[Venting]: Lack of HQ Blue Scrip Materials

Is there a reason we can't get HQ versions of Blue Scrip materials? Are the devs that eager to force RNG on crafters (Like Rapid Synthesis and Hasty Touch aren't annoying enough) regardless of rotation?

Let's not even get into the Demimateria issue. That seems to be a naked attempt to pander to insecure raiders.

Can't speak to the lack of HQ BCS crafting materials. But, look at the Specialist moves. Do you really think, given those moves, that SE is interested in removing RNG from crafting?

From 21 to 50 I can 'completely' remove RnG from crafting and as such I can see patterns where the condition proc's will heckle my rotation in vain attempts to inject RnG in to them.

Inner Quiet, Great strides, Steady Hand, Waste Not. 4 standard touch, 2 Careful synthesis. I can't count the number of times good procs on Steady hand or worse I have an excellent come up on the Steady Hand, leaving a poor on the great strides backed, Standard touch. Add to that, if I remove the Great strides, the good, Excellent will move with it to proc on Steady hand anyway.

So to answer your initial question, yes they desperately, desperately need to jam RnG down our throat. Even when it's futile, it's built in to the game logic to milk us for a few more clicks by gorfing a rotation.

It's almost ironic. 4 star 60 rotation has 11 Hasty touch and 3 Hasty Synth. 14 ways to fail in fail farm 14. Also, I don't want to sound like I'm not appreciating the content issues they face. Without decay and no demand to complete after completion, with success as progress based leveling they need to force fail on us. It's unfortunate that this is what we ended up with but I don't see them adding decay and gear stays done once, done forever dilemma. Also, blue scrip collectability starts at 2600 and that became the HW 'bar' if you will. Even with all HQ mats and gear, you will not get 100% on an at level recipe in HW. You need to have the next set of gear over the recipe to get the stats required to do that. The point being, even if they added all HQ mats we wouldn't be out from under the RnG pendulum.

Crafting without RNG would be boring and easy to automate.
Count me out.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Can't speak to the lack of HQ BCS crafting materials. But, look at the Specialist moves. Do you really think, given those moves, that SE is interested in removing RNG from crafting?

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It's kinda funny because for the most part specialist actions actually remove more RNG than your standard rotation, with heart all but guaranteeing you good procs and whistle giving you CP and durability back to make it easier.

Only sucks when you get that rare occurrence that don't have a delineation and don't get a single good proc in 70 steps. ;(

As for topic I'm still upset that culinarian has to use blue scrip materials for food. But at least it's just food, HQ or not your profit won't be that different.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

It's kinda funny because for the most part specialist actions actually remove more RNG than your standard rotation, with heart all but guaranteeing you good procs and whistle giving you CP and durability back to make it easier.

Only sucks when you get that rare occurrence that don't have a delineation and don't get a single good proc in 70 steps. ;(

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Really? I have a hard time finding any good times to use the Specialist skills in the level 60 Starred crafts. Most of them seem to be either underwhelming/hard to use (Innovative Touch, Trained Hand), or rely on RNG to use (WWYK/Satisfaction, Innovative Touch, Nymeia's Wheel, Trained Hand, Heart of the X).If you're doing any recipe past level 56, the point where you get Good/Excellent procs less often, using Specialism Skills tend to complicate your Rotation since you NEED to rely on the RNG for you to be able to use those skills.

• WWYK needs 2 Goods minimum to be a net gain. Satisfaction can only be used on the 9th, 6th, and 3rd stacks of WWYK.

• Innovative Touch is 8 CP a 40% success rate for 100% efficiency in Quality with the benefit of Innovation I. Hasty Touch is 0 CP and has a 50% success rate, already making it better cost-wise and chance-wise. The benefit of the Innovation buff seems off-placed, as it seems that the Specialism system wants you to swap between using touch and synthesis skills, when a majority of people don't do this.

• Nymeia's Wheel needs enough good procs to be more efficient than the other Durability Restoration skills, even then it's only 10-30 durability restored depending on how low your stacks get, needing 1-3 Whistles. Depending on the level of the craft you're doing, getting to 3 whistle stacks for the best restoration is going to take a while...

• Byregot's Miracle is VERY weak. Not only does it need a Steady Hand II to be 100%, while Byregot's Blessing only needs Steady Hand I, but it maxes out at 210% efficiency compared to Byregot's Blessing's 320%. The effect of using only half your IQ stacks seems mostly pointless, since the Byregot skills are mainly used as the final touch to max out the HQ meter.

• Trained Hand and the hybrid nature of it seems to be very niche. It needs IQ and WWYK stacks to be identical. It also boosts both Progress AND Quality, meaning you can't use it if you need Quality but another synthesis would finish the craft. This means you can only use it once per craft if you don't use Byregot's Miracle. Sure it costs less CP and Durability than using Advanced Touch + Standard Synthesis, but you can't control when you use this skill.

• Heart of the X is simply a gamble. Not only does it need 3 goods to be a net gain in terms of CP, but you need to spend Blue Scrips on an item to use this ability instead of other things like Master Books and crafting materials for either use or profit. Due to how the proc system works, you ONLY have up to 4 chances of a proc during the duration. And if you have to keep using Heart of the X to make these skills useful, then you have to ask how worthwhile it is to spend those blue scrips just to make a craft easier.

Also something to note, Square Enix has buffed/nerfed NONE of these skills since release besides making the Delineations for the Heart of the X easier to purchase. I'm fairly sure they know that the Specialism abilities were a failure and had to keep it relevant by giving it the 20 Craftsmanship/Control buff and allowing Specialists the ability to make Specialists-only items until the next patch removes the requirement for Specialism.

I've actually found a use for Innovative Touch. On rotations where you SH2->WN->HTx4, replace that first HT with IT. If it fails, it hurts. If it succeeds, you're getting roughly five HT's worth of Quality between the IT and the following HT's (assuming THEY succeed, that is).

I'd done some tests recently. Innovation is most often used at the end to provide an additional boost to the BB finisher. But, when used earlier on, over the next three Touches provides roughly one more 100% Efficiency Touch worth of Quality. It also, oddly enough, increases based on your IQ stack. When my 4 star spec GSM was making Platinum Ingots, I was getting 200 (IQ 10) to 262 (IQ 11) additional Quality on 100% Efficiency Touches due to Innovation. A few tests making Seafood Stew (NOT a specialist of mine, so slightly lower stats) showed the gain was around 4 per IQ stack rather than 6 per IQ stack.

Innovative Touch provides a low-cost (high cost compared to HT) higher risk means of getting Innovation in. The only real problems I see with it are the low success rate, and finding a spot within a rotation where you actually are going to make Touches for the following three moves.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

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I use them almost every synth I do for 3 star and above (and have used them for the highest starred crafts at the time since HW launched). Never had an issue, sometimes there are synths where I don't get a single good and that's annoying, but it happens so rarely when you use makers mark it's barely worth mentioning.
Also-the specialist skills save you so much CP that using heart isn't a problem, you don't need 3 goods, just being able to do precise touch from it is helpful enough. Think of it like this: Nymeai's wheel+heart of the crafter, vs using Waste Not II. You get more out of the former for less CP 90% of the time.
Here's a video of my rotation if you are curious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoTNviRaI_Q

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

Really? I have a hard time finding any good times to use the Specialist skills in the level 60 Starred crafts.

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I am quite certain the specialist skills were designed for people who didn't want to be omni-crafters. They give less powerful options for most of the "must-have" skills For people who don't have every class to 50 or 60.

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

I am quite certain the specialist skills were designed for people who didn't want to be omni-crafters. They give less powerful options for most of the "must-have" skills For people who don't have every class to 50 or 60.

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Only really true for innovative touch and byregot's miracle, but more or less yeah.

Though I do find byregot's miracle is rarely pretty good if you get an excellent proc but aren't quite done, because then you can take maximum use of the excellent and still use BB at the end, though I haven't mathed it out to see how much of a gain that is.

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

I am quite certain the specialist skills were designed for people who didn't want to be omni-crafters. They give less powerful options for most of the "must-have" skills For people who don't have every class to 50 or 60.

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They basically were, but crafting is designed to heavily favor omnicrafters and borderline enforce it. Decent idea, absolutely flawed execution.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

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99++ steps 100% HQ with a lot of CP remaining, on Astral Oil while undergeared using all NQ mats. : http://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../blog/2977519/

Honestly speaking though, once adequately geared up the specialist skills aren't really needed, but they do help if you're attempting a tough craft with somewhat low stats.

The problem is that for other crafts that don't use blue scrip mats you can get them in HQ. Being able to buy HQ blue scrip mats would just level the playing field.

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Originally Posted by Deathgiver

I am quite certain the specialist skills were designed for people who didn't want to be omni-crafters. They give less powerful options for most of the "must-have" skills For people who don't have every class to 50 or 60.

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That was the original intention, but that's not what they are, they don't really cover cross class skills, looking at FoxyAreku's video a lot of what he did was possible because of the cross class skills he used, and in fact those specialist actions added a lot of rng compared to the rotation most people use, and not good rng, with specialist actions you have more to lose than the little you can gain if the planets align.

I'm not saying it's impossible to use them, but they aren't really meant to be used for mass crafting things.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

That was the original intention, but that's not what they are, they don't really cover cross class skills, looking at FoxyAreku's video a lot of what he did was possible because of the cross class skills he used, and in fact those specialist actions added a lot of rng compared to the rotation most people use, and not good rng, with specialist actions you have more to lose than the little you can gain if the planets align.

I'm not saying it's impossible to use them, but they aren't really meant to be used for mass crafting things.

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Just to add to this - the whole reason they instituted Specialist Restriction on crafting (cannot craft unless you are that Specialist) is because the Specialization system FAILED at what it was intended to do. People were ignoring the Specialization system when it first came out, because there was no real reason to pay any attention to it. What little testing was done with the Specialization moves only showed that they did not compare with, or adequately replace, the various cross class moves that omnicrafters used. This meant that the general advice remained "crafting is all-or-nothing, level them all for the cross class skills" - something that SE did not want to see.

So rather than actually fix the Specialization system to actually be a benefit, and actually do what they said it was meant to do, they simply locked new recipes behind the system. This had the effect of forcing people who want to craft the new stuff when it is new to take on Specializations. It also keeps Red Crafting Scrip somewhat relevant, as those are the means by which one acquires new Souls of the Crafter to change their Specializations. It also had a minor impact of bringing alts to the high levels, as a few sought to use multiple characters to get around the three Specialists per character limit.

The main problem is, you need 390 CP to create a rotation that gets you inner Quiet stacks for a boosted Byregot's Blessing.


My NQ Blue scrip rotation (omni) is and works on 35, 40 and 70 just add more CS II for 70

Comfort Zone,
Inner Quiet,
Steady Hand II,
Waste Not I,

Basic touch x 4 (use precise when its up - compensate with Hasty for as many CP short you are)
Careful Synth II,
Masters Mend,
Steady Hand II
Basic Touch x 2, (again use precise when it's up - You "need" 74 CP I think to complete finisher, here and you might need to sacrifice one of the 6 touches for a 3rd CS II if you have low gear)
Great strides,
Innovation,
Byregot's Blessing,
Careful Synth II

The goal being to build as many IQ stacks. You can't fill the quality bar using touch skills, like you could in ARR. I use this on all the parts turn in items like Titanium Nuggets, Dark Chestnut and Raimie. Even if I want those items I will craft in collectable mode and just click no to collectable if I get a 100% opting for the HQ. It allows me to craft selective scrip or mats and the 5-10 scrip you get each time do add up. It does eat crystals though so blue scrip according to what ones you have loads of.

Hi Hayward \o/ (I don't use forums much)
HQ Material availability for any type of major material would be great. I'm not as up to date on crafting as I used to be though.. ):

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

My NQ Blue scrip rotation (omni) is and works on 35, 40 and 70 just add more CS II for 70

Comfort Zone,
Inner Quiet,
Steady Hand II,
Waste Not I,

Basic touch x 4 (use precise when its up - compensate with Hasty for as many CP short you are)
Careful Synth II,
Masters Mend,
Steady Hand II
Basic Touch x 2, (again use precise when it's up - You "need" 74 CP I think to complete finisher, here and you might need to sacrifice one of the 6 touches for a 3rd CS II if you have low gear)
Great strides,
Innovation,
Byregot's Blessing,
Careful Synth II

The goal being to build as many IQ stacks. You can't fill the quality bar using touch skills, like you could in ARR.

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This depends upon your stats, actually. For your first 56, no, you won't find it easy to get BCS. Gear up with the white level 60 gear, and it is not that hard. With a full set of i190/i195 Ironworks, it is ridiculously easy. Titanium Nugget, for example, with 983 Craftsmanship, gets completed with one CS2, meaning that one can do a CZ, IQ, WN1, SH2, HTx5 initial set. Follow that with Manipulation, SH2, WN, and then some combination of HT and BT to leave enough CP for SH, GS, Inno, BB, and then a CS2, and you've got your 100%'d Nugget. That's with 936 base Control. As I said, full Ironworks i190/i195. Even without that though, I had gotten an IQ10 (without using PT on the two Goods I got!) on this rotation, which with much less Control would still allow for enough of a BB to 100% it.

That said, it may be easier, depending on level, to do a 70 durability recipe than a 35 or 40 durability recipe. Depending on how you use it, Waste Not 2 may be the best way to play Durability games based on the CP usage, but Master's Mend 2 is generally the best in terms of CP usage per Durability once you factor in practicality. The 70 Durability BCS hand ins will require a lot more in materials per craft, but tend to be worth a lot more BCS as well. Depending on the total number of Progress steps needed, you may start off one way or another :
CZ, IQ, SH2, RS, CS2, HTx3, SH2, HT, MM2, HTx3, SH2, HTx2, GS, Inno, BB, CS2
CZ, IQ, CS2, SH2, HTx5, MM2, SH2, HTx5, SH2, GS, Inno, BB, CS2
Or some variant thereupon, replacing HT's with PT's (early on) and BT's (later on) as CP and Condition permit. Another possible advantage of the 70 Durability recipes is that you have better control (through manually crafting yourself) just how much of your materials are HQ and how much are NQ. You are forced to rely on the luck of the draw for your Titanium Nugget materials, but when you craft the Titanium Ingot, Dragon Leather, Dhalmel Leather, Hardsilver Ingot, and the Grade 1 Dexterity Dissolvent yourself, you are better able to ensure that those refined materials are HQ. The necessity of which is gear dependent; the possibility of it is level dependent.

Personally, when I look at getting BCS, I do the same judgement as getting RCS : what gets me the most (or targeted) level of Scrip with the least hand ins? I'd rather do something for 160 BCS than three somethings for 70 BCS if all I want is 150 BCS.

Do these script mats even contribute a lot to HQ? Haven't touched crafting in 3.4 so my memory is fuzzy but I do recall 1-2 mats per recipe barely pushing the HQ bar to the point it didn't make a difference.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

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For a lot of people getting blue scrip is better done the way you do it but I and I think the OP find they get snagged on bottleneck mats as they add more and more cross class parts. Using the 40 dura recipes with an all basic touch IQ stack system removes both material clutter and gray rotation from Hasty.

If I go out and mine Titanium I mine fire crystals when the node is hidden. Fire is used by Bsm to make the titanium nugget and I am then only obligated to go grab some bomb ash and Iron to do what I want to do. I don't need to mess with unspoiled nodes, I don't need to mess with multiple stacks of parts that evolve in to multiple, multiple stacks of mats. I'm only looking at 1200 BS per 500 Titanium but it's a far more direct path to completion.

Bump because this is still a thing that needs to be added.

Greetings,

Thanks for the feedback regarding the desire to purchase high-quality materials using blue crafters' scrips. We're checking to see if we can add high-quality materials and if all goes well, we're hoping to implement it by the release of Stormblood.

Yes please! This is so frustrating especially when crafting food items.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Is there a reason we can't get HQ versions of Blue Scrip materials? Are the devs that eager to force RNG on crafters (Like Rapid Synthesis and Hasty Touch aren't annoying enough) regardless of rotation?

Let's not even get into the Demimateria issue. That seems to be a naked attempt to pander to insecure raiders.

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Its not a big deal because most items you make need items from nodes and you can get these HQ easyely.

While I like what Innovative Touch can do, I also like to make macros. And since only 3 of my crafters are specialized, by default I can't use any of those skills in any macro I make because the macros need to be used by all my classes, not just the Specialist classes. I could make Specialist specific macros, but that seems like a lot of work.

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Originally Posted by uberrod9

While I like what Innovative Touch can do, I also like to make macros. And since only 3 of my crafters are specialized, by default I can't use any of those skills in any macro I make because the macros need to be used by all my classes, not just the Specialist classes. I could make Specialist specific macros, but that seems like a lot of work.

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Code:

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/ac "Innovative Touch" <me>
/ac "Hasty Touch" <me> <wait.3>

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