Suggestion: Vulkan API

I would like to suggest implimenting Vulkan API calls for FFXIV.

I've heard that the porting isn't so bad from DirectX to Vulkan and in doing so would allow the game to run on all OS (Mac, Linux, etc) with the same quality/speed (if not more so) than DX12.

I don't really know what Engine is used for development, I'm assuming it's a pure in house based IDE/engine that nobody outside of SE has used or has access to.

So perhaps a modification to that engine could allow for a port using Vulkan API calls to be instantiated (similar to how DX9 & DX12 builds are generated) during build and compile time -- then that would be huge. It would allow the game to run in native, high quality on whichever OS, for whatever video card AMD, Nvidia, etc.

I understand that there's a LOT of behind the scenes, so I understand if this just isn't feasible, if politics or even just tight schedules interfer.

Just suggesting in case it hasn't been considered yet.

Thanks,
- Biri Dreisan

Bump: https://youtu.be/TBe1AVFmKEo?t=50s

This just in. Look how Vulkan API pulls ahead.

Vulkan works in PS4, X1, PC, MAC and Linux. vs DX only works in Windows and other platform are natively support it (emulated).

Info: https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/0...-graphics-api/

What would be the point exactly? FFXIV is already pretty damn optimized as it is. It runs on max settings even on some slightly older machines as long as they aren't potatoes.

In other games that were newer and more intensive, or having issues in DirectX I'd agree. But this seems like "Lets do this for reasons. Vulkan is new." FFXIV already runs on MacOSX and PS4. Hell it runs on PS3, though not for long (and Vulkan won't help it stay on PS3). The only benefit would be a Linux use. But everyone running Linux already has Windows or PS4 to game on (just a sad fact of being a Linux user).

Sounds like the reason is the API (based on post title.) :)

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

What would be the point exactly? FFXIV is already pretty damn optimized as it is. It runs on max settings even on some slightly older machines as long as they aren't potatoes.

In other games that were newer and more intensive, or having issues in DirectX I'd agree. But this seems like "Lets do this for reasons. Vulkan is new." FFXIV already runs on MacOSX and PS4. Hell it runs on PS3, though not for long (and Vulkan won't help it stay on PS3). The only benefit would be a Linux use. But everyone running Linux already has Windows or PS4 to game on (just a sad fact of being a Linux user).

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I wouldn't mind a different API option. For some reason I can't figure out I cannot run the game in dx11 without it crashing with dx errors after 5 or 6 teleports. This is consistent since the dx11 version was released even with an upgrade from a gtx970 type a gtx1080. I have pondered it being an issue with my AMD FX 8350, but it's such a slight possibility that, at this point, I'm not rebuilding my whole system architecture with a new CPU just so I can play 1 game in dx11 (it should be noted that FFXIV is the only game I have dx11 crashing issues).

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

What would be the point exactly? FFXIV is already pretty damn optimized as it is. It runs on max settings even on some slightly older machines as long as they aren't potatoes.
*snip*

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The point is allow at ease for developer having to deal with different system due to native API, non-native API and some API run very poor on some platform causes massive FPS drop. Developer has to keep adjusting multi assets for each platform on every new contents. This also cause the game to have extra assets.

If you ever work as coding for web back 10 years ago. I have to develop websites work and look the same as in IE9 and Firefox/Chrome. IE9 sometime doesn't render the structure the way you wanted and you have to constantly add hack workaround for IE9. It was pain and extra codes.

Example, FFXIV on Mac is run on Transgaming emulator for DX wrap around. If Vulkan supported. It wouldn't need Transgaming, that save the money for having to deal with third party. + game will run metal on metal. MacOS runs on Metal but Metal sits somewhere between OpenGL and Vulkan.

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Originally Posted by MiniTofu

The point is allow at ease for developer having to deal with different system due to native API, non-native API and some API run very poor on some platform causes massive FPS drop. Developer has to keep adjusting multi assets for each platform on every new contents. This also cause the game to have extra assets.

...

Example, FFXIV on Mac is run on Transgaming emulator for DX wrap around. If Vulkan supported. It wouldn't need Transgaming, that save the money for having to deal with third party. + game will run metal on metal. MacOS runs on Metal but Metal sits somewhere between OpenGL and Vulkan.

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This is precisely the point. Potentially easier long term development, wider scale adoption, and better, or at the very least, equal performance than DirectX.

Just speculating, but I think I have seen FFXIV events with DirectX as a sponsor, so perhaps there's absolutely no chance of anything other than DirectX being used for this reason...

Hey ^^ Just a small bump, Vulkan support was a great suggestion :]

Bump, would LOVE for this to happen!

do they even know what a linux is in japan?

There is literally only one major game that supports Vulkan API: DOOM (2016). The upcoming DOOM Eternal will be the second.

No one except ID Software uses Vulkan for many good reasons, the most important one of which is that Vulkan is a low-level API and no developer wants to invest the significant time and resources optimizing the engine for a low-level API besides ID who do it mainly for ideological purposes. (ID was also the only developer that supported OpenGL instead of Direct3D back in the day too.)

All Macs and Linux machines can dual-boot into Windows. It has long been the accepted solution for PC gamers who like using Macs or Linux to boot into Windows to play their games. FFXIV is a well-optimized game which uses Direct3D 9 and 11 on Windows. I might add that the game also has a PS4 client which the developers also need to direct development resources towards.

Maybe you should be asking for the development team of this game which is constantly stretched for resources as it is to focus on the engine and platform they already have the game running well on instead of some API that literally no one except ID Software uses.

When Vulkan is faster, it's faster for a reason. I don't like that reason.

Back in the early 90s, games for Dos didn't have apis for graphics, audio, etc. I started learning C++ many, many years after Dos was considered a thing. Naturally, I was very confused when I looked at an early port of Doom's code for Dos (the code was released for Linux only due to licensing troubles with the audio code).

To blit pixels to the screen, you copied a 320x200 buffer of 8-bit color values to memory address 0xA0000. I was truly amazed.

As for audio, later re-implementations of the audio code revealed that, to play sound, you had to pretty much directly program the Soundblaster or whatever card you were using directly. Yikes.

The result was that all the hardware you ever possibly wanted to support in the future had to have support hard-coded into the program at the time of writing it.

Then came along DirectX and OpenGL, which introduced the idea of a "middle-man".

The program tells DirectX what to do. DirectX tells the driver what to do. The Driver tells the physical hardware what to do. Problem solved.

However, such functionality takes time, like any other form of computations on the planet.

The solution to slow "middle-men"? Make the programmer do all the work. In other words, we've gone full-circle.

Just like how Windows 8 and various menus in Windows 10 resemble Windows 3.1 more than Windows XP/Vista/7. People forget about how things used to be and bring old bad ideas as "good" ideas.

The point is, it's not as simple as simply "switching apis". When switching to Vulkan or other apis that use the same idea (like DirectX 12), you need to rewrite a ton of functionality that is already provided for you in DirectX 11.

This is obviously never happening, maybe in a new MMO game SE eventually releases, but not this one, we're already going to 5.0 there is no way they would invest so many resources in a game that is probably beyond half of his life already.
I'll be happy enough if they improve the anti-aliasing support in this game

This is something that would be very beneficial for players that are looking to switch from Windows to Linux due to the privacy concerns/telemetry option in Windows 10 [Please don't start an argument about this]
Linux has become a viable platform for playing video games (With Lutris or Valve's Proton)

Some players have already got it working in certain setups (As per here: https://lutris.net/games/final-fanta...-realm-reborn/ ) but it would need to have an option for FFXIV going forward.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

do they even know what a linux is in japan?

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You're joking right? They have some of the most hardcore computer nerds on the planet.

Linux isn't an officially supported OS, though. SE would likely consider W.I.N.E. and other projects similar to it to be forms of third-party software.

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Originally Posted by Colino

You're joking right? They have some of the most hardcore computer nerds on the planet.

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Still they have the worst PC game ports of all time XD

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Originally Posted by Legewiel

Still they have the worst PC game ports of all time XD

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Well, they all using Linux for nerd stuff and consoles for gaming.
Mystery solved

There is DXVK for Linux and it runs super nice, ya it has some over-head and it''s not perfect in every aspect but it's overhead is very very minimal if you want to give it a try.