melee focused classes. Not the other way around. The base classes of WHM/BLM/RDM should branch into more specific classes, focusing on different aspects. Right now, the base classes basically do everything anyways, so what is the point? I mean, a conjuror, in any other game would be something that summons elementals/pets ... you conjure things up. Now this is the base for the healing class?

None of it fits, nothing really makes sense. I was pretty excited to hear these changes until I read this most recent post. If you are going to do something, do it right. The current system is stupid and broke, don't keep it and build everything off that/

/rant off

Well it's obvious you don't understand what's going on here, and I doubt I can explain it any better than anyone else has already explained it elsewhere, but here goes.

Gladiator = class.
Paladin = job.
class does not = job.
When using a sword, you are always a Gladiator, even when you are a Paladin.
A job has a symbiotic relationship to a class. Meaning, a job (PLD) cannot exist without a class (GLA).
What a job (PLD) does is force a class (GLA) into a specialized play style (Tank) at the cost of being able to use abilities from other classes (PGL,LNC,CON,etc), or other play styles (Damage).

So, when you ask "Why have 2?" the answer is "There is no 2. There is only one."
Trippy, huh?

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

Well it's obvious you don't understand what's going on here, and I doubt I can explain it any better than anyone else has already explained it elsewhere, but here goes.

Gladiator = class.
Paladin = job.
class does not = job.
When using a sword, you are always a Gladiator, even when you are a Paladin.
A job is not a separate entity from a class. It has more of a symbiotic relationship to a class. Meaning, a job (PLD) cannot exist without a class (GLA).
What a job (PLD) does is force a class (GLA) into a specialized play style (Tank) at the cost of being able to use abilities from other classes (PGL,LNC,CON,etc), or other play styles (Damage).

So, when you ask "Why have 2?" the answer is "There is no 2. There is only one."
Trippy, huh?

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are you talking to me, because i have no clue what you are talking about. This thread was about who do you think will be a better tank PLD or WAR. PLD having glads skills and WAR also have mrd skills. IM not sure you understand the topic

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So you have all these FFXI classes branching off the classes already in the game? Hardly any of the combinations make any sense to begin with.

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Stopped reading there. XI wasn't the only Final Fantasy to have these jobs. They're just classic Final Fantasy class/job names with structures inspired by previous titles. The only reason they don't seem to make sense is because we know so little at this point about the bigger plan of all these changes.

@OP: It's hard to say who would be the better tank of enmity abilities alone as tanking is just as much about surviving as it is keeping hate. Especially since many enmity+ abilities may be cross-classed.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Stopped reading there. XI wasn't the only Final Fantasy to have these jobs. They're just classic Final Fantasy class/job names with structures inspired by previous titles. The only reason they don't seem to make sense is because we know so little at this point about the bigger plan of all these changes.

@OP: It's hard to say who would be the better tank of enmity abilities alone as tanking is just as much about surviving as it is keeping hate. Especially since many enmity+ abilities may be cross-classed.

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i know we cant tell, its jsut a speculation thread on what people might think or hope for. Both classes and jobs have very nice survival skills and one thing that will need to be determined is how they will balance the jobs. As of now mar makes a god tank but the more DD they add to them the less control of enmity i think theyll allow them to have.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

are you talking to me, because i have no clue what you are talking about. This thread was about who do you think will be a better tank PLD or WAR. PLD having glads skills and WAR also have mrd skills. IM not sure you understand the topic

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Was talking to the post directly above mine. Sorry for the confusion.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

Was talking to the post directly above mine. Sorry for the confusion.

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oh sorry if i sounded rude, i didn't read that one cause its too long, lol

I really don't understand (mainly at the roeg in the thread no one else) how people are still confused about this job/class thing, read the reinhart jp to english thread and every interview ever done in western media with yoshi-p, its right there. Laid out. Not confusing really. Gla gets to 30 (example), gla gets item to turn into pld, and gets 4 new abilities while on PLD. As Blaise said there is no two. I'm so tired of people who don't bother reading anything and killing perfectly good spec threads.

Anyways @ op, my bf plays as GLA (GLD NOW? oh :/ idk) and he was worried about WAR being able to tank too much, like why take a PLD over a WAR, but I figured WAR won't be as good at tanking multiple mobs as PLD will. My bf I guess feels a little gimp when they let WAR do dmg and tank but pld will have to tank and not do dmg, but then I say I'm sure that heal ability in use adds a different level to PLD that makes him more useful than the DD counterparts (i'm a mage, i do hate dd's i'll admit it, stop running out of my buffs ; ; and making me drain my mp because YOU PULLED 8 mobs at once cause you wouldn't stop running, after I used my every 10 min mp get back ability and siphon mp like 8 times already lol)

In the long run we'll have see this in action, i'll invite wars and pld to my parties and end game, i'm not one of those elitists who likes to bring optimal build and act like i'm awesome for clearing it 20 times easymode.

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Originally Posted by zaviermhigo

I really don't understand (mainly at the roeg in the thread no one else) how people are still confused about this job/class thing, read the reinhart jp to english thread and every interview ever done in western media with yoshi-p, its right there. Laid out. Not confusing really. Gla gets to 30 (example), gla gets item to turn into pld, and gets 4 new abilities while on PLD. As Blaise said there is no two. I'm so tired of people who don't bother reading anything and killing perfectly good spec threads.


Anyways @ op, my bf plays as GLA (GLD NOW? oh :/ idk) and he was worried about WAR being able to tank too much, like why take a PLD over a WAR, but I figured WAR won't be as good at tanking multiple mobs as PLD will. My bf I guess feels a little gimp when they let WAR do dmg and tank but pld will have to tank and not do dmg, but then I say I'm sure that heal ability in use adds a different level to PLD that makes him more useful than the DD counterparts (i'm a mage, i do hate dd's i'll admit it, stop running out of my buffs ; ; and making me drain my mp because YOU PULLED 8 mobs at once cause you wouldn't stop running, after I used my every 10 min mp get back ability and siphon mp like 8 times already lol)

In the long run we'll have see this in action, i'll invite wars and pld to my parties and end game, i'm not one of those elitists who likes to bring optimal build and act like i'm awesome for clearing it 20 times easymode.

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i play glad in ifrit all the time and i almost out DD'd one of our lanncers. He wsant doing much damage though,lol.

average lancer is 8-9k, i did 3k and the other lancer did 4k mrd does4-5 k ithink.

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Originally Posted by Vidrak

Honestly, the entire new system looks like total failure to me.

So you have all these FFXI classes branching off the classes already in the game? Hardly any of the combinations make any sense to begin with.

So you have a Paladin branching from Gladiator? Okay. I guess that works. But they are both sword and board classes, why have 2? Then you have Warrior branching from Marauder? So Warriors can't use shields? How the hell is this different than a Gladiator exactly? The Gladiator = Warrior from FFXI, except the fact you limit the weapons you can use based on the horrible armory system you have in place. Event he damn WS's you have in game now are very similar to the Warrior ones in FFXI ... stop kidding yourselves and just ditch it completely and put Warrior in as the base class.

I can go on and on. Monk branching from Pugilist? Ummm ... they are the same damn thing, just rename the class and make real "specilizations". THM and CON have healing and nuking abilities ... and they just randomly decide the CON = WHM and THM = BLM? Why?

They are just making the same mistakes over again, building the mechanics off a broken system in the first place. If you want this game to succeed you need to do stuff that makes sense. None of these changes are going to fix anything, just make it even more complicated and confusing.

I would much rather see all the new classes just removed, and have FFXI classes implemented. Then branch off these base classes with specialty ones. A Warrior should branch into PLD/MAR/other melee focused classes. Not the other way around. The base classes of WHM/BLM/RDM should branch into more specific classes, focusing on different aspects. Right now, the base classes basically do everything anyways, so what is the point? I mean, a conjuror, in any other game would be something that summons elementals/pets ... you conjure things up. Now this is the base for the healing class?

None of it fits, nothing really makes sense. I was pretty excited to hear these changes until I read this most recent post. If you are going to do something, do it right. The current system is stupid and broke, don't keep it and build everything off that/

/rant off

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While you are entitled to your opinion you are making a lot of assumptions and comparing this to a different game as well. Not that I don't share the same reservations about the changes, as with all the updates, they have been really well done, and considering where the game was last year, it's a vast improvement.

Anyway, that being said, just wait and try out the updates before you cry doom and gloom, the majority of us voted for radical changes, and thankfully we are getting them, but that does mean that we will have to re-learn different things from time to time. :)

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Originally Posted by Vidrak

Honestly, the entire new system looks like total failure to me.

So you have all these FFXI classes branching off the classes already in the game? Hardly any of the combinations make any sense to begin with.

So you have a Paladin branching from Gladiator? Okay. I guess that works. But they are both sword and board classes, why have 2? Then you have Warrior branching from Marauder? So Warriors can't use shields? How the hell is this different than a Gladiator exactly? The Gladiator = Warrior from FFXI, except the fact you limit the weapons you can use based on the horrible armory system you have in place. Event he damn WS's you have in game now are very similar to the Warrior ones in FFXI ... stop kidding yourselves and just ditch it completely and put Warrior in as the base class.

I can go on and on. Monk branching from Pugilist? Ummm ... they are the same damn thing, just rename the class and make real "specilizations". THM and CON have healing and nuking abilities ... and they just randomly decide the CON = WHM and THM = BLM? Why?

They are just making the same mistakes over again, building the mechanics off a broken system in the first place. If you want this game to succeed you need to do stuff that makes sense. None of these changes are going to fix anything, just make it even more complicated and confusing.

I would much rather see all the new classes just removed, and have FFXI classes implemented. Then branch off these base classes with specialty ones. A Warrior should branch into PLD/MAR/other melee focused classes. Not the other way around. The base classes of WHM/BLM/RDM should branch into more specific classes, focusing on different aspects. Right now, the base classes basically do everything anyways, so what is the point? I mean, a conjuror, in any other game would be something that summons elementals/pets ... you conjure things up. Now this is the base for the healing class?

None of it fits, nothing really makes sense. I was pretty excited to hear these changes until I read this most recent post. If you are going to do something, do it right. The current system is stupid and broke, don't keep it and build everything off that/

/rant off

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I'll attempt a tl;dr: I like ffxi, make ffxiv into ffxi. Changing the class names will fix problems.

If u like ffxi so much, why dont u just play it? But I'm sure most of us want a different game, thats why we're not playing ffxi. Changing the class names isnt going to magically make this game better.

Honestly it seems like Paladin will be a better tank than Warrior. Warrior seems a bit more like an off-tank really. Someone who can survive keeping hate on adds or can take over if shit hits the fan.

It looks like Marauder's going to lose Defender, though Gladiator gets an ability that seems a bit like it.

Honestly though it seems like the jobs are designed around having at least one of each in the group. A lot of them have nice abilities that support each other or the party as a whole.

I don't think it's the right answer to approach this looking just at their abilities. Gladiator will function off of a mix of DMG, Blocking, Emnity generating abilities, and some healing from the Paladin job, Marauder looks to function off of High AoE DMG, Parry, Few Emnity generating abilities, and some more DMG for kicks. I noticed you failed to mention PUG tanking at all, I wonder if it's an oversight on your party or you just think SE is joking by giving them native tanking abilities still.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

so who will be the better tank?you decide. Disclaimer This thread is based on given data and player speculation, only time will reveal the true answer.

This is a list of most of the enmity skills mainly i left out most of the survival skill and stuff just to compare who has the most hate ability's. I may have missed some so ill edit it if you see something wrong.
pld+gla

GLD Abl. 1
Temporarily reduces damage you sustain and increases enmity generated by actions executed while effect is active.

GLD Abl. 3
Self AoE Temporarily increases the defense of all party members within range. Generates massive enmity.

∟GLD WS 2
Melee attack. Combo: GLD WS 1, Bonus: Increased enmity.

GLD Abl. 6
Increases target's enmity. Traits may trigger an AoE and a chance to inflict Stun.

∟GLD WS 8 O
Self AoE Increases enmity of all enemies within range. Can only be used immediately after blocking an attack.

these 2 are not enmity but very good tanking skills

PLD Abl. 1 O
Redirects a melee attack against the target party member to you.

PLD Abl. 3 O
Grants imperviousness to melee attacks. Effect fades upon moving




mrd+war


MRD Abl. 1
Increases target enmity. Traits may trigger a chance to reduce target's attack power

WAR Abl. 3 o
Redirects enmity generated by target party member's next attack to you.

∟MRD WS 2
Melee attack.Combo: MRD WS 1, Bonus: Increased enmity.

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I see both of them being good tanks, Warriors will have the higher health cap if what I read was correct... Maybe it will be a better single target tank? While PLD specialises in multi target?

I'm gonna research them both a bit more to see how accurate I am.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseLallaise

Well it's obvious you don't understand what's going on here, and I doubt I can explain it any better than anyone else has already explained it elsewhere, but here goes.

Gladiator = class.
Paladin = job.
class does not = job.
When using a sword, you are always a Gladiator, even when you are a Paladin.
A job has a symbiotic relationship to a class. Meaning, a job (PLD) cannot exist without a class (GLA).
What a job (PLD) does is force a class (GLA) into a specialized play style (Tank) at the cost of being able to use abilities from other classes (PGL,LNC,CON,etc), or other play styles (Damage).

So, when you ask "Why have 2?" the answer is "There is no 2. There is only one."
Trippy, huh?

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Wow that's confusing, but also pretty cool. Do you know if this will be level restricted? Like at a certain point you can essentially "evolve"? How about, do you know where I can read the official thread in regards to this awesome changes? I can't seem to find it no matter how hard I look around lodestone.

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Originally Posted by Cthulhu

I don't think it's the right answer to approach this looking just at their abilities. Gladiator will function off of a mix of DMG, Blocking, Emnity generating abilities, and some healing from the Paladin job, Marauder looks to function off of High AoE DMG, Parry, Few Emnity generating abilities, and some more DMG for kicks. I noticed you failed to mention PUG tanking at all, I wonder if it's an oversight on your party or you just think SE is joking by giving them native tanking abilities still.

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I see no native tanking abilities on PGL. A few survival abilities, sure, but absolutely nothing for enmity. . .

Yeah, PGL got better support abilities by the looks of it so it can fully take on that role. They will be good for "tanking" solo.

Perhaps a second look is in order at PGL's abilities then.

PGL Abl. 1 "Second Wind" - A pretty potent self cure

PGL Abl. 3 "Taunt" - Focus attacks on you

PGL Abl. 4 "Featherfoot" - Boost EVA and returns MP when you do evade. Not much use unless your the one being attacked

PGL Abl. 6 - Uses MP to boost DEF. Also does nothing unless your the one being attacked

I would count all those as tanking abilities. I don't know if the intent behind these abilities is main tanking or more situational (i.e. off tanking or positioning mobs for a FFXI style Sneak Attack + Trick Attack on a main tank). Whatever the reasoning behind these abilities it seems clear that PGL is meant to be hit by the mobs at least some of the time.

MNK Abl. 1 - Temporary increase in attack speed to generate TP faster

MNK Abl. 2 - Adds kick attacks. Remember the 1:1:0.75 ratio for emnity, auto attacks might not seem like much but it adds up over time.

MNK Abl. 4 - Burns MP to boost EVA. Once again of no use unless your being targeted by the mob.

The monk abilities seem to marginally boost tanking abilities on their face, we'll have to wait for the patch to see of how much use they actually are. It is my feeling that each class will eventually have 2 jobs they can become and PGL's second might be more of a tank (Ninja anyone?)

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Originally Posted by Cthulhu

Perhaps a second look is in order at PGL's abilities then.

PGL Abl. 1 "Second Wind" - A pretty potent self cure

PGL Abl. 3 "Taunt" - Focus attacks on you

PGL Abl. 4 "Featherfoot" - Boost EVA and returns MP when you do evade. Not much use unless your the one being attacked

PGL Abl. 6 - Uses MP to boost DEF. Also does nothing unless your the one being attacked

I would count all those as tanking abilities. I don't know if the intent behind these abilities is main tanking or more situational (i.e. off tanking or positioning mobs for a FFXI style Sneak Attack + Trick Attack on a main tank). Whatever the reasoning behind these abilities it seems clear that PGL is meant to be hit by the mobs at least some of the time.

MNK Abl. 1 - Temporary increase in attack speed to generate TP faster

MNK Abl. 2 - Adds kick attacks. Remember the 1:1:0.75 ratio for emnity, auto attacks might not seem like much but it adds up over time.

MNK Abl. 4 - Burns MP to boost EVA. Once again of no use unless your being targeted by the mob.

The monk abilities seem to marginally boost tanking abilities on their face, we'll have to wait for the patch to see of how much use they actually are. It is my feeling that each class will eventually have 2 jobs they can become and PGL's second might be more of a tank (Ninja anyone?)

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I'm not sure if you're responding to me particularly, or just responding to the notion in general; but if this was directed at me I'll note that I did say PGL/MNK was gaining several survival abilities. That said, let's take a look at the abilities you pointed out. . .

PGL Ability 1: Self-healing abilities are usable by anyone, I'm sure you'd agree. I'd be wary of counting this as a tanking ability, considering that I've seen DPS and healers use it, as well.

PGL Ability 3: Unless they're changing it (and there's nothing to indicate they are), Taunt is a pretty low priority for tanks. Considering that it's class-specific and says nothing about boosting enmity, I wouldn't be willing to count this as a tanking ability, either.

PGL Ability 4: Featherfoot is indeed only useful to tanks. Note, however that it's not class-specific. Ergo, I'll concede that this one is a tanking ability while still noting that PGL will likely only use it while solo.

PGL Ability 6: This is another that I feel would be a valid tanking ability on any other class, but that PGL will only use solo.

Now, my responses to numbers 4 and 6 make it sound like I'm dismissing the idea of a PGL tank out of hand. In fact, I would love to still be tanking as PGL, but I feel the dev team is moving us away from being a tanking class. For example, we were specifically handed -Enmity materia for our weapons. As such, I believe I'm interpreting the ability information in light of what we know from 1.19.

MNK Abilities 1 & 2: These are both clearly DPS abilities. I'll grant that increased DPS correlates to increased enmity, but you don't see me claiming Doomspike is a tanking ability. . .

MNK Ability 4: I will admit I'm slightly perplexed as to why MNK would get a boost to evasion, unless the AOE from here on out is going to be of the evadeable variety. . .