With Eve gone, only sub based MMOs left are FFXIV and WoW

The only 2 sub based MMOs left, and in WoW you can buy time with gold.

I really really hope the sub stays in FFXIV long term, because it will only improve the community. There needs to be some barrier of entry.

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

The only 2 sub based MMOs left, and in WoW you can buy time with gold.

I really really hope the sub stays in FFXIV long term, because it will only improve the community. There needs to be some barrier of entry.

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Remember FFXI?
Yeah. Yeah.

What do you mean EVE is gone?

EVE didn't become F2P, it just offered a "trial" tier, and a very limited one at that.

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

I really really hope the sub stays in FFXIV long term, because it will only improve the community. There needs to be some barrier of entry.

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Having money to spend on a sub doesn't mean that you are going to be a positive member of the community.

That said, I'm all for FFXIV keeping its sub as well. My only concern is the increasing costs and frequency of stuff in the cash shop. IMO it is ridiculous that even extra retainers are in the cash shop, but since then we've seen even more ridiculous things imo.

I feel if you pay monthly, you shouldn't have added content in a cash shop. Cash shops are ways for free MMO's to make money. Subs are for those of us who want quality content without cash shops. :\

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Having money to spend on a sub doesn't mean that you are going to be a positive member of the community.

That said, I'm all for FFXIV keeping its sub as well. My only concern is the increasing costs and frequency of stuff in the cash shop. IMO it is ridiculous that even extra retainers are in the cash shop, but since then we've seen even more ridiculous things imo.

I feel if you pay monthly, you shouldn't have added content in a cash shop. Cash shops are ways for free MMO's to make money. Subs are for those of us who want quality content without cash shops. :\

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Because people begged for a cash shop and SE is not just going to say "na, we don't want easy money, we'll pass" thus the cash shop is born. and is slowly getting worse and worse. because people are actually PAYING the absurd prices in it, thus they keep going up, pretty soon it will have outfits for $ 35-50 and people will buy them.

In other words, people want to throw money at SE and they have their bags open, over half the stuff in there could have easily been actual in game rewards, for example: the odin mount could have been a drop from the ACTUAL odin fight. but that would make to much sense, Slap a price tag on it and watch the whales swim in.


Also as far as topic goes FFXI is still going and is still sub based, and has been since 2002, so there is 3.

I always prefer the sub based MMORPGs. It's more honest in my opinion and the sub filters out all the pixel hero kids thus making the community much more enjoyeable.

I'm okay with the Cash Shop as long as

1) Things in it are only cosmetic (though the outfits with the xp are pushing it a bit too far)
2) The money goes back into FFXIV directly -better server infrastructure and better fanfest merchandising :D

I'm all for whatever makes SE more money which in turn becomes more content which is then deepened and the cycle repeats.

If that is P2P, B2P, or FTP it don't matter to me. And this game right now is P2P + cash shop. The standard P2P at least in the beginning didn't double dip.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

What do you mean EVE is gone?

EVE didn't become F2P, it just offered a "trial" tier, and a very limited one at that.

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Unless things have changed since the announcement, EVE is planning to go F2P in November. Or in the least have a F2P model.

All my friends run bots in WoW to pay their time, takes less than 2 days to earn the gold for a month, they even pay my sub because it takes no effort for them, I don't even have to bot myself for it.

I'm not against the ability to buy a month for gil, but I'm not sure if it's a good thing for the community. Actually the lack of bots in the Playstation community is also god sent, they can't bot even if they wanted to.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

I'm all for whatever makes SE more money which in turn becomes more content which is then deepened and the cycle repeats.

If that is P2P, B2P, or FTP it don't matter to me. And this game right now is P2P + cash shop. The standard P2P at least in the beginning didn't double dip.

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FFXIV seems to take after SWTOR; especially after the Stormblood trailer, very reminiscent of the new SWOTR expansion trailer.

Korean F2P isn't so bad, the only P2W games I can think of would be Facebook games. If they would look at F2P they should look more closely at the Korean models or at least do what SWTOR does. Wow is going to be killed soon by Blizzard so Pay to play will almost be a thing of the past.

There are other subscription games such as Dark Ages of Camelot. Yes that one is still supported with developer activity and a PvP only DAOC 2 was in the works by the original chief developer. Not with that name of course.

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

The only 2 sub based MMOs left, and in WoW you can buy time with gold.

I really really hope the sub stays in FFXIV long term, because it will only improve the community. There needs to be some barrier of entry.

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same. really hope that subscription stays despite the trend shift to buy to play or free to play (w/ cash shop) being the norm for mmos nowadays. i would hate to see the servers get flooded with the toxic f2p crowd and whiners

I wouldn't trust a free to play FF game!...

I think subscription based MMO games have higher quality than F2P, maybe because there is a commitment between paying people and developers to keep things right whilst F2P games must be more of a gamble, if they sell enough they might continue with the game but if they don't then updates might not come out at all!... :rolleyes:

I thought WoW is not a pure sub-based anymore nowadays?

There's that thing called the WoW Token to buy subscription.

So, basically only the Final Fantasy games are the pure sub-based mmos left today.

I hope XIV never goes f2p. The quality wouldn't be there any more. Plus, no income = no updates

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

All my friends run bots in WoW to pay their time, takes less than 2 days to earn the gold for a month, they even pay my sub because it takes no effort for them, I don't even have to bot myself for it.

I'm not against the ability to buy a month for gil, but I'm not sure if it's a good thing for the community. Actually the lack of bots in the Playstation community is also god sent, they can't bot even if they wanted to.

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A few bad apples doesn't mean the whole system is bad or flawed, people will always find ways to abuse the system, if we had a sub token RMT would be gone for sure, and all that profit people give to RMT would go to SE instead, besides wow gold or ffxiv gil have no real in game value, all you can buy with it is cosmetics or a house, the best gear will always be obtained from instances or tomes.

You forgot FFXI, Ultima Online, and Dark Age of Camelot. EVE you can kinda play free. You can argue WoW is F2P now if you consider EVE F2P

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

I thought WoW is not a pure sub-based anymore nowadays?

There's that thing called the WoW Token to buy subscription.

So, basically only the Final Fantasy games are the pure sub-based mmos left today.

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It's still P2P, just someone else is giving Blizz the money.

The mogstation payed for the European data center and it is also paying for the server upgrades to enable more inventory and houses. While some of the cash goes to SE as profit, a large chunk goes back into the game. Another thing to remember, the more profitable the game is, the more Yoshi can ask of SE for us.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

[...] and it is also paying for the server upgrades to enable more inventory and houses. While some of the cash goes to SE as profit, a large chunk goes back into the game[...]

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[citation needed]

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Originally Posted by Lisotte

You forgot FFXI, Ultima Online, and Dark Age of Camelot. EVE you can kinda play free. You can argue WoW is F2P now if you consider EVE F2P

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There are also "f2p" games like Runescape where free membership is more like an unlimited trial, you need membership (a sub) to get access to most of the game.

Or ESO which is a hybrid buy-to-play and sub.

The day this game goes fap2play, is the day I throw in the towel. I played XI for 8 years and loved every masochistic moment of it!

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

It's still P2P, just someone else is giving Blizz the money.

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Technically, yes. But we, as the gamers, can play WoW without having to spend a dime on the monthly subscription.

the misplaced and faulty arrogance of people who play a mandatory sub-only game is astounding. (My game forces me to pay an additional subscription just to access the game that I paid 60 dollars for, and that makes me better than you.)

I've been playing MMOs since the 90s, and I've experienced every payment model there is.

the notion that a game having a mandatory (or you can't play the game that you paid for already)Subscription automatically makes it better than a game that doesn't is absurd.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

the misplaced and faulty arrogance of people who play a mandatory sub-only game is astounding. (My game forces me to pay an additional subscription just to access the game that I paid 60 dollars for, and that makes me better than you.)

the notion that the Subscription is what makes the game good(and not the quality of the game itself) is absurd.

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This notion held true for a time when everyone was trying to be the next "WoW killer". F2P games have really changed since then but I think people still think of F2P in the old way. I'm still waiting for Lost Ark to come out, will really be amazing if a game like that is B2P or F2P!

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

The mogstation payed for the European data center and it is also paying for the server upgrades to enable more inventory and houses. While some of the cash goes to SE as profit, a large chunk goes back into the game. Another thing to remember, the more profitable the game is, the more Yoshi can ask of SE for us.

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Can I pull "facts" from thin air like you someday?

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

This notion held true for a time when everyone was trying to be the next "WoW killer". F2P games have really changed since then but I think people still think of F2P in the old way. I'm still waiting for Lost Ark to come out, will really be amazing if a game like that is B2P or F2P!

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my personal preference is B2P, with an Optional Subscription that offers goodies.

ESO has this business model, and I really like it.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

my personal preference is B2P, with an Optional Subscription that offers goodies.

ESO has this business model, and I really like it.

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Guild Wars 2 also does the B2P model as well.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

In other words, people want to throw money at SE and they have their bags open, over half the stuff in there could have easily been actual in game rewards, for example: the odin mount could have been a drop from the ACTUAL odin fight. .

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You never know this things wouldn't have been ingame at all maybe + Odin fight came later lol. Also ppl always complain if its not cash shop ppl complain about grind (see potd hairstyle for example) cant please them all lol

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Having money to spend on a sub doesn't mean that you are going to be a positive member of the community.

That said, I'm all for FFXIV keeping its sub as well. My only concern is the increasing costs and frequency of stuff in the cash shop. IMO it is ridiculous that even extra retainers are in the cash shop, but since then we've seen even more ridiculous things imo.

I feel if you pay monthly, you shouldn't have added content in a cash shop. Cash shops are ways for free MMO's to make money. Subs are for those of us who want quality content without cash shops. :\

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What's stoping ppl form drop 200$ a month or 1000$ a months on a free MMO? LoL
But when it comes to a P2P you can't seem to drop 50$ in 1 month on a sub MMO you love, 2 or 3 times a year For that lil something you won't .O.o.

God forbid they add P2W....lol (BTW I'm 100% not for lol)

I know many ppl that drop more on a F2P in 1year then they do on a P2P in 5years....

Subs will be always better than micro-transactions.

With subs, companies know how much income they'll get, so they can plan forward updates (or expansions).

With micro-transactions it's hard (or impossible) to know when the income will be high or low, therefore it's hard to update a game with an irregular economy, ending up with a contentless game. That's why some F2P games are just boring, low quality and contentless.

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

Guild Wars 2 also does the B2P model as well.

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in B2P games, I almost always CHOOSE to pay the sub regardless, especially if the extra goodies are worth it.

But I don't HAVE to in order to play the game that I purchased. I can still log in, and play the game that I purchased, without any of the extra goodies, if I so choose. that, is the major difference for me.

I don't feel that I should have to pay 15 dollars a month, JUST in order to play the 60-dollar game that I purchased, and the 60-dollar expansions that I continue to also purchase.

I do it, with FFXIV of course, because I enjoy the game and I wish to play it, and therefore I have no other choice, but I don't have to like it.

I feel like if I pay 60 dollars for a game, I should be able to play what I paid for, without the threat of a monthly ransom.

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Originally Posted by JMadFour

in B2P games, I almost always CHOOSE to pay the sub regardless, especially if the extra goodies are worth it.

But I don't HAVE to in order to play the game that I purchased. I can still log in, and play the game that I purchased, without any of the extra goodies, if I so choose. that, is the major difference for me.

I don't feel that I should have to pay 15 dollars a month, JUST in order to play the 60-dollar game that I purchased, and the 60-dollar expansions that I continue to also purchase.

I do it, with FFXIV of course, because I enjoy the game and I wish to play it, and therefore I have no other choice, but I don't have to like it.

I feel like if I pay 60 dollars for a game, I should be able to play what I paid for, without the threat of a monthly ransom.

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I get what your saying, but let's look at it this way..

The game go B2P.. Can you live with all we lose? That Ransome is what make this game keep pushing out patch after patch.. Dungeon,Raid,Boss fights...Story! New jobs! On a LV that make F2P and B2P seem pointless.(Not useless)

Not say your wrong just saying I'd happily pay that Ransome if we keep getting add on and patches like we have been. ^_^

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

What do you mean EVE is gone?

EVE didn't become F2P, it just offered a "trial" tier, and a very limited one at that.

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I know, I'm wondering what announcement some of these people have read.

EVE has gone F2P in the same way that WoW has gone F2P with its 'play up to level 20 for free!' trial.

The EVE Online free model is untested. I played EVE Online for a decade and I know how the game works. Logging in 2000 Velators to shut down an invasion of a system is going to gridlock EVE. They did not think this through.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Subs will be always better than micro-transactions.

With subs, companies know how much income they'll get, so they can plan forward updates (or expansions).

With micro-transactions it's hard (or impossible) to know when the income will be high or low, therefore it's hard to update a game with an irregular economy, ending up with a contentless game. That's why some F2P games are just boring, low quality and contentless.

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But it's been proven time and time again, data says otherwise.

http://i.imgur.com/t0XN9c5.jpg

I'm not saying that FFXIV should go F2P, just trying to clear the misconception. From what I've seen, P2P community is always better than F2P ones. I wouldn't want to see FF games to be 'tainted' by the new toxic community.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

The EVE Online free model is untested. I played EVE Online for a decade and I know how the game works. Logging in 2000 Velators to shut down an invasion of a system is going to gridlock EVE. They did not think this through.

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Presumably free accounts can't multibox, just like trial accounts can't.

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

But it's been proven time and time again, data says otherwise.

http://i.imgur.com/t0XN9c5.jpg
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Dunno why you quote him he said company from p2p games can plan more in advance than a f2p cause of the regular income. So even if ffxiv would make less profit they still can release content to gain subs back meanwhile f2p games don't have the ability to do that unless cash shop gives enough profit countless of f2p games were dead after a short time due that.

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Originally Posted by Silvarion

But it's been proven time and time again, data says otherwise.

http://i.imgur.com/t0XN9c5.jpg

I'm not saying that FFXIV should go F2P, just trying to clear the misconception. From what I've seen, P2P community is always better than F2P ones. I wouldn't want to see FF games to be 'tainted' by the new toxic community.

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Well, League of Legends is not a MMORPG and can't be compared, since it's a different market. You should compare it with a different MMORPG, and then compare how often they update their game and compare the content/quality of it.

Yoshi-P already stated once that a p2p game is better because they can plan future updates, since they know how much they'll earn.

With F2P models you just don't know what your income will be, so you end up not planing anything, or plan something small just in case nobody buys anything.


Usually MMORPGs goes F2P because investors wants their money back ASAP, and F2P offers a fast initial income, but after that it always goes down til the game just dies.

Glad FFXIV is still sub, in fact that's one of the primary reasons I came back - the piece of mind that the game won't try to nickle and dime me after ESO introduced lockboxes. If FFXIV ever went F2P, I think that would be my MMO gaming career over with for good.