Explain Strength, Please help

Hello all well just making a quick question about STR , for example im a Lancer 50 and i have a +0 Hart Guisarme and i have ("naked") Atack Power 487 and STR 233 , but when i equip my +0 Hart Guisarme with DOUBLE STR Materia wich Adds +33 STR (STR 266) , the Atack Power stays the same.. why is that?

Please help if possible , Thank you.:confused:

it's been explained by bahyonne, in this game the formula isn't str = attack power.
alas, stacking only str it's futile

strength increases the amount of damage that is possible for an attack, attack actually inreases the power.

If you think of it as a bottle of water and water is the amount of damage.
with base strength and base attack you have a 0.5 l bottle of water and the bottle is full to the brim. so you do consistant alright damage.

If you increase str by alot and dont increase attack, you now have a 1 l bottle of water but you still only have 0.5 l of water in it so the attack damage is still the same.

If you increase str and attack but not as much as you tried putting everything into str, you will have a 0.75 l bottle of water and it full the the brim meaning your attack power has increased consistantly.

hope my dodgy analogy helps

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

strength increases the amount of damage that is possible for an attack, attack actually inreases the power.

If you think of it as a bottle of water and water is the amount of damage.
with base strength and base attack you have a 0.5 l bottle of water and the bottle is full to the brim. so you do consistant alright damage.

If you increase str by alot and dont increase attack, you now have a 1 l bottle of water but you still only have 0.5 l of water in it so the attack damage is still the same.

If you increase str and attack but not as much as you tried putting everything into str, you will have a 0.75 l bottle of water and it full the the brim meaning your attack power has increased consistantly.

hope my dodgy analogy helps

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^ Confusing as hell, and a little misleading.

STR has no direct effect on ATK Power. STR increase the damage curve of your base attack. Attack Power increases your base attacks ceiling.

Example:

Lets say you have 200 STR, and your regular attack hits anywhere from 50-62, if you add STR to that what would happen is your base attack would be 55-62. By adding just Attack power you'd hit for 50-70.

This is why adding both STR & Attack Power make sense as the combination of the two would not only increase your base attack, but the base attacks ceiling.

(All numbers are fictional and do not represent actual damage of having 200 STR)

Carraway did str testing, results in the LNC thread.

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Originally Posted by carraway

Further testing of STR vs. ATK

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...7f5e000621.jpg

No buffs used except for Speed Surge II, Bloodbath II, and Keen Flurry.

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Rentahamster is the only one who posted any correct information in this thread. The above speculation about how ATK and STR work is wrong and not based on any real tests. Nobody knows the actual formula, so all we can do is guess and hope SE comes to their senses and reveals it.

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Originally Posted by Frein

Rentahamster is the only one who posted any correct information in this thread. The above speculation about how ATK and STR work is wrong and not based on any real tests. Nobody knows the actual formula, so all we can do is guess and hope SE comes to their senses and reveals it.

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Yet here you are making an assumption with nothing to back up your opinion, yet it's stated as fact.

Don't make the assumption that information posted wasn't based on any real test.

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Originally Posted by Technolust

Yet here you are making an assumption with nothing to back up your opinion, yet it's stated as fact.

Don't make the assumption that information posted wasn't based on any real test.

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It can't have been based on real tests because any real tests would have proven the info wrong.

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Originally Posted by Frein

It can't have been based on real tests because any real tests would have proven the info wrong.

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Again, explain clearly how I was incorrect, because I would really like to hear your logic behind your answer.

well actually the information given was off the words of the developers, so i took it as fact, as one would assume the people who made the game to be correct.

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

well actually the information given was off the words of the developers, so i took it as fact, as one would assume the people who made the game to be correct.

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You were right in what you said, I just put it in a format that was a slightly easier to understand.

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Originally Posted by Eruantien

well actually the information given was off the words of the developers, so i took it as fact, as one would assume the people who made the game to be correct.

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They never said it like that. Bayohne specifically said that it doesn't work like in FF11.


The cause of most of the confusion comes from the ambiguity over what "attack power" means. To some people, "attack power" means the "attack" stat on your attributes page. To other people, "attack power" means how much damage you do to an enemy. Many people use it interchangeably, and that leads to confusion.

So, as clearly as possible:

STR does not affect the "attack" stat that you see on your attributes page. The only way to increase the "attack" stat is to wear gear that has +attack power on it.

Adding either STR or the "attack power" stat raises your overall damage output. Both stats raise minimum and maximum damage.

Every 1 point of STR increases your damage output more than 1 point of "+attack power". This is roughly a 2:3 ratio as pointed out by Carraway's testing.

A piece of STR materia is roughly equal to a piece of ATK materia of the same quality since you get more ATK stat in an ATK materia, so just use whatever you got. There are some differences, but that only matters to hardcore players so don't even bother.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Since you are all discussing stat changes, post patch 1.19, I thought I'd pass along some info regarding the changes to stats that we received from Triairy. It looks like he left off physical evasion, so I'll bug him about it. ;)

STR: Attack Power
DEX: Physical Attack Accuracy/Block Rate/Parry Rate
VIT: Defense/Enhancing Magic/Max HP
INT: Attack Magic Potency
MND: Healing Magic/Magic Accuracy
PIE: Magic Evasion/Enfeebling Magic/Max MP

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In regards to the questions of "how much STR do I need to increase my attack?" and "Well, in FFXI this is how it worked!" type of comments; FINAL FANTASY XIV works entirely differently and doesn't use the same system where (for example) 2STR = 1 attack. STR+ X is used to calculate your damage output so you won't see a change in other parameters by simply adding on more STR.

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why not say it short:

str increase minimum dmg

atk power increase maximum dmg ?

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

why not say it short:

str increase minimum dmg

atk power increase maximum dmg ?

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Probably because that's not right. . .

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

why not say it short:

str increase minimum dmg

atk power increase maximum dmg ?

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Because both str and atk power increase both minimum and maximum damage. Test it out sometime.

Unlike other stats, STR and Attack Power effect the damage one does independently.

INT increases your Attack Magic Potency.
DEX increases your Accuracy.
MND increases your Healing Magic Potency.
STR does not increase your Attack Power.

Rather, the damage one does is calculated by a formula that takes both STR and Attack Power into account.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Because both str and atk power increase both minimum and maximum damage. Test it out sometime.

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what you say is different from this quote:

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Originally Posted by Technolust

^ Confusing as hell, and a little misleading.

STR has no direct effect on ATK Power. STR increase the damage curve of your base attack. Attack Power increases your base attacks ceiling.

Example:

Lets say you have 200 STR, and your regular attack hits anywhere from 50-62, if you add STR to that what would happen is your base attack would be 55-62. By adding just Attack power you'd hit for 50-70.

This is why adding both STR & Attack Power make sense as the combination of the two would not only increase your base attack, but the base attacks ceiling.

(All numbers are fictional and do not represent actual damage of having 200 STR)

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and after read baYohne quote, and got confuse @.@

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

what you say is different from this quote:




and after read baYohne quote, and got confuse @.@

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Yes but the parser Renta posted proves that the damage output of STR alone or ATK alone raises DPS.

If your using STR your base damage is raised causing an increase in DPS, if your using ATK Power your maximum damage is raised causing an increase in DPS.

This is why a combination of the two should increase your damage beyond just the single stat boosts.

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Originally Posted by Technolust

Yes but the parser Renta posted proves that the damage output of STR alone or ATK alone raises DPS.

If your using STR your base damage is raised causing an increase in DPS, if your using ATK Power your maximum damage is raised causing an increase in DPS.

This is why a combination of the two should increase your damage beyond just the single stat boosts.

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But. . . the numbers Renta quoted show 30 Attack beating 20 STR in both minimum and maximum damage.

Fact of the matter is, nobody knows how Attack Power or STR effect the damage one does in explicit detail.

What we do know is that:

• both of them increase the damage done.
• one does not directly influence the other.

Anything beyond those 2 simple facts is a theory at best.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

But. . . the numbers Renta quoted show 30 Attack beating 20 STR in both minimum and maximum damage.

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The point of the image I quoted was to show that a reduction of 20 STR and an increase of 30 ATK had no significant impact on minimum damage, maximum damage, or overall DPS, thus supporting Carraway's 2:3 ratio thesis.

All you have to know is that STR and ATK do the same thing, but STR is more effective, point for point, than ATK.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

The point of the image I quoted was to show that a reduction of 20 STR and an increase of 30 ATK had no significant impact on minimum damage, maximum damage, or overall DPS, thus supporting Carraway's 2:3 ratio thesis.

All you have to know is that STR and ATK do the same thing, but STR is more effective, point for point, than ATK.

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Yeah, I know. I was just saying it in response to Tech's comment about a distinction between base and peak damage.

Honestly, I'd say the entire thing (and the Damage stat on weapons) needs to be tested to hell and back, though it might be wise to wait for the patch in case they change anything. I'd be perfectly willing to help out on these tests, too, if not for my unwillingness to go buy new gear to test with. :p

What's even more interesting is that this is further reinforced by the max stats of materia.

Strength IV: 20
Heaven's Fist IV: 30

20:30

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

But. . . the numbers Renta quoted show 30 Attack beating 20 STR in both minimum and maximum damage.

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Beating by a bare amount, and the entire parser is based off of the 2:3 ratio spread. So those numbers are hardly different. Also it's clear the trial was limited to a very small amount of battles.

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Originally Posted by Technolust

Beating by a bare amount, and the entire parser is based off of the 2:3 ratio spread. So those numbers are hardly different. Also it's clear the trial was limited to a very small amount of battles.

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The point is they both simply increase damage done overall - minimum or maximum. The damage done is very comparable whether you increase your stats by 20 STR or by 30 Attack Power - they can be accepted as identical with the testing done showing the difference being low enough to be well in the standard deviation.

On the other hand, I haven't seen any testing to support that one pushes the maximum while the other pushes the minimum - or anything of the sort.

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Originally Posted by Technolust

Beating by a bare amount, and the entire parser is based off of the 2:3 ratio spread. So those numbers are hardly different. Also it's clear the trial was limited to a very small amount of battles.

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Granted. I'm just saying it doesn't support your base vs. peak model. Of course, more samples would make it more conclusive, but thus far it doesn't seem to be going your way.