Monk/Trailer theory

I had already posted this in the there is no dancer (yet) thread, but I have a bad feeling it'll get drowned out, so I'll post this theory here as well.

Some people say that in the trailer they used some of the monk forms like fists of fire and fists of wind. Now with that in mind remember what was mentioned at the fest about the battle system getting updated, and useless skills getting repurposed. Featherfoot isn't the only pointless skill in the monks endgame arsenal, two of our forms can't ever be used during an endgame battle by any means: the fists of wind and the fists of earth. So, what if the devs update the other two forms to change the monks fighting style? And not just change the fighting style, but change the abilities as well to suit the different form of martial arts?

We'll use the trailer as a good example for that. If the forms did get repurposed then the monk could change their style to suit that form as said before. The fists of fire being a more offence, heavy attacker focused form.

The fists of wind being perhaps, a more lightweight and flowing form like how the woman in the trailer was. Maybe something that promotes fast attacks and evasion.

The fists of earth would be a tough one to pin down, obviously since it was a form used for defense at earlier levels, maybe it would promote a higher defense and could possibly focus on something like counterattacking, or using the damage they receive to buff themselves.

Just some speculation there on my part. If there are any martial artists on this forum that would like to help elaborate on this, please do.

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Originally Posted by Arcsol93

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I'll be honest, I didn't read past the first sentence because that's a little...silly. You had a theory but you did not want your theory to be drowned out by other opinions so you created another thread. Question: If your theory was good and you did post it in said thread (which is pretty much talking about what you are now....making speculation on a teaser trailer which is for only hype), wouldn't people simply acknowledge? Sorry I'm just not seeing the point in making another thread about the same thing, other than (to be blunt) "I'm a special snowflake in a snow storm." I will applaud you for being honest about why you made the thread though. Not many people do that on here.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

I'll be honest, I didn't read past the first sentence because that's a little...silly. You had a theory but you did not want your theory to be drowned out by other opinions so you created another thread. Question: If your theory was good and you did post it in said thread (which is pretty much talking about what you are now....making speculation on a teaser trailer which is for only hype), wouldn't people simply acknowledge? Sorry I'm just not seeing the point in making another thread about the same thing, other than (to be blunt) "I'm a special snowflake in a snow storm."

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Says the person who didn't read past the first sentence to virtue signal about how somebody else is a special snowflake.

The theory is good, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean people will pay attention to it. Hell even being its own thread doesn't mean people will pay attention to it.

A good counter theory to the "What about a Dancer?" speculation. Would certainly be welcome given that, as you say, Fist of Earth and Fist of Wind are by and large utterly useless.
Seeing them reworked and given more use would certainly be welcome.

Honestly, I think people are reading into the trailer a bit too much. The Heavensward trailer did three things:

1. It told us it would be set in Ishgard.
2. It told us that Dragoons would be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It got us hyped to fight some f*cking dragons.

If you look at the Stormblood trailer (which is actually a trailer of the trailer), it does pretty much the exact same thing:

1. It tells us it will be set in Ala Mhigo.
2. It tells us Monk will be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It gets us hyped to anime fight some f*cking Garleans.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Says the person who didn't read past the first sentence to virtue signal about how somebody else is a special snowflake.

The theory is good, in my opinion, but that doesn't mean people will pay attention to it. Hell even being its own thread doesn't mean people will pay attention to it.

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I didn't know I was a special snowflake by telling someone how silly it is to make a new thread about the same subject because they were afraid their opinion would be drowned out in a sea of opinions. Thanks for letting me know though.

Its this very behavior that leads to no thread ever really being taken seriously where there are 2-3-4 different threads regarding the exact same thing, usually made because people feel their opinion is too significant to be drowned out by 40 pages of opinions.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

I'll be honest, I didn't read past the first sentence because that's a little...silly. You had a theory but you did not want your theory to be drowned out by other opinions so you created another thread. Question: If your theory was good and you did post it in said thread (which is pretty much talking about what you are now....making speculation on a teaser trailer which is for only hype), wouldn't people simply acknowledge? Sorry I'm just not seeing the point in making another thread about the same thing, other than (to be blunt) "I'm a special snowflake in a snow storm." I will applaud you for being honest about why you made the thread though. Not many people do that on here.

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...I'm silly when you just admitted you didn't even read past the first sentence? You should take your own advice about being a special snowflake.

What I meant about getting drowned out was the constant bickering on whether or not the woman in the trailer was a monk or a dancer without hardly any elaboration on how she could be one or the other. And there's how many threads based on that single argument? 5? 10? I've lost count, seeing as how they're all alike. At least with this thread it gives a new approach to how the devs could change a class to make a monk SEEM like a dancer. But you wouldn't know because you didn't read the entire post, would you?

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

I'll be honest, I didn't read past the first sentence because that's a little...silly. You had a theory but you did not want your theory to be drowned out by other opinions so you created another thread. Question: If your theory was good and you did post it in said thread (which is pretty much talking about what you are now....making speculation on a teaser trailer which is for only hype), wouldn't people simply acknowledge? Sorry I'm just not seeing the point in making another thread about the same thing, other than (to be blunt) "I'm a special snowflake in a snow storm." I will applaud you for being honest about why you made the thread though. Not many people do that on here.

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I'd say their theory is different enough of a topic from the other thread to warrant a new thread. The other thread isn't a "Analysis of the Trailer" it's a "We don't have a dancer (Yet)" thread. This isn't talking about dancers.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

Honestly, I think people are reading into the trailer a bit too much. The Heavensward trailer did three things:

1. It told us it would be set in Ishgard.
2. It told us that Dragoons would be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It got us hyped to fight some f*cking dragons.

If you look at the Stormblood trailer (which is actually a trailer of the trailer), it does pretty much the exact same thing:

1. It tells us it will be set in Ala Mhigo.
2. It tells us Monk will be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It gets us hyped to anime fight some f*cking Garleans.

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What part of the trailer got us hyped to fight Garleans?

Also, I would not say that all trailers always have to show the exact same thing. .

Having subtle hints and tidbits is not an uncommon thing to have in trailers. It's the precise reason why IGN has a "Rewind Theatre" where they examine trailers frame by frame for movies and video games alike.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

Honestly, I think people are reading into the trailer a bit too much. The Heavensward trailer did three things:

1. It told us it would be set in Ishgard.
2. It told us that Dragoons would be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It got us hyped to fight some f*cking dragons.

If you look at the Stormblood trailer (which is actually a trailer of the trailer), it does pretty much the exact same thing:

1. It tells us it will be set in Ala Mhigo.
2. It tells us Monk will be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It gets us hyped to anime fight some f*cking Garleans.

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Agreed with that. I find this argument to have been drawn out too far, which is why I hope the devs step in and say a few words before it devolves further

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Originally Posted by Arcsol93

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So the logic is that I can't pass judgment on a topic's existence after someone admits that the existence of the thread is in fear of it being drowned out by others in the exact same topic (if people read the OP's first post, he's talking about speculation of the classes involved in the video, poor title choice I suppose), due to your added reasoning that people are starting to derail the thread of speculation. So a thread getting derailed by a couple of clowns justifies the making of a new thread about the same issue? Its not easier to ask the people to keep to the topic or just ignore them all together?

But culdn't that considered to be the opposite of simplifying the battle system? At least as far as MNK goes anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

What part of the trailer got us hyped to fight Garleans?

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Monk on Monk anime fighting and the resistance fighters down below readying cannons and stuff among armored chocobos and Ala Mhigan banners fluttering in the breeze. Looked like they were getting ready for heavy fighting.

And no, the trailers don't always have to do the same thing, but the composition seems fairly similar to me. Too similar to be coincidence.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

Monk on Monk anime fighting and the resistance fighters down below readying cannons and stuff among armored chocobos and Ala Mhigan banners fluttering in the breeze. Looked like they were getting ready for heavy fighting.

And no, the trailers don't always have to do the same thing, but the composition seems fairly similar to me. Too similar to be coincidence.

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Seemed like a completely different composition from my standpoint. This one spent way less time setting a mood (where we start with a WoL wandering slowly in the dark cold snow in the HW trailer) and then we move onto what appears to be a friendly duel (where in the HW trailer he was dodging an endless barrage of Dragon attacks).

I didn't take away garlean hype at all from the trailer. Monk on Monk|Dancer|Super Saiyan battle doesn't convey Garlean war to me. The people below seemed more interested in our duel then whatever they were doing. Ala Mhigan banners in the breeze doesn't convey fighting garlean hype to me either.

That said, I know we will be fighting Garleans, but I got this from the talk after the trailer - not the trailer itself.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

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Obviously people will take away different perspectives on it. We should all bear in mind, also, that this isn't the full trailer. We're all speculating on a teaser of a trailer of an expansion.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

Obviously people will take away different perspectives on it. We should all bear in mind, also, that this isn't the full trailer. We're all speculating on a teaser of a trailer of an expansion.

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Indeed, can't wait for the rest :)

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

So the logic is that I can't pass judgment on a topic's existence after someone admits that the existence of the thread is in fear of it being drowned out by others in the exact same topic (if people read the OP's first post, he's talking about speculation of the classes involved in the video, poor title choice I suppose), due to your added reasoning that people are starting to derail the thread of speculation. So a thread getting derailed by a couple of clowns justifies the making of a new thread about the same issue? Its not easier to ask the people to keep to the topic or just ignore them all together?

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Now you're just using tautology to repeat the same thing to make it seem like you have a point for the sake of having a point, when you don't. I admit the title in question could have been named better, but considering I'm using parts of said trailer to make a theory of how they could evolve the monk for 4.0, it's not exactly off point. Now you're asking why people can't just stay on topic in a post when in fact, you're going off topic in this post by arguing that this post follows a similar post when it actually states a theory of the monk....that you haven't read. I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by aesteval

But culdn't that considered to be the opposite of simplifying the battle system? At least as far as MNK goes anyway.

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I can't remember if they said during the keynote if they wanted to simplify it or not. I do remember though that they wanted to repurpose and get rid of useless skills. People find featherfoot to be really useless, as a lv60 monk myself, I find the fists of earth and wind to be even more useless because they don't have a use past 50 whatsoever. It could be complicated, but what I have in mind is that it changes the skills of abilites we have already learned to suit the forms. That in itself gives the two other forms a use, while still keeping the class as it was: a martial arts based class but with different forms of martial arts.

Guys, remember the 5 billion pink hraesvelgrs that we fought just like on the heavensward trailer?

http://puu.sh/rNuR1/05e9f36f4a.png

I sure don't.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

I didn't know I was a special snowflake by telling someone how silly it is to make a new thread about the same subject because they were afraid their opinion would be drowned out in a sea of opinions. Thanks for letting me know though.

Its this very behavior that leads to no thread ever really being taken seriously where there are 2-3-4 different threads regarding the exact same thing, usually made because people feel their opinion is too significant to be drowned out by 40 pages of opinions.

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I didn't say you were a special snowflake; I said you're a virtue signaler for calling other people snowflakes.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

(if people read the OP's first post, he's talking about speculation of the classes involved in the video, poor title choice I suppose)

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no, he's not. this thread is about MNK job changes.

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i don't see how they can make the stances differ and still be meaningful. i had thought that being in Fist of Wind would increase your attack speed or increase GL duration but people are going to eventually figure out that it's either much better than Fist of Fire or still worse and we'll end up with just one optimal stance and ignore the other.

i don't see them changing the stances to like a 30 sec buffs on a 90 sec cooldown either, that would be weird for stances.

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Originally Posted by KitingGenbu

I'll be honest, I didn't read past the first sentence

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Lol neither did I. This theory will just get drowned like all the other theories. *Shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Terribad

Lol neither did I. This theory will just get drowned like all the other theories. *Shrugs*

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*Shrugs*, it's a decent theory. It sounds like it'd be making MNK similar to how AST currently works. I'd be in support of the change, if that's what they are going for.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

*Shrugs*, it's a decent theory. It sounds like it'd be making MNK similar to how AST currently works. I'd be in support of the change, if that's what they are going for.

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Never said the theory was bad nor good, I didn't read it so I can't say. Just thought the reasoning was silly and agreed with A poster.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

Honestly, I think people are reading into the trailer a bit too much. The Heavensward trailer did three things:

1. It told us it would be set in Ishgard.
2. It told us that Dragoons would be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It got us hyped to fight some f*cking dragons.

If you look at the Stormblood trailer (which is actually a trailer of the trailer), it does pretty much the exact same thing:

1. It tells us it will be set in Ala Mhigo.
2. It tells us Monk will be the focal job of the expansion.
3. It gets us hyped to anime fight some f*cking Garleans.

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Thank you for being a voice of reason. This is really a waste of time. People are reading way too deep into really shallow information. You're all a bunch of nerds, go wash the dishes or something.

This thread makes me sad.

"So I've got a theory..."
"Pah, don't even bother."

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

Thank you for being a voice of reason. This is really a waste of time. People are reading way too deep into really shallow information. You're all a bunch of nerds, go wash the dishes or something.

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Unnecessarily offensive. People are reading deep into a trailer for an expansion of a game they love. As I said earlier in this thread, there is a series of videos from IGN that do exactly that with a wide variety of trailers. It's not uncommon.

Surprised your post, which contributes nothing to the conversation and just insults a bunch of people, got 2 upvotes.

Do you have anything to offer that shows that the OP would be wrong in their theory, based on the trailer?

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Unnecessarily offensive. People are reading deep into a trailer for an expansion of a game they love. As I said earlier in this thread, there is a series of videos from IGN that do exactly that with a wide variety of trailers. It's not uncommon.

Surprised your post, which contributes nothing to the conversation and just insults a bunch of people, got 2 upvotes.

Do you have anything to offer that shows that the OP would be wrong in their theory, based on the trailer?

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No, because I don't care. Time is a thing that happens, and more information will be revealed as it passes. And are you serious? Offensive? I couldn't have tried harder to make it sound sarcastic. You people are way too fragile these days.

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Originally Posted by Dreamsoap

No, because I don't care. Time is a thing that happens, and more information will be revealed as it passes. And are you serious? Offensive? I couldn't have tried harder to make it sound sarcastic. You people are way too fragile these days.

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Making something sound sarcastic is often an easy way to offend someone. Calling people a bunch of nerds and telling them to go wash dishes both directly insults them and indirectly insults them. I am not sure how you can't see that you were being offensive.

If you don't care, why have you posted twice in this thread. Just stay away if you have nothing constructive to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Making something sound sarcastic is often an easy way to offend someone. Calling people a bunch of nerds and telling them to go wash dishes both directly insults them and indirectly insults them. I am not sure how you can't see that you were being offensive.

If you don't care, why have you posted twice in this thread. Just stay away if you have nothing constructive to contribute.

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This is too precious. I was seriously just joking, but if you want to be that defensive over your game theories, sure. Live up to the namesake I gave you. Lmao. xD

More proof of ignorant folks assuming things when the read just takes a few seconds.

In regards to the OP, I think the title of this thread is misleading. In regards to your idea on the revamp of "Fists of" skills, it definitely could work, kind of like stance dancing for War or Astrologian does now (and what I hope they do for War is consolidate IB/FC and SC/Decimate). Giving more flavor to classes through stance dancing could add versatility, and maybe allow for different battle mechanics due to this diversity.

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Originally Posted by Bloody

More proof of ignorant folks assuming things when the read just takes a few seconds.

In regards to the OP, I think the title of this thread is misleading. In regards to your idea on the revamp of "Fists of" skills, it definitely could work, kind of like stance dancing for War or Astrologian does now (and what I hope they do for War is consolidate IB/FC and SC/Decimate). Giving more flavor to classes through stance dancing could add versatility, and maybe allow for different battle mechanics due to this diversity.

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I admit it wasn't a very good title in retrospect. I meant to have the title refer to how I came to this theory through the trailer, but it backfired horribly.

As for people assuming things without even giving the OP a read...that's the usual voice of reason for this forum, rather than going in with an open mind. It's either one way or the other sadly.

even if the idea is nice, it will not pass, they will not create a whole new set of animation because you switch of fist. mostly because they will need to do it for every jobs that have different stance (and strangely you have a few). plus like the idea to have different weapon used by the same jobs they will prefer create a new jobs that will use this weapon and animation that put it on another jobs. because is not different than, creating another speciality. what they have said will never happend.

that said about the skill that will be revamped (if not take out) you have a few of them. and i think they will more work around the meditation skill and more flexible combo system, because soo far we are quite limited in the possibility.
i still wait for a no positional combo for the monk (yeah, because i find it silly to play a monk that play like a rogue), the chi blast! and maybe some skill that will allows us to charge the meditation. outside this the monk is kinda nice as he is right now.

about the trailer, my position is well know, the red lady is not a monk, what she is.... it's open to speculation, for me (as like it's my personal opinion), it's scream dancer... funfact, i did say a few years ago that i will find very interesting that the dancer use a similar combo system like the monk, but based on kicking, each skill representating a "dance's step" and instead to get a personal buff like the monk, do a buff around her, motivating people or debuffing enemy. but i digress, we are talking about a theory about the monk based on the trailer.

i will simply say this, no point to show 2 monk sparing, especially if this two monk don't use the same combat style. the man (wol) is clearly a monk, the girl on the other hand... nope, this is not a monk.

the stop of the support of the ps3 will not result in more cash invested into 1-2 class, yoshida was clear, if they give something special to one class, they will give something special to every class!

ps: something i want to make quite clear, because some people seems to forget it time to time:
when i talk of Monk i'm talk of Monk in Final Fantasy 14. you can come and say, in the 4-3-6-10 they do this.... no point, we are in Final Fantasy 14 and the monk have already an identity really clear.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

even if the idea is nice, it will not pass, they will not create a whole new set of animation because you switch of fist.

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The animations are already ingame since ARR beta.
It is about the effects of already existing skills, not new skills.

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i will simply say this, no point to show 2 monk sparing, especially if this two monk don't use the same combat style. the man (wol) is clearly a monk, the girl on the other hand... nope, this is not a monk.

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She use Shoulder Tackle, Feather Feet and Fist of Fire in the trailer. For me it look like a Monk.

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the stop of the support of the ps3 will not result in more cash invested into 1-2 class, yoshida was clear, if they give something special to one class, they will give something special to every class!

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useless skills from every class get reworked

ermm no, i do play monk since V1 and did play to the beta too, the animation of the combo of kick followed by strike with the clothing (probably a weapon by the way) are not in game. same a lot of her kicking are simply not present since most of the animation of the monk and skill are.... punching.

she did use a charge, not shoulder tackles, featherfeet is a cross skill and no at best we can argue that she use a skill that look like a fist of wind (another of the useless skill with can guess that will be rework or replaced)

one more time, people use this as example, whe,:
- 1) they are not the same animation. the featherfeet skill our character jump from feet to another, here she turn on herself and rest on one feet. the shoulder tackle (bad name by the way) is a direct punch, her she strike with both arm open, one in front one behind, that not the movement the monk do. fist of wind too haven't the same animation, plus it don't increase the capacity to fight, but to move! is more a charge up animation used for her.... what make my point more valid since the WoL and her have 2 different animation for charge up!!
- 2) some of the skill name are generic skill not even monk skill (snap punch, shoulder tackle and featherfeet) they are pugilist :x plus some are cross skill or like said basic skill that can be used in any martial art jobs.

people are simply wanting monk to get more animation and such, but i did explain why it will not happend, countless time, it's a fact that can't be ignored.

worst none of your point are valid! since it's greatly possible that fist of wind, feathfeet will be removed of the monk skillset!

anyway, can you explain me one thing, a simple one. why the lady in red is obviously a kung fu fighter while the wol (monk) is a karate fighter? why make another monk fighting style, since, we will never get a skilltree or other specialization or even a second jobs based on the pugilist class? 5 skill is not enough for change a fighting style and like said, don't hope to get another animation for your skill because you switch of stance, it will recquire to do it for every jobs that have different stance (warrior, paladin, astrologian,...) what they will not do, since they are really carefull about how they will use the budget!

finally, if they create a whole new set of animation of this quality.... why not directly put it into a new jobs...especially since we see her use a strange weapon. and i still remember yoshida saying, no multiple type of weapon per jobs. but i have the impression to repeat myself. it will be nice to read every point i did said. because they are kinda fact that make her really really strange.

because your point are, she seems to use featherfeet, she seems to use fist of wind and she seems to use shoulder tackles, when none of this skill have the same animation in the game, take the time to look at it ingame.... by the way, strangely the WoL use the same animation than use in the game. strange no?

ps: it's nice to hope for stuff, better to understand what they will or will not do. make another set of animation even for the already existing skill different because of a stance? when hell will froze! it time, money and energy consumed that can be used to develop new class, new content and such.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

because your point are, she seems to use featherfeet, she seems to use fist of wind and she seems to use shoulder tackles, when none of this skill have the same animation in the game, take the time to look at it ingame.... by the way, strangely the WoL use the same animation than use in the game. strange no?

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Featherfeet (she jump up and down a bit) https://youtu.be/mAobb8_SzHY?t=80
Shoulder Tackle (instant jump to her opponent with a stunning attack) right after Featherfeet
Fist of Fire (not Fist of Wind, she get a red aura) https://youtu.be/mAobb8_SzHY?t=119

*facepalms*
Feathefeet animation is jump from one feet to another, not on one feet (plus it's a cross skill)
shoulder tackle, the easier one to counter, go ingame and check the animation
fist of fire don't give you a red aura :x it make 4 flower of fire sprout.... seriously?

we are talking about animation and you say it look like not it's is. that the whole point.

ps: i want to point something quite important, on the whole fight, you have only notice 3 skill that look like monk? what about all the other attack she do that are totally not monk, while we have a monk fighting her using skill we know!

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

*facepalms*
Feathefeet animation is jump from one feet to another, not on one feet (plus it's a cross skill)
shoulder tackle, the easier one to counter, go ingame and check the animation
fist of fire don't give you a red aura :x it make 4 flower of fire sprout.... seriously?

we are talking about animation and you say it look like not it's is. that the whole point.

ps: i want to point something quite important, on the whole fight, you have only notice 3 skill that look like monk? what about all the other attack she do that are totally not monk, while we have a monk fighting her using skill we know!

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The WoLs moves in the trailer aren't 100% like the monks ingame animations either, doesn't make him any less of a monk though; it's a CGI trailer, duh. The female clearly uses Featherfoot, Shoulder Tacke (which pretty much looks the same ingame) and FoF. You not being able, or not wanting, to see it doesn't change that.


B2T: A decent theory but probably wishful thinking because that would be somewhat of a complete overhaul as several abilities would have to be reworked, added and removed. Doesn't mean that I wouldn't want it, because actually making proper use of FoW and FoE (other than PvPing and occasionally having to tank for 5 seconds) and stance dancing depending on the situation would be pretty cool.

I don't know if the Fist skills should really affect fighting styles all that much, but I think they could make Fists of Wind increase Attack Speed in addition to the Movement Speed increase... It might increase DPS more than Fists of Fire, but faster weaponskills do end up draining TP faster... Maybe get some actual use for Purification outside of AoE spam.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I don't know if the Fist skills should really affect fighting styles all that much, but I think they could make Fists of Wind increase Attack Speed in addition to the Movement Speed increase... It might increase DPS more than Fists of Fire, but faster weaponskills do end up draining TP faster... Maybe get some actual use for Purification outside of AoE spam.

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Exactly my point right there. Gives uses to other skills as well, kind of compliments each other in my opinion. Fists of earth is still a long shot for me, I kind of see it as a sort of tanky pose, but I'm sure other means for it could be developed.