This is where useless rants go so here goes:
A month or two ago I was just starting to tell my friends that FFXIV was shaping up. With the info about Ver2.0 with release dates, I started telling friends they should consider returning at that time.
"They are really making sweeping changes. Battle is fun, targeting is fixed. New content is here with more and more on the horizon. The materia system is cool!"
Good stuff.
But then, the PL'ing debaucle.
It seems this game is going in the direction of, "Who the hell cares about leveling. Let's skip through to the end-game so we can spam the two end-game dungeons for a month and then get bored and quit."
I played that game before, it was called Kingdom Under Fire and it blew goat nuts. You have fun for a week or so. Then you get in a party with experienced players, level up to max in a day, go fight the end boss the next day, and then you are done. Game over.
This game does not have enough end game content to support this mentality. It never will. As we all know, hardcore players can clear new content faster then it can be created. Even if the success conditions are frustratingly random and the drop rates for loot is excruitiatingly low.
The only way to overcome this is to provide incentives for players to enjoy a variety of the content - with new players preferrably. It's not like leveling up was exactly satisfying. I'm quite glad that Leves are a thing of the past. Although some new Leves with some variety would have been nice. The most fun I've had are in the EXP parties, but after your third or fourth class leveling through Raptors you notice that there's not a lot of depth there.
It's like this game has fast forwarded to the end-end-game where everone is bored of everything and they haven't even started charging yet! They are going to make the same mistake as last time, premature action.
Predict: Game will take a massive hit to population at subscriptions and failure will ensue.
Remeber all the polls about who is staying and who is leaving? Well let's take a repoll now that the majority of the population has fast-tracked their way to every meaningful goal. You have a 50 in every class you wanted right? Just PL up to 40 and then Spiritbind Party to 50. 2-3 days tops. Lame.
So what do I tell my friends about FFXIV now?
"Well, I'm afraid it's turned into one of those games where you PL to the end and then complete the final dungeon and quit." They nod knowingly. We have all played that game before. You may be willing to play that game for free, but you certainly don't pay for it.
My hopes for the future are sputtering out yet again.
How PL'ing killed FFXIV.
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11-17-2011, 03:21 AMSmashingtonHow PL'ing killed FFXIV.
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11-17-2011, 03:24 AMQuatre
How FFXIV Killed FFXIV.
This game is lacking on content, but have you done it all?
Have you cleared Darkhold in 25minutes, Have you killed Ifrit, Have you killed all of the stronhold NMs?
More threads like this are just breeding grounds for redundant posts concerning this topic. -
11-17-2011, 03:28 AMAlerith
To be completely honest, most people who blast past the whole leveling process aren't at a skill level to do content like Darkhold or Ifrit.
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11-17-2011, 03:28 AMDeadRiser
No sense of progression. Some like progression, others don't.
I like progression and I feel like I'm leveling up to do an Ifrit fight and that's it. I miss grind parties where people actually had to use some kind of skill to level up. Not just sit there and let things get killed for you. The funnest times to level up was the low ranks and that is getting skipped all the way to 35ish -
11-17-2011, 03:33 AMgrandm
power leveling will not kill the game. nobody is forcing anybody to power level so you and for friends can take your time. i know this because, i don't power level and nor do my mates and we get on just fine.
you do bring up one good point OP i remember all the "will you leave now you have to pay" rage polls that came out when we were told about the subs that are coming. it would be intresting to do a poll see how ppl feel now they dust has settled, but on the other hand would it really be a good idea stiring up that hornets nest again? -
11-17-2011, 03:41 AMIssac
I feel the same. Actually, I angrily debated this subject for days. The developers and Yoshida respond, but the joke was on me. The compromise was the powerleveling person must be outside the party. Good lot of help that did. Let's take turns rounding up the mobs. I'll take a nap. No wait, I'll play some pokemanz.
Tch, bitch please. This is a god damn MMO, work for your progress. Oh wait, the new generation is lazy as hell.
Face it, Smashington. We're old farts now. Personally, I'm not even 30 yet. But based on the majority response that I have seen, my ideals are old as old can be. Everyone wants the world handed to them. I'll just wait for the next Korean grind and hope like hell it isn't another WoW-clone. While not an optimal experience, it is the closest I'll get to a real MMO. When is RO2 coming out? Yeesh. -
11-17-2011, 03:43 AMEstellios
If you were PL'd it's really your own fault.
I'm working on Gladiator for Ifrit with my friend's MRD and we are voluntarily duoing without any issue at all, joining up with random people that pass by the camps we're at, and even once some random dude PL'd us for like 30 minutes for no reason. I don't hate PLing and I'd take it if it was offered, but we have more fun duoing normally. You don't need anywhere near a full party to get some great XP so you can just make friends-only groups for XPing and have a good time.
People need to man up and take responsibility for how they play the game because playing it one way then complaining about it is kinda dumb, as is complaining about how other people play. Many more people benefit from the option of being PL'd and keeping options open in this regard is good. -
11-17-2011, 03:46 AMIssacThe topic has been debated to death. Sure, you can duo. You can trio, as well. But what if you want to get with a full party? Good luck dodging the powerlevel inevitability.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estellios
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11-17-2011, 03:55 AMEstellios
You'd just have to deal with it if you want a full party. There's nothing mechanically different except the strength of the enemies you have to fight. I think it was you that made the thread about people bringing friends to PL unannounced which is the only bad thing about it IMO. Lay down ground rules and go with what's available instead of always wanting to be a full party just because you can.
People have aversions to "spam fest" parties and smaller parties feel more tactical and fun to me. -
11-17-2011, 04:01 AMShneibel
I do agree PL make some ppl bored and quit the game atm because it lack of end game content but later at 1.21 and futher to 2.0 is not something we know or predict, all you can see is atm
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11-17-2011, 04:02 AMNikita
Not everyone considers grinding out levels to be actual content. I have never logged into an MMO thinking "mm yay I get to spend all day grinding levels wee". Leveling, to me, is just a grind. It can be long and it can be short. I am glad they shortened it, I am actually leveling other classes now.
I am having fun. Not leveling, but by doing end game content. To say PLing killed FFXIV is ignorant. To say skipping the monotonous grind causes you to miss out on learning your class is also ignorant. The classes we have aren't even all that complex.
FFXIV isn't dead, PLing didn't kill it. The only thing(s) that died were a few of my brain cells while reading the OP. FFXIV has so much going for it. And if you think it will be lacking content in any regard after 2.0, you are seriously out of the loop... -
11-17-2011, 04:11 AMAlerithSorry, but if you plan on using a raid or boss to learn your job, I don't want you in my group. It's ignorant to say you don't need to learn as you level. The jobs may not be all that complex, but proper use of what your job is capable of is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita
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11-17-2011, 04:20 AMNikitaYou learn the fights. There is not much in the way of learning your class. Its pretty simple. Aggro bar red? Stop DPSing. Low MP? Stop casting and stand still. Tank is taking damage? Cast a heal, watch aggro meter still. Its pretty universal across all classes, the rest is as I said, learning the fight mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
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11-17-2011, 04:32 AMAdvancedWindBecause everyone learned how to dodge Ifrit's moves or to speed run Dzemael by killing raptors for days, rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
I do think that regular leveling up is important to learn the basics, but it's nowhere near the real deal. And yes, in most new content we do have to learn everything besides those basics (almost) anyone learned when he was level 30 on his first class. -
11-17-2011, 04:32 AMRemVyeThis is utterly hilarious... here is the OP's break down : http://xivpads.com/?6533245Quote:
Originally Posted by Quatre
Classes
50 glad
50 sentinel
37 con
36 pug
28 armorer
everything else 10 or 20ish
No kills on Ifrit
No kills on Batraal
12 / 40 NM slayed
3 / 42 Faction leve complete
28 / 134 quest complete
Clearly all the content in the game is complete for him, now the game is boring and nothing to do :( -
11-17-2011, 04:46 AMIrondude
I think part of the frustration is how hard 20-30 is to level and then you hit 35-50 and its like butter. People feel entitled to faster exp, and are unwilling to try a normal party. That last ten to fifteen levels should be the longest, not something you do in a day.
it took me 3 months to get thm to 50 and 2 weeks to get lancer to 50 post 1.19. Yikes that's a huge change. What you are failing to think about is a level cap increase. That will surely bring people back. It's not powerleveling that is killing the game its the exp/difficulty in the strongholds, its just flat out to easy and quick to level. -
11-17-2011, 05:21 AMBaxter
For those who are saying 'don't join PL parties' I think you are missing his point just a bit. If there were a comparison perhaps it would be more akin to allowing a teenager to take all the tests for a six year old to join him sooner in college studies, but there are only two courses available. In one day the six year old is now in college, but taking the same two tests over and over again so they (teenager and the six year old) drop out - out of boredom, and start smoking crack.
Obviously the six year old never sees the negative side effects of breezing through all twelve grades. He just wants to get it all over with. The boredom(and crack) hurts the six year old and college student. The accelerated powerleveling through various grades with only two repeatable courses available hurts the educational institution as they cannot keep students this way; they all quit (and do crack). -
11-17-2011, 05:29 AMCrystalWeaponYou know exagerations are just like murdering the elderly right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter
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11-17-2011, 05:35 AMXatsh
The game simply does not have the endgame content to warrant it being that easy to cap out a jobs fighting classes.
That is how it is killing the game, it is forcing people to wait for the next patch which is hurting many linkshells with serious people in them. My ls alone has many people with capped fighting classes and ifrit and settlements only will last so long... SE negated everything else (One of the major reasons there is such a lack of stuff to do atm)...........
SE needs to get it where you can do 4-5 hrs of endgame stuff a night without it getting horribly boring or repetitive. That is the main issue with the game atm honestly. All the fixes to the servers and everything else will not fix the huge lack of content atm. If they stop negating stuff, everything will be fine it will slowly build up like in XI, if they negate stuff every patch the game will only have enough content to warrant playing it 10hrs a week (which will kill the game).
How Pwrlvling is killing the game, it is rushing you to the end skipping all mid lvl content. Once you are at the end you will have a ton of fun for like 2-3 weeks. Then doing the same 2 events gets boring as all get out. People in LS's take breaks, that makes you not able to do the content anymore, forces you to take a break or quit. That there is how pwrlvl is killing the game. It is now pwrlvl alone, it is that combined with the lack of content. -
11-17-2011, 05:35 AMGriss
I do think there is merit to the learn over time slowly adding in new elements when old ones are mastered technique.
For a new player gross misuse of power leveling can be very detrimental. For those of us with a more firm grasp on the game mechanics its not so bad. That's not to say that there are not class specific nuances every body should pick up.
Heck when i get new skills i like to take a bit of "Me time" to figure out how and if they can be incorporated into my basic set up and if they can open up any new tricks i can pull off with what i already have. But that is from the perspective of some one who is a "seasoned vet". Giving a brand spanking newb a massive amount of things to choose from is akin to giving a monkey a gun, Your not sure if he can use it but your mostly hoping he does not shoot you. -
11-17-2011, 05:40 AMOverkill9000
umm i say there just needs to be more camps. i either go out to a party location and there is some pl group just wiping it... or even just another group i would prefer not to contend with out of respect. and i don't think i have enough anima to just keep going to different camps to find it is taken up again. pl doesn't bother me and i partake in it quite frequently, i see nothing wrong with it.
more camps pls!
edit: although i'm getting sick of the noobs in our ls constantly whining for pl handouts. it's like they want to be carried through the game. making ppl spoiled a bit. i usually won't pl noobs lol and usually only my friends' subs -
11-17-2011, 05:40 AMQuatre^. I'm not even halfway done with all of the content and I've done a LOT. I highly doubt I'm going to manage to finish everything before 1.20Quote:
Originally Posted by RemVye
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11-17-2011, 05:50 AMBaxtercrack murders the elderlyQuote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
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11-17-2011, 05:55 AMninesunzDon't know where you've been bro but every MMO suffers from "hardcore players can clear new content faster then it can be created."Quote:
Originally Posted by Smashington
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11-17-2011, 05:59 AMIssacIt's euthanasia, get it right!Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon
And damn straight, I hope someone kills me before it becomes too painful to live. Brave New World ftw. -
11-17-2011, 06:02 AMSephrick
The notion that PLing is some rampant issues is just total bs. I've leveled three classes to 50 via pick up groups and not a single one even mentioned the desire for a power leveler. This whole thing is being blown out of proportion.
XIV isn't like other MMOs. MMOs that fail are either given the F2P microtransaction treatment or just laid to rest. But SE wants subs, because it's a matter of pride to not let a numbered iteration die.
So their situation is this: they have people who spent a year doing nothing but grinding with the promise that changes were coming. They're designing a new version of the game but need an additional year to complete it. In the mean time they have a bunch of people who have been capped since before 1.19 now wanting something to do other than grind more, especially if they're going to be charged subs. With so many resources tied up in 2.0, options are limited.
They made the choice to make enough capped content for their capped community to keep them busy for a year. But what about new people? Capped players won't give a shit about mid level content, so why waste the resources to develop content few will play? Just look at the chocobo escort and level 30 GC leves. The only reason they're in the game is because they're carbon copies of the high level versions. Very little is needed to add them to the game.
So a decision had to be made, if the focus of v1 is going to be that capped crowd, then new players need to reach cap at a reasonable pace, especially since all of the v1 events will be gone or altered in v2.
If it takes someone 6 months to a year to cap their first class, what would be the point of starting prior to v2? Sure, they'll get a head start. But without a character at cap they'll miss out on most of the incentive to pay the sub.
Clinging to the idealism that "MMOs should be about leveling" just isn't a reality for XIV, and that realization has to come from looking at the bigger picture. They have to design for people who already earned their grind stripes but still not alienate potential new players in their "one-time event."
Power leveling or a brief grind won't be the death of XIV. The decision responsible for that was and always will be the 2010 release date. Everything after that is just a valiant effort by a dedicated development team to either salvage the game while covering all bases or to go down swinging.
In an ideal world, XIV would have been released with fully-realized content for all level ranges, functioning party search and linkshell management tools, a complete storyline, stats that mattered, group events, a reasonable method of navigating the market wards and a myriad of other concepts that should be the bare bones basics of an MMORPG at this point in gaming.
But that's not what SE did.
The original idea was for XIV to go against the grain of its predecessor. Now Yoshida and crew have no choice but to commit to that notion in their own way. -
11-17-2011, 06:11 AMdarkstarpoet1i have to disagree. when you have a level 48 con in the party that doesn't have chainspell nor raise II on their bar because and didn't know they had it nor what they do then the power leveling issue is major. people complained that leve groups were bad because you could get 100-150k in a night in an actual group, but at least then they knew what abilities they got.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
getting 500k+ in a few hours while sitting on a chocobo causes those issues to happen. power leveling leads to horrible players that don't have a clue of what they are doing on the class they just capped. -
11-17-2011, 06:11 AMLakefingers
1. You are playing a game without much content. (includes grinding content and exploration content)
2. There will not be much content for quite some time.
3. This should be obvious by now. -
11-17-2011, 06:22 AMIssacA compromising argument, Sephrick. This is an angle that I refused to acknowledge, but the way you presented it left me no choice but to accept. However...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
I already dropped one linkshell because of PL. And I'm considering dropping another because there's constant PL requests/offers at least once an hour. I can't give a certain number, but ballpark figure, about 55-70% of parties I partake in start talking about bringing in a PL within given time. Maybe I'm just unlucky?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephrick
The thing is, I don't understand it. It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would even want to overuse PLing. To me, it nullifies the entire point of a MMO. Endgame, in any MMO I have ever played, wasn't all that important to me. What was always the best part is the progression to achieve the ability to partake in endgame.
I don't understand the hype about getting to endgame as quickly as possible. To give an analogy, the concept of that style of gameplay (In my opinion) is like trying to ride a carriage with square wheels. Bumpy and not very enjoyable. -
11-17-2011, 06:23 AMBaxterI'm not saying I don't think PL'ing is ridiculous, but i also feel it is not my place to tell people how to play. Bad part is you run into people like that. Good part is it is usually a one time experience then you can write that person off. There are also people who have had a level 50 and came back to the game recently, and they are getting reacquainted with the system and adjusting to all the changes. I think it is kind of hard to say if this is a product of PL'ing or drastic changes to people who haven't played in a long time, most of them since before 1.18.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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11-17-2011, 06:30 AMviion
I power levelled.
I loved it.
I am often the only one to survive when a PT dies.
I am probably better than half of you.
Because I have common sense.
PLing brought me back to XIV.
Levelling by hitting the same mob over and using the same stuff over in the same area with the same tactics and same setup does not prepare you for any end-game content and I 100% guarantee you will adjust your play style from Grinding to doing the events. -
11-17-2011, 06:35 AMSephrickI can concede to the fact that my frame of reference may not be indicative of the norm, but beyond that I stand by the remainder of my post and appreciate your response.Quote:
I already dropped one linkshell because of PL. And I'm considering dropping another because there's constant PL requests/offers at least once an hour. I can't give a certain number, but ballpark figure, about 55-70% of parties I partake in start talking about bringing in a PL within given time. Maybe I'm just unlucky?
The thing is, I don't understand it. It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would even want to overuse PLing. To me, it nullifies the entire point of a MMO. Endgame, in any MMO I have ever played, wasn't all that important to me. What was always the best part is the progression to achieve the ability to partake in endgame.
I don't understand the hype about getting to endgame as quickly as possible. To give an analogy, the concept of that style of gameplay (In my opinion) is like trying to ride a carriage with square wheels. Bumpy and not very enjoyable.
I'm in the boat of people who are adverse to being powerleveled. But as my previous post shows, I just view it as a necessary evil given XIV's circumstance. -
11-17-2011, 06:36 AMZiar
"2-3 days max to 50"
Not our fault you sit on your ass for 8+ hours a day playing a game
They should keep PL'ing to repay us for the torment of FFXI leveling -
11-17-2011, 06:39 AMdarkstarpoet1i'm not saying i think all power leveling is bad. i don't mind for example a con that needs an ability from thm to be able to get another class ranked up via power leveling to help their main class out. what i do mind is when people power level each class to get all classes to cap and put in no work for them and have no clue of what they are doing. if that person ranked up pre-1.18 they have a clue of how to play their job because at least leve parties taught you more about your class than you learn now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter
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11-17-2011, 06:46 AMBaxternot really, all i remember is spamming aoe healing and buffs to get a piece of the pie.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1
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11-17-2011, 06:47 AMviionWhen I first got PL'd I did 1-20 in like an hr by /follow and playing xbox, then I did 20-40 while I was asleep and went to work, and then I did 40-50 in 3hrs by standing in a PT chatting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziar
Dun no where u got ur 8hr from.
Now though, 4-5hrs pling to get 1-40, then next day 40-50 by in a pt for 3hrs. About 8 hrs max XD however you split it. -
11-17-2011, 06:56 AMZiar1-20 "in like an hour" Translation : 2-4 hoursQuote:
Originally Posted by viion
Oh thats nice you admit to afk leveling thats cool
And you will not go from 40-50 in a pt in 3 hours -
11-17-2011, 06:59 AMdarkstarpoet1which is more than you do sitting on a chocobo now. if you tossed a single heal in one single leve party from 1-50 it's more than you do the entire push from 1-50 now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter
now besides that. i remember leve parties and each time i got a skill i had to test it out to see what it does. that's whether it was cure, cure II, shadowsear, or anything else. you could see the ability coming because you did not go up in ranks at this break neck speed. you learned not only what skill you got, but what the skill did when leveling slower. at this point you don't look forward to any ability because you are a few levels past them before you even realize you got them. -
11-17-2011, 07:00 AMdarkstarpoet1i can drag a char from 1-20 in less than an hour honestly. i know because i've done it multiple times. 40-50 you are looking at 2-3 hours at a max.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziar
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11-17-2011, 07:03 AMNeroI liked that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by RemVye
You also could say he gained 228 Achievements, which is basically a low number.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...cicuid=6533245
228 / 704 Achievements Thats hardly 33% of the current Game Content. And this DOES NOT include the multiple times you have to repeat something, i.e. Dungeons/Ifrit/Stronghold. You dont get Achievements for everything, but basically he dont even did the Maincontent and didnt explore/experienced the Game really much.
With the current system its not really hard to go from 40 -> 50 in around 3 Hours. Just build a 8 Man Party at 40ish and go to Strongholds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziar
P.S. Dont forget to create a "/p Congratulations" Macro.