So the topic, Geomancer vs Blue Mage, made me finally decide to post my Geomancer tank idea. Irony after reading that thread most peoples ideas were what i had, scary. Anyway, i wanted to post it here too so i couod get good feedback, since it might get lost in the other thread. Be brutal, but not too brutal, i am just a squishy lala after all. Lol
http://tinyurl.com/geotank
Also so as not to confuse people, their weapon would be a mace, possible a bell shaped mace but still be a mace, and they would deal blunt damage, so monks rejoice. Geomancers have usually been a sturdy magic class with very decent physical damage as well as magical.
Okay as per request I am adding information regarding the abilities I have presented and how they would be used as a general rotation.
Enmity Combo (Breaker)
Gaia Breaker - 150/300
Cryo Breaker - 200
Hydro Breaker - 250
Total - 600/750(with 30% chance trait)
Non-Enmity Combo (Non-Breaker)
Gale Strike - 150/300
Plasma Spinner - 200
Flame Barrage - 250
Total - 600/750(with 30% chance trait)
Shield Dots
Discharge/Permafrost/Backfire- 200/300(with trait) - With Chime 300/450 - With Amplify 400/600
Slipstream/White Wind - 280 - With Chime 480 - With Amplify 560
Terra Sphere - 250 - With Chime 500 - With Amplify 500
Shield Mitigation/Effect
Discharge/Permafrost/Backfire- 10% - With Amplify 20%
Slipstream - 30% - With Amplify 60%
White Wind - 150 - With Amplify 300
Terra sphere - 20% - With Amplify 40%
OGCD Moves
Aqualung - 300
Quicksand - 450
Nature's Wrath - 300/500(Stellar Yang Effect)
Other Moves
Will-O'-the-Wisp - 100/120(with trait)
Demagnetize - 100
Air Blade - 120
Okay so here is the basics of how the job would mostly play, at 60.
When Main Tanking you would enter your Tank Stance (Lunar Yin) to increase defense and enmity, and once its available use Stellar Yang to add additional effects to your Shields, and other abilities. You would start by using an enmity generator, either Air Blade for long distance, Will-O'-the-Wisp, for AoE, or the Enmity "Breaker" Combo. Once Enmity has started generating the Shield focused game play can begin. At level 60 6 shields are given to you 4 defensive, 1 restorative, and 1 supportive. each shield has a CD time of between 90-180 seconds, and last between 15-30 seconds or 45s with the Chime ability. As you are engaging the enemy/enemies, you would inter-lay your shields to maintain a steady stream for both defense and offense. For instance, you activate Permafrost, so that provides a 10% decrease in damage and, at minimum, a 200 DoT for all of the surrounding enemies. once the shield wears off you activate Discharge, with the same parameters, then Backfire. each shield lasts 30s and has a recast of about 120s, so once Backfire is done Permafrost will be back up in roughly 30s more. at this point you might either wait the 30 seconds or activate one of the other shields to add more damage to the opponent. Now while it may not be recommended for some of the shields, shields can be stacked, so you can cast White Wind with Terra Sphere for extra defense and additional healing. While all of this is happening you would use your 2 separate combos interchangeably, or when prompted by the Full Circle trait, to maintain enmity and buffs, and any OGCD abilities that add additional damage as well as maintain HP or MP
Now as for when it's time to Off-Tank, the basic premise will remain the same, using the Shields to add additional damage. The Combos however will not be as interchangeable, as they were while Off-Tanking, as the Non-Breaker takes precedent, only switching when prompted by the by the Full Circle trait. And as before using your OGCD to add additional damage and maintain MP.
As for a Primary/Secondary Main/Off-Tank lineup, where Paladin is the Primary Main Tank and Warrior the Primary the Off-Tank, with Dark Knight being between the two (MAIN: PLD, DRK, WAR)(OFF: WAR, DRK, PLD), I would place GEO as the slightly weaker Off-Tank compared to WAR. While looking at all of the potencies across these tanks I noticed that PLD actially has the highest combo potency of the 3 current tanks, with WAR actually having the lowest, DRK edge them out with Dark Arts. But WAR has their Abandon and Defiance skills that have very high potencies, pushing them ahead. Though I was unaware, I seem to have made GEO in a similar way, their overall combo potencies are low but they have OGCD moves that add additional damage to the opponent for greater damage as a whole. I guess you could think of GEO as like a "DoT" tank compared to WAR's burst. So for the new lineup I would say (MAIN: PLD, DRK, GEO, WAR) (OFF: WAR, GEO, DRK, PLD)
Hopefully this helps to show people how I thought the job would be played, though like each job people may take some liberties with their own play styles.
TLDR: GEO would be something similar to a DoT tank by using their shields in succession, dealing high damage at a slower rate They would be the second Off-Tank the game would have (as of writing this)
Geomancer, a magical tank.
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11-07-2016, 01:59 AMEloahGeomancer, a magical tank.
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11-07-2016, 02:33 AMEnkidoh
The trouble is, GEO simply is not possible for several reasons - most specifically due to the fact the elemental wheel in FFXIV has been neutered to prevent 'Job favouritism' that FFXI suffered from, and Yoshi has stated in the past they will not be bringing it back either for that reason - as GEO's 'hat' is using elemental spells based on the surrounding environment, I don't see this happening.
Also technically GEO is already in the game, in the form of CNJ. Although the original 1.0 version CNJ was more closer to the GEO idea than the later 1.0/present CNJ is, the basic idea is still there, in that they actually use aether from the surrounding environment, literally granted to them by the elementals, the very embodiment of nature, to power their spells. As mentioned, 1.0's original version of CNJ actually had access to all elemental spells including Fire, Thunder and Ice, but these were given to THM when the class was redesigned so as to be a better fit for WHM when Jobs were introduced.
Either way, the fact CNJ draws it's powers from their surroundings is pretty much the same as GEO is in spirit at least, if not in practice. So hence I don't see GEO actually ever being implemented as a Job in this game I'm sorry to say. -
11-07-2016, 03:38 AMSaccharinWhile some earth type tank seems reasonable I'd like to see some non-tank/healer jobs for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
We still have magic reduction but it works for all magic so no job is disadvantaged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
I dont think CNJ necessary excludes an earth based job. Any new job we get will likely tie into the new expansion like the three others did this time. Ala Mhigo is some kind of 'rocky place' isn't it so I'm sure they could whip up some supporting lore for an elemental based class.
However I'd prefer it as ranged caster job. -
11-07-2016, 03:42 AMEloah
I see the logic behind that, and i agree. But, maybe it might not be labelled as a Geomancer, maybe an elementalist, or a brand new identity. Geomancer and Elementalist just fit the naming convention the best. But regardless of what the name is I would just like feedback on how i crafted the job, regardless of implimentation.
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11-07-2016, 03:50 AMSaccharinPut the description in the OP rather than an external spreadsheet. List the abilities and then 'rotation'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
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11-07-2016, 04:04 AMEloahI can do that when i get home, since i am at work now, but the spreadsheet lays it out a bit easier than what the forum allows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saccharin
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11-07-2016, 07:44 AMKazrah
So I see a role, some semblance of mechanical function, a weapon choice, and a list of abilities.
The biggest thing missing the background lore, that Raison d'être that could explain why this job deserves to exist within the lore of the game. It's also missing armor type, which if it's not typical tank-grade heavy armor, means that you'd need some sort of an effect to match passive levels of defense and magical defense of any other current tank.
It's an interesting concept, but it needs to be fleshed out to look like more than just a spreadsheet. -
11-07-2016, 08:06 AMmyahele
I'd be happy with any non-sword tank, to be honest.
A mage tank would be interesting concept. I have tanked some dungeons and PotD floors as a WHM, AST (especially this) and BLM for fun. The biggest issue are cast times getting interrupted and MP consumption. -
11-07-2016, 08:30 AMJim_Berry
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11-07-2016, 08:39 AMCidelI don't see it this way. Sure, CNJ has nature-based themes affiliated with it, but Geomancer is certainly not pigeon-holed into being something reliant on elemental attacks based on terrain and environment. In XI and more recently Explorers, Geomancer have been able to set ground fields that either boost or debilitate. Since I believe it's more related to "feng shui" for Japanese translations, they don't necessarily have to be limited by their immediate surroundings, especially since those vary so strikingly XIV.Really, I think there's a lot of wiggle-room for how Geomancer could be implemented into XIV without needing to go too far and beyond to redesign them into balancing (seriously, nothing can get worse than Summoner)- especially since the class seems to have been evolving and changing from it's "terrain affects skills" from its earlier installments to whatever suits the needs of the setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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11-07-2016, 11:03 AMEloahI hope this doesn't come across as mean, since you have the right to suggest making/listing what you suggested. But I am leaving things "basic" because we aren't sure what the Devs might want to do, or have in mind for the future. My thoughts are, present an idea that seems appealing, and craft the rest of what would be needed around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
As for Lore, while it is a nice touch and I can make one, I didn't focus on it because game mechanics are more important and any lore I might create probably would have to be updated, should something I make become invalid as the story progresses. For all we know their lore could entail something that has yet to be revealed. I find it best to have people interpret their own ideas for lore.Machinist is a good example, they actually have no lore in the game, in the sense that the job is "new" you are crafting the lore as you play it. GEO could possibly be the same thing, a new art discovered in a distant land that you are learning along with someone else.
As for Armor type, that is another area that is better left up to interpretation. Any Job we decide to add, for now anyway, would be either a Tank, DPS, or Healer, and until further notice the armor sets follow the pattern of: Tank, DPS in the form of 3 Separate Melee, Ranged, and Caster, and Healer. Now since I Made this a Tank job it would most likely use Tank armor, regardless of them being a "magical" tank, but they could receive their own armor, we as the player base do not know what the Devs might want. For the record though, I personally think that there would soon be 2 separate Tank sets one for more physically oriented Tanks and one for Magically oriented Tanks, and DRK and GEO would share a set, and WAR and PLD would have a separate set.
I hope that answers your questions. Could the job maybe be fleshed out more, yes, there is a ton I can do. But, is it something I should do, not really. The basics is fine as long as it piques the players interest. Let the developers figure out where to place a job lore wise or what background formulas it needs to run on. But as someone mentioned I will give a basic rundown of what I think the "basic" rotation would be. -
11-07-2016, 09:24 PMKazrahSomething is still better than nothing, and whatever it would be would at least be something for devs to at least think about. Yes, there might be something else planned rather than whatever lore story is put out, but it's still one less option they would have to take time to come up with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
Having to update the lore portion of a story isn't necessarily bad either. It just means that we the players have a better understanding of the game's story, and that's something the devs would be able to see and gauge for themselves. -
11-08-2016, 12:12 AMLineageRazorGEO wasn't any more focused on exploiting the elemental wheel than BLM was - and yet BLM is still in this game. GEO may have elemental attacks, but that's not an argument against putting it in this game. And, has been pointed out, there's at least one incarnation of GEO where the focus wasn't on elemental attacks: FFXI's Geomancer did have some elemental spells, but the focus was on its Geo and Indi area buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
GEO wouldn't be the first job to utilize all six elements, either - that distinction goes to NIN, and I don't think anyone felt like NIN was stepping on CNJ's or THM's toes.
As for both CNJ and GEO drawing upon the same source - not necessarily. They simply need to make a distinction in HOW each job draws upon elements to help keep them distinct; for example, they could specify that CNJ calls upon the assistance of elemental spirits, while GEO draws directly from elemental aether, or something along those lines. The lore is plenty flexible to accommodate.
Essentially, there's plenty of room to add GEO in such a way that it does not feel redundant with existing jobs - and that goes doubly so if GEO is given a tanking role, since the other elementally focused jobs are DPS (THM/BLM and NIN) and healer (CNJ/WHM). -
11-08-2016, 03:41 AMEloahOkay that is understandable, I could maybe come up with something. But as I stated, its not my main concern, so don't expect much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
On a side note, can we maybe get back to discussing peoples thoughts on what I posted and not why GEO could not be in the game. Thanks for the defense and all but I don't know what people think about my idea, just what people think about GEO being implemented and there is already a post for that. -
11-08-2016, 03:51 AMXlantaa
A magical tank won't work in this game unless they heavy modify the battle system and the entire gear system. The mot close to magical tank you have is the DRK.
Also, I prefer Geomancer as DPS or Healer. -
11-08-2016, 06:10 AMWelsper59
I'm more of the mind of treating GEO (as a tank) like a melee SMN. If we're being bottle necked into only being one role, then it kind of makes the idea a lot easier. I think a lot of folks that are against the idea of a "magic" tank are under the impression that magic actually has a significant presence of damage priority to physical. Magic damage and physical damage in this game does not have the same impact as elemental damage and physical damage did in games like XI. There are certain mechanics that sometimes separate the two types, but they're so rare that it's more like a simple gimmick of that one fight, than it is a lasting presence throughout everything you do in the game.
Back to what I started with however, I kinda like the idea of GEO being able to summon or create a form to wield as a tank as its version of a tank stance, like Defiance. Perhaps forming a golem of sorts, akin to wearing a suit of armor. Given how we now have a system in place that allows players to freely shapeshift for combat (certain pomanders in PotD), the data is already in place. It'd even open up the option for glamour changes (like maybe taking the form of the DQ golems we saw early into ARR)... the decade or so later from now, when SMN gets it. -
11-08-2016, 06:13 AMFinalWolf
GEO's spells better be instant cast/ uninterruptible because it's gonna suck to grab hate on mobs/ bosses that rubber band.
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11-08-2016, 06:20 AMAtlaworks
I gotta say, reading the list and the class... it does look very solid! I like a lot of it's abilities, they seem cohesive, and everything falls into the correct place for the most part in terms of damage mitigation. My only complaint is that you stole some blue magic and they want it back.
Otherwise, this seems like a solid tank-role idea with it's own flavor, it's own statistical lean(Seems to be more on mitigation as a whole than most tanks, with a lot of balancing CDs and resources as a whole- you're given a lot of active tools), and it's own gimmick(Shields!). Numbers might need to be adjusted, but I think this one is pretty well-made.
You want some lore? Hold on lemme just cobble something together(Get it? cobble... stone... geomanc- I'll let it percolate).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
What if Geomancers are like... the royal guard to the elementals of Gridania? The conjurers and padjali white mages are their mouthpiece and commune with them to send their message to the forest inhabitants, but I'm sure that naturally a select few of them are charged with guarding the elementals directly from possible threats- a small enough group to be blessed with their own soul stone, and the limited ability to shape the world around them to their will with the power and blessing of the elements, in order to directly impart the will of the elementals upon others and defend them from harm. -
11-08-2016, 06:31 AMAllistarI like it and support it and I agree not everything in the game deserves to have an extensive law and anything we add now is going to be affected by how the devs develop the story of XIV going forward. Kudos on what you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
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11-08-2016, 06:32 AMSessionZeroThey make a pretty big deal about how the Padjali are the guardians of the Twelveswood - and by extension the elementals. If they added Geomancer lore it would work better as something new that we haven't seen from any existing area yet. That means Othard, Meracydia, or Ilsabard. Or maybe the New World, though I suspect the aforementioned three continents are going to be seen long before the New World.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlaworks
If Geomancers were added for Stormblood, I would make them shamans that live in the steppes of Gyr Abania, and act as mystics for their tribes. -
11-08-2016, 06:36 AMAtlaworksI figured a case could be made for a more direct applications of Padjali guard. Even in a mechanical standpoint, if you're going to make the squishy wizards manually guard you you might not have a tactically sound decision. There's really no reason one can't make a band of elite personal bodyguards for the elementals that borrow power from them directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SessionZero
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11-08-2016, 06:41 AMSessionZeroTechnically, no, there isn't. But we haven't seen or heard anything about Geomancers until this point. It's been the Padjali who commune with and guard the Twelveswood, and lead the Conjurers who act as stewards of the forest. The Gods Quiver and Wood Wailers are the martial defenders of the Twelveswood and the Fane. Really, for such a peace-loving nation, Gridania is armed to the teeth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlaworks
I would rather see them expand on the rest of the world a little bit than dump more unnecessary (in my opinion) lore into one of the existing city-states. The steppes are a wild wilderness, and to my knowledge, no where does it say that highlanders only inhabited Ala Mhigo. Steppe tribes that utilize geomancy in a shamanistic capacity would expand the lore in an interesting way and provide a bit more meat to the new expansion. -
11-08-2016, 06:53 AMEloahThank you for the feedback, yeah potencies may need to be adjusted, that will be par for the course, but those for the most part are minor adjustments. As you, said I tried to make it as balanced as I could with the other jobs, but still have its own flavor. As for the BLM spells, I think White Wind and Aqualung are the 2 "main" names I borrowed, but names can always be changed, lol. But as of right now FXIV does have some BLM names in the game in the form of Mighty Guard and I think Tri-Disaster, but don't quote me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlaworks
As for the "pseudo" lore you mentioned you semi almost came up with what I thought up. I was gonna say maybe they could be a magical art recentlly discovered in Othard, that is akin to Conjury, Since Geomancer if based on Feng Shui which is a Chinese art form , making it fitting as an Eastern Job over a Western one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlaworks
But I thank you for your post and hope to see more people express what they think, XD. -
11-08-2016, 07:00 AMAmetrine
It was suggested quite some time ago that Geomancer could act as a DPS or Tank upgrade to CNJ, but since classes are out and new jobs are starting at 30, that's nixed.
Rune Fencer seems nixed, too, if Alisaie is supposed to be a Red Mage, she's a mash up of Rune and Red.
I have a few critiques, though. Stellar Yin and Lunar Yang stances seem too close in name to the AST Diurnal and Nocturnal Sects. Geomancy is sort of the reverse of astrology, looking at natural formations and patterns in rocks to predict fortunes (literally throw down some rocks and divine from how they land), so the star and sky theme goes against part of the core mythos of what Geomancer is named after.... Unless you are pushing into Feng Shui Warrior, then it's fine :P -
11-08-2016, 07:00 AMAmetrine
Otherwise, I like the job, and it looks really enjoyable, but it concerns me that it's more Paladin-like than Warrior-like. WAR needs a hard rival in the Off Tank slot, but that really has nothing to do with your concept here. That's just my opinion on the meta and the kind of tank we should see next.
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11-08-2016, 08:16 AMKazrahI had some thought about that too, which was why I based the rotation for my Geomancer concept off of the Wu Xing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
That also brings up the best approach to the possible storyline, which could stem from the fact that different spellcasting styles can stem from one source (i.e. elementals, the void, etc.). -
11-08-2016, 08:49 AMEloahYou are right, they are "similar" but when I was looking into Geomancy and where it stems from I found out it relies heavily on Yin and Yang, hence the names, lol. Yin is aligned with the moon and Yang with the sun, which is why I named it as such. I admit the names are a little similar to AST but for the life of me I could not figure out another name that sounded "good" but I am open to suggestions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
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11-08-2016, 09:36 AMAmetrine
It could be solved by simply calling them "Yin Allignment" and "Yang Allignment." Not super fancy flavor text, but it gets it across and the symbols representing them would still be easily recognizable by fellow players.
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11-08-2016, 10:36 AMAllistarWhere did you get this little tidbit???Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
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11-08-2016, 11:23 AMAlphaFoxSeeing as they are doing away with classes and jobs are only level 30. Makes sense, though I guess nothing is stopping them from making 3 new jobs that break it and start at 1. Though to be honest, come 4.0 we may lose the classes all together and newbies will be level 1 paladins and monks. Dunno really nor do I know how much it would influence the jobs or work if they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allistar
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11-08-2016, 11:46 AMAmetrineJust from past instances. Every job stone thus far has been defaulted to begin a level 30, but Alpha is correct that nothing is hard confirmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allistar
I apologize if I made it seem concrete.
Why can't I edit on mobile?
Anyway.
I really want to build a version of Geomancer that's based heavily upon it's Middle Eastern, Northern African, Persian variations, though I can't imagine it being a tank really in that form. It's almost pushing into Calculator territory at that end.... -
11-08-2016, 12:25 PMEloahI'd be interested in seeing that as an idea, more power to you if you decide to roll with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
Also, as you mentioned with the Alignment name for the stances, that sorta feels a little like Paladin as well; Alignment, Oath, not the same word, but the same feel. I think right now I will stick with what I have, but like I said I am open to suggestions. -
11-08-2016, 01:47 PMAmetrineIf that's the case, may I suggest using Solar and Lunar over Stellar and Lunar? Gives it a more diametric feel verses both being reminders of night time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
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11-08-2016, 03:03 PMCookieMonsta
I will only support this class if you can split yourself in to 5 clones and they can all poof to the main one for more AoE damage
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11-09-2016, 09:07 AMEloahWell Stellar can mean both Sun and Star, Stellar just sounded "better" to me. I will keep looking for something to possibly change the name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ametrine
well that could be the animation for Will-O'the-Wisp, i mean that semi what the name indicates?Quote:
Originally Posted by CookieMonsta
Also is there anything else about the job, or does it seem that "solid". -
11-09-2016, 11:51 PMThe_NPC
thou I couldn't fully comprehend u'r idea OP (names of spells keep throwing me off & I haven't clicked the link yet) what I get from the comment is its a multi-layered def wall tank class were the walls are managed by timers & def CD with the non arrgo physical attacks being with a mace for blunt dmg (which sound great for MNK comboing) now I better hit the link to read more before making sujestions but I shall wonder if the managed def walls do stuff like E4E on Arcanist (enemy gets a debuff if hitting buffed person) cause that would make GEO a Spiked wall tank type which FF14 doesn't have yet & sounds like a tank class that would be used "Lore-wise" against a physical melee class like MNK (Chi-barrier user vs Kai-fist user, sounds legit)
Edit: read link makes way more sence & is exactly what I thought/hoped it would be, a Spiked wall Tank class (like 1 Crusader build in Diablo 3) granted the "Spike" part comes from its OT stance but that a nessesary trade-off that makes sence. Its 2 actual combos remind me of MNK are there is a seperate starting move unlike PLD/WAR/DRK with its DMG combo being a MP regen style (as with all that drain u have for OT stance effects it seams needed). Sounds & reads like it would play like a Tank-class build with MNK's combo playstyle bigger question is what would its cross-classes be (if SE keeps those in use since they plan to revamp classes this expansion) eather way sounds like fun & would totally try to use it if added, Good job OP nice creation.