Bard using Harp

I always hoped that with one of the upcoming patches, they'd separate bow from bards, make the bard's main weapon a harp and give bow to a different class, like a hunter or sniper. Same as Summoners becoming a pet-oriented class, and its present skills be exclusive to scholars. Summoner should be a standalone job like AST, DRK and MCH.

i like your idea in generel, but i think you are thinking it upside down o.ô

Bard is a job based on Archer. If you want a job wich uses a harp this should be a whole new job. This new job can be the new "Bard" and what we currently know as "Bard" will turn into your "Hunter" or "Sniper". You can't take away the bow from Bard, because 90% of his skills rely on the bow - but you can take away the harp-skills. If you remove the bow, you have thrown away almost the whole class and have to rebuild it from the ground anyway (except you want to shoot arrows with the strings of your harp o.ô; ).

Same for for Summoner and Scholar. The Scholar is the job wich have to become a standalone. Scholar is broken anyway because of all his dps-skills and super mana-regen from his base-class - wich is a DD. Why making Summoner the standalone when the Scholar is the strange part of the two?

I don't see them changing BRD like that.

For a start it would upset a lot of existing BRDs.

More over there isn't a support role for BRD to fit if it just is using a Harp and currently it doesn't look like they are adding one.

In addition to that it would require completely redoing the existing quests and story involving bards and retconing the established lore.

Then there is the fact they would have to redo the itemisation for both new Jobs from 1-60.

I don't see them doing it.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Same for for Summoner and Scholar. The Scholar is the job wich have to become a standalone. Scholar is broken anyway because of all his dps-skills and super mana-regen from his base-class - wich is a DD. Why making Summoner the standalone when the Scholar is the strange part of the two?

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Just a wishful thinking, that bard can use offensive spells using their harps, like Siren does.

For Scholars: Virus, physick, etc. are skills that have a more scientific ring to it, ehich fit scholars more. And Summoners have never had, in most cases, virus-type abilities with them.

I always thought a harp would be a nice off-hand for a brd, but I guess the resources going into making another piece of gear you only see for a second while playing songs wouldn't be worth it.

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Originally Posted by Ralts

For Scholars: Virus, physick, etc. are skills that have a more scientific ring to it, ehich fit scholars more. And Summoners have never had, in most cases, virus-type abilities with them.

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you are probably right... since Arcanist has both - skills of Summoner and Scholar - they have to rework the Arcanist aswell. but still: Scholar should be the standalone job. And a reworked Arcanist > Summoner the other.

I like some of the suggestions some have made but I think that bard should have a OH harp,flute,drum, etc. each one would give a slight buff to a given song. Alternatively maybe any player could get an instrument to be used as a emote.

Honestly, many bard classes in games do not always use musical instruments. Some utilized dagger/swords/ranged weapons since they were essentially assassins that utilized an instrument as a cover of sorts (Dragon Age is a prime example of this). Also keep in mind that some bards didn't utilize instruments at all and would use their voice (For example, FFXI allowed you to just sing your songs if you wanted, just limited how many songs you could have up and their effects). Pretty much, its easier to alter a couple of animations and some lore versus altering every aspect of the job. Maybe even implement a job called Troubadour like Everquest has, since they have both bard and that class.

Lets also keep in mind that its not completely outside the realm of possibility to have jobs sharing the same type of weapon. Even though SCH and SMN were 'intended' to be that way since they originate from one class, people can not honestly believe there is a difference between a cane that a WHM uses and staff that a BLM uses. They are essentially the same thing. So it is easy for SE to just add more jobs with similar weapon types in the future with just different models and stances.

thematically: i like it
in practice: please god no

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

Lets also keep in mind that its not completely outside the realm of possibility to have jobs sharing the same type of weapon. Even though SCH and SMN were 'intended' to be that way since they originate from one class, people can not honestly believe there is a difference between a cane that a WHM uses and staff that a BLM uses. They are essentially the same thing. So it is easy for SE to just add more jobs with similar weapon types in the future with just different models and stances.

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BLM and WHM may be considered two sides of the same coin, but they are not "essentially the same thing". Another thing too is that the BLM weapon is considered a rod, which is slightly smaller than a WHM staff, so no, BLM and WHM technically don't use the same weapon. Also, just because they can make multiple jobs with the same weapon type doesn't make it a good idea. In fact, it's been repeated stated that the ARC/SMN/SCH approach was considered one of the biggest failures in terms of job creation just because of how the stat system effectively barred you from playing both jobs to their fullest without constantly having to buy stat point reset items, and even then, SMN and SCH use mostly the same emotes and animations anyway.

Now back to the main subject, Bards using bows actually makes sense when you read the background for the job, about how it would sing while fighting to bolster their allies and spur them on. The real issue with it right now is really that it's kinda in this sort of role limbo where it could either be more focused on damage or more focused on the songs and the support element, and I don't think anyone really knows which direction to take it in. Heavensward only seems to have made it worse with the whole "bowmage" feel in an attempt to give it more damage (which at first was a failure) and fights at the start of Heavensward being more about how much dps can be done rather than how much the job can bring overall to a raid group (not just damage).

They could split off of archer with a Hunter/Ranger class, utilizing traps and possibly pets. Maybe swap out some of Bard's current attacks with some more magical-based attacks. Hunter/Ranger can be a split between melee and ranged attacks, having a bow/dagger while brd has their bow/harp. I think it can work out, but will it happen? Probably not. But it's fun to speculate these kinds of things.

I have no skin in this game, that said Norleas' idea of a pet class dps Ranger sounds really fun. As for the caster Bard side, a pure support/healer job would be nice. Can never to many healers.

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

I have no skin in this game, that said Norleas' idea of a pet class dps Ranger sounds really fun. As for the caster Bard side, a pure support/healer job would be nice. Can never to many healers.

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Unless 4.0s "Gameplay Update" is some massive overhaul (it won't be) we'll never see a pure support. I really wish it wasn't true. I love support clases, but the ones we have in XIV are so bland. We already have the Hybrid in AST and the Pure healer in WHM. They can't reduce their damage any more than it already is or else their soloing would be godawful.

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Originally Posted by Norleas

They could split off of archer with a Hunter/Ranger class, utilizing traps and possibly pets. Maybe swap out some of Bard's current attacks with some more magical-based attacks. Hunter/Ranger can be a split between melee and ranged attacks, having a bow/dagger while brd has their bow/harp. I think it can work out, but will it happen? Probably not. But it's fun to speculate these kinds of things.

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This will never happen because the 'one class splitting into multiple Jobs' experiment was considered a failure as shown all too clearly by the problems with SMN and SCH coming off ACN. Yoshi is on record in the past saying this specifically that they will not be doing multiple Jobs on a single class again. So I hate to say it but RNG will never be a new Job for ARC as SE simply will not be returning to that concept again. If RNG is added to the game, expect it to be a totally different class and Job separate from ARC and BRD.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

Lets also keep in mind that its not completely outside the realm of possibility to have jobs sharing the same type of weapon.

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You're falling into the old trap of only looking at this game through a FFXI prism again - that idea is simply not possible with the current system. The Armoury System is not like FFXI's Job system where Job and weapon are completely separate concepts, here your Job/class is your weapon (why else does the class/Job icon almost always show the weapon?). To make the same weapon associated with different classes and Jobs would require the entire existing system to be scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up, an expensive, time consuming and ultimately pointless exercise. I've said it before and I'll continue to argue this point - there is nothing wrong fundamentally with the Armoruy System at it's core ideas and principles - one weapon per class and Job upgrading from that is fine. The problem is trying to prevent classes and Jobs simply rehashing ideas and concepts after one another, which was also an issue believe it or not in FFXI too (by Wings of the Goddess the FFXI development team were stating how difficult it was to come up with new Jobs which simply did not reuse older Job ideas, concepts and roles in a party). Of course there is nothing wrong with trying to improve on things, but that does not mean completely replacing the existing system with something else.

Tinkering around the edges with experiments that end up not working as well as planned is another issue that has to be faced as well - as it just ultimately makes the whole thing inconstant, but that is another argument entirely.

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Originally Posted by Reinfeld

Unless 4.0s "Gameplay Update" is some massive overhaul (it won't be) we'll never see a pure support. I really wish it wasn't true. I love support clases, but the ones we have in XIV are so bland. We already have the Hybrid in AST and the Pure healer in WHM. They can't reduce their damage any more than it already is or else their soloing would be godawful.

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Yeah I agree with you it probably won't happen but my inner RO player was excited for a second there.

Why should an Archer fight with a Harp?
What bow using class should ranger get (Bard have already the Archer)?

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Originally Posted by Norleas

They could split off of archer with a Hunter/Ranger class, utilizing traps and possibly pets.

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After the feedbacks about Summoner and Scholar sharing the same stats, no other class will get 2 jobs.

I would love them adding this personally, but I agree with what most others have said in that it's too impratical to ever be implemented

I'm for this idea, as a BRD main since 2.0 I have always considered the harp a tool, as it was never really featured in the class outside of the lovely Artemis Bow. But as BRD has been the subject to many questionable development choices the class seemingly has no real identity as it stands, it's a supportive class that is way to situational, a cleanser thanks to Wardens, and DPS. While most players say it's impractical, think about this likely ingame situation, ever have a healer and a tank go down in 8 or 24 player content and the BRD has to think about "Do I Ballad dead heals or do I Paeon dead tank?" The entire class is built on impractical ideas that clash with the trinity system. There is away that SE could have implemented harps as a OH, but doing that would have to end the trinity and classify BRD as a support role.

It's a shame they aren't doing split jobs anymore, since that's the only way I can see this idea coming to life. Unless they give BRD an entirely new class.

While i do enjoy cheating by getting to level 2 jobs for the price of one, they really should split sch and smn. Give scholars measures for weapons (fits their abilities better anyways) and give them different dps abilities. Let smn keep the dots, but give tjem other options instead of physick, etc. physick on smn is pathetically weak as it is....