[Win Trades]So I'm the only one never saw this?

So basically every non pvp players are against the mount reward together

And their main points are
1-Too hard to get
2-This reward is weigh too exclusive, shouldnt be like this
3-The matches are not fair, caz top players are using win trades so back to point 1

My opinion about those 3 points is Whats the **** is that want the mount? go que and be the top stop fooling around

And at least 4 ppl replyed me with those "win trades" thing
Im going to say i wasnt there in S1 so i dont know about S1, but i never saw any win trades like what they described "ppl standing there and let one side win"
Why a group of ppl never touch pvp know so many "truth" about ranking matches

Well i just want to know am i the only one never saw so called win trades

Edit: I'm not asking for conspiracy theory things here, is there any real evidence or any experience from you or your friends in S2

You sure make the PvP community look so inviting and friendly... σwσ

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

Well i just want to know am i the only one never saw so called win trades

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Yes you are. Win trading has been rampant in PVP since day 1.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

You sure make the PvP community look so inviting and friendly... σwσ

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We actually are. Of course, just like any other communities in game or in life, there are bad apples, but the larger majority are pretty cool and enjoy the game too. Especially when we're not being labeled, demonized, misrepresented by people that want nothing to do with us, and ignored by both players and SE for the most part.

You should keep in mind that win-trading is not always obvious. It's not like win-traders simply drop everything and stand perfectly still while people kill them. There are a lot of ways to throw a match without doing anything so blatant. You could stack unnecessary numbers of medals and die at the last minute. You could botch your bursts, or avoid scoring the last hit on your kills. You could completely ignore all CC attempts on the healer, or sabotage the CC of your teammates. etc.

That's also assuming that the win-traders are active during your queue, or willing to lose your match. Solo-queue is fairly random in it's matchmaking. In order to stay within range of the person you want to boost, you have to ensure that you also climb and stay in range. That means that they have to win sometimes, not just throw matches. Any match that they get in which is NOT against their friends, is not a match they necessarily want to lose. If they don't recognize any names, they'd just play as normal. If they end up on the same team, then they'll actually go out of their way to win.

The only players who stand completely still and lose on purpose are the ones who are tome farming, as they don't care about the result at all. Season 1 was an absolute nightmare with this particular brand of parasite, but they all jumped ship when the queue's slowed down. They're only in it as long as they can collect tomes quickly. Slow queues = time to move on. Win traders, on the other hand, stuck around.

Eh, give it a few months. I think the people who'll stick around a few months into are those who really wanna get that mount.

What I mean by "seen" is you are asked to do that, or your friends are asked to do so

I'm not mean you lose a game and doubt someone didn't try their best
Because that sounds like conspiracy theory

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

What I mean by "seen" is you are asked to do that, or your friends are asked to do so

I'm not mean you lose a game and doubt someone didn't try their best
Because that sounds like conspiracy theory

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You're clueless. Really. Match fixing has been around in just about every single competitive environment both in and out of video games. Sports, hobbies, anything. There is always cheating, and match fixing is one of the more popular ways to cheat because it is easy to make it look legit.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

You're clueless. Really. Match fixing has been around in just about every single competitive environment both in and out of video games. Sports, hobbies, anything. There is always cheating, and match fixing is one of the more popular ways to cheat because it is easy to make it look legit.

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Your premises:
-Feast is competitive
-Competitive matches always have cheats
-(Some examples here: Sports etc)
Your conclusion:
-Feast do have a lot of cheats

Base on the basic logic of arguement
Your arguement is inductively weak

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

Your premises:
-Feast is competitive
-Competitive matches always have cheats
-(Some examples here: Sports etc)
Your conclusion:
-Feast do have a lot of cheats

Base on the basic logic of arguement
Your arguement is inductively weak

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Let's try this:

- There are obvious patterns which help identify win traders
- The best players in the community all know each other. If there a "no-names" on the top of the leaderboards, they are win traders or cheaters(in some rare cases they just get insanely lucky with matchmaking)
- These players are often banned, which is testament that they are(were) win traders

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Originally Posted by Februs

In fact, I'm almost positive that someone posted an image of it once here in the forums to try and get SE's attention so they could put a stop to it. I don't remember if we got a response or not, because it was a long time ago.

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EDIT: This isn't the one that I was thinking of, but it's a decent example for you none the less. In a thread on Eso farming in Feast, you could find this posting:

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Originally Posted by Petite

Sigh..https://youtu.be/EnbvUIHExrc

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The vid is still active, so it should give you an idea of just how bad it was back then. SE actually did respond to it with this:

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We are aware that there are users engaging in this kind of behavior and we will be taking action against those found to be taking part in it. If you encounter this type of activity, we ask that you please report it via the in-game Support Desk (System > Support Desk > Report Harassment). Please include as much information as possible in your report.

While we cannot release individual results regarding the investigations we conduct, you can rest assured that we take this seriously and will be carefully looking into each report we receive.

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That's right. SE actually asked us to engage in witch-hunting. To my knowledge, quite a few bans were passed out as a result, but it didn't really curb the problem. Eso farming only died out when queues died late in the season, and win-traders just started to be more subtle about how they organized their matches.

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

What I mean by "seen" is you are asked to do that, or your friends are asked to do so

I'm not mean you lose a game and doubt someone didn't try their best
Because that sounds like conspiracy theory

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Apparently, my first response to this vanished ... but here it is again.

Win trading isn't a conspiracy theory. Suspicious trends show up in the leaderboards when it happens. Firstly, you end up with players who have abnormally high win rates -- much higher than the average for their tier. They also keep their win rates fairly stable, which is statistically improbable in a game mode like this. Most players also have to grind for their ranks. They go up and down. Win-traders are an exception, as they tend to "boost" their way up. This is usually fairly easy to pick out, as well, because it tends to happen at times when queues are slow. Dead queue lines make it easier for them to organize matches. If Feast queues are slow for a week, but someone is still suspiciously jumping up in ranks, then it's a safe bet that it's not legit progress.

That said, you are correct that there is no way to be 100% certain of someone win-trading just based on outside observation. Breaking the community trends is statistically improbable, but not impossible. They could just be lucky, so asking for first hand evidence is completely fair. Unfortunately, the answer to your question is still a resounding yes.

In the first season of Feast, it wasn't uncommon to see postings in the Party Finder which went along the lines of: "Looking for x players to boost in Feast," or: "Eso farming in Feast! Join for fast cap!" Between the two, the later was far more popular than the former, but both happened. I saw quite a few postings looking for boosters in the early days. In fact, I'm almost positive that someone posted an image of it once here in the forums to try and get SE's attention so they could put a stop to it. I don't remember if we got a response or not, because it was a long time ago.

Regardless, there's no doubt that it happens in both party queue and solo queue. It's just not easy to catch, so SE is limited in how they can respond to it.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

Let's try this:

- There are obvious patterns which help identify win traders
- The best players in the community all know each other. If there a "no-names" on the top of the leaderboards, they are win traders or cheaters(in some rare cases they just get insanely lucky with matchmaking)
- These players are often banned, which is testament that they are(were) win traders

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I thought the top players we talking about were the final ones
Ppl who get on the board for few days and banned/dropped... that's not the point

And again I'm asking for real things not doubt
So if what you say have possibility exist, did you find one in S2?

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Originally Posted by Februs

Breaking the community trends is statistically improbable, but not impossible.

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I would take this classical conspiracy theory example to against your"win trade is not conspiracy theory" lol

And for S1, I wasn't there so I'll not say anything(but accrocding to the video link... well that's...)
About high victory rating ppl... I'll say I do believe they do that by themselves after having fights with them(don't say all matches I played with them have win trades lol

So what you mentioned about high victory rate ppl is merely doubt caz that"hard to find out"
That arguement is not strong

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

You sure make the PvP community look so inviting and friendly... σwσ

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Sry for didn't saw your reply before

Plz go and see how PvE players talking about pvp players and feast because of a upcoming mount
If you consider those as inviting and friendly

Btw someone was saying I was lying all around about I did play feast
Because I'm using a lv56 smn for forum
...I have to tell him we can have many characters in this game
How friendly I am that didn't say anything worse(smile

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

I would take this classical conspiracy theory example to against your"win trade is not conspiracy theory" lol

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I don't think you're quite following what I mean by "high win rate."

It's not just about having a high win rate. It's about boosting with a stable %. The average win rate for even the best players in Feast is around 50-60% It's statistically improbable for someone with that % to suddenly jump up in the rankings during a dead week by sheer skill. It doesn't matter how good the person is. A 50-60% win rate ensures that they lose almost as much as they win, so going up in leaps and bounds while the queue line is inactive should not be happening unless you're organizing the matches yourself. You can ask any of the top 100 about how hard it is to climb out of silver, gold and platinum rank and they'll all give you the same answer, no matter how talented of a player they are. The difference between how they grind out their ranks and how a win-trader does things is fairly obvious.

Regardless, you asked for first hand evidence of win-trading within Feast, and I showed it to you. That video speaks volumes all on it's own, and that's only one example of many. At the time it was made, this issue was at it's worst. Since then, illicit activities have become a lot subtler, but it still happens. I've seen thrown matches in both Season 1 and 2. The most obvious ones I've seen are people who admit in the chat that they're just farming tomes or that they're talking in discord to a person on the opposite team, but I've also seen people make some very convenient "mistakes" at the last minute of a match (such as running headlong into the enemy spawn to feed a kill at the very end). Win-trading or match-fixing can take on a lot of different forms, and it's not easy to catch. Personally, I prefer to give most people I see the benefit of the doubt. It's easier to assume they're just stupid, rather than malicious, but there really isn't any denying that win-trading can and does happen. If you truly haven't seen it yourself, then you're a very lucky person and should be thankful, but passing it off as a "conspiracy theory" is drawing the line when some of us have see it first hand in it's most blatantly obvious forms.

This feels like a troll thread. Win trading isn't a conspiracy theory everyone knows it happens from pvp to verminion to triple triad. It's not even hard to do. If your on an NA server you que your duty finder to French or German and get matched to your friends almost 100% of the time. People would also do this to get commendations for the mount. This is well known among the veteran players and the fact that you want to argue every point that tells you this makes this feel like a troll thread.

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Originally Posted by Februs

The most obvious ones I've seen are people who admit in the chat that they're just farming tomes or that they're talking in discord to a person on the opposite team

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This is what I'm asking for *click like*

Got your mean by stable victory rate, that could happen and might happened but still need some directly evidence like what I quote

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Originally Posted by Gravton

If your on an NA server you que your duty finder to French or German and get matched to your friends almost 100% of the time. People would also do this to get commendations for the mount. This is well known among the veteran players.

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Same, I'm not asking for so called well known "fact"
I'm asking for real things like what I quote Februs in #18

Real things? Like what? A win trader coming on here and posting "Yeah I'm a win trader, here is a link to a video of me doing it, and here is a link to my rankings." Why would someone open themselves up to getting banned? You can't post calling someone out either because that too results in a ban from the forums. If people do have actual proof then I would suggest they open a ticket.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Real things? Like what? A win trader coming on here and posting "Yeah I'm a win trader, here is a link to a video of me doing it, and here is a link to my rankings." Why would someone open themselves up to getting banned? You can't post calling someone out either because that too results in a ban from the forums. If people do have actual proof then I would suggest they open a ticket.

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Click on the link in #11 and see what I quote in #18
What I'm asking for is, did you/your friend see one or being asked to do so

No one will believe what you said if you do not have any evidence

Well you won't believe it. Clearly the community already does so I don't know about "no one". But answer your question yes, I have seen, my friends have seen it. We have even seen posts in party finder and Reddit looking for groups to participate. But that's because I've been playing since launch.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

Well you won't believe it. Clearly the community already does so I don't know about "no one". But answer your question yes, I have seen, my friends have seen it. We have even seen posts in party finder and Reddit looking for groups to participate. But that's because I've been playing since launch.

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That's what I'm asking for, but again I did say I wasn't there for S1 at the beginning so I would say nothing about S1
And all my searches about win trades(like GM showed up or someone being asked to do so with screencut etc) on google are something happened around half year ago(edit: at least half year ago, and some in 2015 and 2014

So did you see that in S2?

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

all of my searches about win trades(like GM showed up or someone being asked to do so with a screencut etc) on google are something happened around half a year ago(edit: at least half a year ago, and some in 2015 and 2014

So did you see that in S2?

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I think the problem you're going to run into here is that almost no one will have saved any of the images or videos for very long.

A lot of people have seen it. We might have even recorded the proof via screen capture or video, but that doesn't mean that we held onto them after the fact. Even if someone submitted a grief report to SE, they probably didn't keep the evidence any longer than they had to. They also asked for us to use the in-game support desk feature, and I'm not even sure if that supports photo/video submissions. Even if it does, the only reason to hold onto those images after the submission is for public-shaming or witch-hunting, which can actually land the person doing it with a ban if they're not careful.

That is why SE's original call for reports was such a catch 22. They wanted us to report things that were suspicious, but if you did you ran the risk of getting into just as much trouble as the person you reported. I think a lot of people are nervous to even submit reports, because we really don't know how SE will handle it ... assuming they do anything at all. The worst case scenario is getting hit with a ban for putting up the evidence you're asking for. Just calling someone out by name here on the forums can land you in a pot of hot water, so it's unlikely anyone will go out of their way to give you anything more than anecdotal evidence with ambiguous details.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/747577/

You don't need proof, you can cheat so it happen.
but the solo feast don't reflect a lot of potential wintrading, seem the ranking was legit in past season.
but for the premade feast it's a other story, we see some complain about wintrading in past season.
I don't say it never happen in solo, but if it happen, it's happen only in few case.
Anyway the op friend is right when them say it's hard to get the reward, you need to play pvp often for all the season and play the best you can to reach top 100, it realy reward dedicacted pvp player.

i'm not saying anyone this season is cheating, but in order to support the current feast party rankings, there has to be a small number of teams with LARGE zero win rates to not even show up on the ladder, or a large number of teams with NO wins and small number of matches played
http://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acci...db9f62c2e0.jpg

I think the most common happening is just people get 7 other friends/LS mates/FC people together and stack the teams. You don't really need to risk being banned or w/e with explicitly having people throw games, its not worth it. What happens now isn't "win trading" in the common sense of the phrase; the people on the losing team might actually be trying and just think they're joining to have some fun messing around in the Feast but the way the organizers split teams, they make sure they're going to win 100% (and of course they're going to queue for ranked 4v4, not custom matches ;) ). This was how several people placed in top 10 LP rankings for Primal last season.

Win trading has been happening since PvP arena became a 'thing'. The difference between then and now is that SE will actually do something about it if the offenders are really obvious about what they are doing. Back in the day, I'd see PF groups looking to win trade -- and they'd just be bold and honest about this because they knew they wouldn't be punished for it. Today, SE is trying to crack down, so win traders aren't as obvious to those of you who haven't encountered it yourself. Personally, my only experience with people I think were win trading must have been people who were just doing it to farm tomes. One night when I was trying to get experience in a group party, we kept getting paired against a team that wasn't even trying. I was pretty convinced they were just farming tomes. If we had kept farming them, our ranking would have eventually jumped up, but we opted not to do that because we did not want to be flagged as win traders (since they were basically handing us the matches).

Another important thing to remember is that naming and shaming on the forums is against the ToS. Besides actually reporting someone you think is not playing by the rules, you can't do much. There have been notorious cheaters, win traders, you name it... and the most we can do on the official forums is refer to them in indirect ways. So the most you get here is, "Yeah, it happens. No, I can't cite specific examples for you without risking my forum account."

There is 100% win trading going on. There has been since the original wolves den, and still is now, especially with better rewards. It just goes unpunished.

Wintrading in solo queue is when 2 people, or a group of people, take turns using throwaway alt characters to boost each other. It works because theres literally no safeguards against it and because its nearly undetectable. That should be reason enough to confirm it happens. Claiming that every member of the pvp community is above such things is absurd.

If SE decided to release detailed match history on the leaderboard, it'd probably paint a pretty interesting picture.

Thx for all the replies, been busy thses days so basically the only i did was

[IMG]http://r.photo.store.qq.com/psb?/V14WnCls0HY1el/aogVK89wNb2AXpU*Lu6DvULMmPePrZsQK9xRXz31Zb4!/r/dCABAAAAAAAA[/IMG]
http://r.photo.store.qq.com/psb?/V14...r/dCABAAAAAAAA

Will read and maybe reply later, if all replies are saying something useful(S2 + real experience) rather than just saying something like 'yeah its true'
(And i do believe there s win trades now by watching someone won the election lol (No this s not the point lol)

Hope i can still play feast after this 14h flight though, i can see the horrible lagging now...

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

snip

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What does a picture of an in-game wedding have to do with the thread topic?

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

What does a picture of an in-game wedding have to do with the thread topic?

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No relations at all

But that's okey to put that pic here cause I just read the replies:
Are those replies with the only content like "Yes there are win trades" have relations with the topic?
No

What am asking is real exp in S2 (This is a very limited thing isn't it

Since basically, well, let me count
13ppl replied me, only 1ppl showed what I asked, and 1ppl showed some indirectly things
2/13 on topic

Does it really matter I put a wedding pic here now