Bizarre Internal Inconsistencies For No Apparent Reason

The more I play this game the more bizarre inconsistencies become apparent.

Two examples:

1) As a WHM when down-leveled to, say, 15 I don't have access to Stoneskin, but when down-leveled to ACN I DO have access to it - entirely illogical

2) I CAN use my chocobo when doing normal leves but NOT when doing guildleves.

I mean, I don't mind restrictions but at least make them consistent and logical.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

1) As a WHM when down-leveled to, say, 15 I don't have access to Stoneskin, but when down-leveled to ACN I DO have access to it - entirely illogical

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As an arcanist you're using it as a cross-classed skill. They don't have the same restrictions as the base skills.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

2) I CAN use my chocobo when doing normal leves but NOT when doing guildleves.

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This is by design. They don't want us doing grand company leves in a party (which includes chocobos).

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

I mean, I don't mind restrictions but at least make them consistent and logical.

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They are consistent though. Cross class skills don't have the same restrictions as base skills (a restriction) and no grand company leves allows being in a party (a restriction).

But GC leves work exactly the same as normal leves.
Why is there no restriction on normal leves then if they don't want us to do them in a party?

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure normal leves DID have the same restriction and they just removed it at some point.

1) Why is it illogical that you can use your ONE cross class skill on that level but not a skill thats on a higher level than your "current" one? Level-synch isnt in place to prevent you from using stoneskin. For your arcanist thats one extra spell - the same as your whm can have one extra skill on that level.

2) You can use your chocobo when doing leves because they can be done in groups and you and your chocobo count as a group. Guildleves cant be done in groups (even though I dont excatly know why... probably because of different GCs or something like that?)
While the whole "your chocobo is a partymemeber"-situation isnt great and optimal, its pretty consistent with the way the game works.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

But GC leves work exactly the same as normal leves.
Why is there no restriction on normal leves then if they don't want us to do them in a party?

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure normal leves DID have the same restriction and they just removed it at some point.

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Normal battle leves could always be shared ever since 1.0. There's even leve linking that allows people in the same party to complete the same one at the same time instead of having to do it multiple times per person no matter who initiates it.

GC Leves were always solo Leves since it came ingame during 1.x
1.19 patch note:

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[dev1138] Company leves have been introduced.

Rewards for company leves will consist primarily of company seals.
Company leves are not issued by the Adventurers' Guild, but by company officers stationed at the locations listed in the chart below. Company leves will be similar to Battlecraft Leves in nature, with the exception that they can be issued on location and commenced immediately. As with guildleves, accepting company leves will consume players' leve allowances.

NPC Name NPC Location
Hammil Cassiopeia Hollow (7,5)
Cordwyk Mun-Tuy Cellars (7,6)
Byrne Nanawa Silvermines (6,6)
Sternn Western La Noscea (6,16), near Camp Bald Knoll
Lodall North Shroud (22,16), near Treespeak
Dalvag Eastern Thanalan (42,28), Halatali

Company leves are all solo missions, and therefore cannot be linked or shared.

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While cross-class skills don't have a direct level requirement (except to learn it), the slots have a level requirement. As an example at level 10 until level 19 you can only equip 1 cross class skill, no matter how many you have learned.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure normal leves DID have the same restriction and they just removed it at some point.

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Normal Leves were for solo and party since 1.0 beta.

The difference between normal leves and GC leves is that the normal leves are for exp and level up, while the GC leves are for GC seals.

Not so much inconsistency as you just dont understand things that well. Keep playing, the picture will fill in eventually as you learn.

Guys. He understands the discrepancy. The discrepancy is arbitrary and makes no sense though.
- The cross class issue could be circumvented by allowing a Class to keep all of their cross-able skills when level adjusted (this wouldn't amount to basically nothing)
- The Chocobo bit is probably similar to queueing with a Chocobo. Will never be fixed, please look forward and back to it.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Normal battle leves could always be shared ever since 1.0.

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Quite, 'leve parties' were a big part of leveling in 1.0, not least due to the lack of a questing system of any great depth .. V2's quest set is pretty paltry compared to other 'theme park' MMOs, V1's was positively anemic.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

1) Why is it illogical that you can use your ONE cross class skill on that level but not a skill thats on a higher level than your "current" one?

2) You can use your chocobo when doing leves because they can be done in groups and you and your chocobo count as a group.

While the whole "your chocobo is a partymemeber"-situation isnt great and optimal, its pretty consistent with the way the game works.

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1) FFXIV is the complete opposite of FFXI, which at least strictly adhered to the main/sub job concept, this flies in the face of it.

2) But as someone pointed out, it's entirely an artificial and arbitrary differentiation to say GC leves are different in any meaningful form, the ONLY difference is one of the rewards, apart from that the mechanics are identical.

It's all moot of course, it is what it is, but IMO these are simply arbitrary inconsistencies for no logical reason.

The only real "solution" to the cross-class skill issue would be to level-restrict cross-class skills. If you just give a high-level WHM all their cross-class skills, that gives them a major advantage over a level-appropriate WHM, which is not good. It doesn't make any sense, but sometimes games have to accept some weirdness due to gameplay mechanics.

As for GC leves, they're solo leves. That's the point. It's no more "inconsistent" than the fact that some MSQ instances are solo (and don't allow use of a chocobo) and others use the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Normal battle leves could always be shared ever since 1.0. There's even leve linking that allows people in the same party to complete the same one at the same time instead of having to do it multiple times per person no matter who initiates it.

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Indeed. One of the less known multi-player content pieces.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

The only real "solution" to the cross-class skill issue would be to level-restrict cross-class skills.

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This is unnecessary, the restriction on the number of Cross skills imposed by level sync (or just being lower level) means you have to think strategically of which cross skills you want and what order they should be in. It's one of the only areas in the game where the player has freedom to do anything 'custom'. Don't take it away.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

This is unnecessary, the restriction on the number of Cross skills imposed by level sync (or just being lower level) means you have to think strategically of which cross skills you want and what order they should be in. It's one of the only areas in the game where the player has freedom to do anything 'custom'. Don't take it away.

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I'm sorry, I wasn't clear - I am in no way advocating for doing this. I was just pointing out that there is a solution to this inconsistency, but not one anyone would actually want. "Be careful what you wish for" and all that. I am very much in favor of this system as-is, even though I main WHM.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

1) FFXIV is the complete opposite of FFXI, which at least strictly adhered to the main/sub job concept, this flies in the face of it.

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...when did I say anything about FFXI? I know nothing about that game, havent played it, dont care for it. At level 15 you can have a limited amount of your cross class skills, those are different from your class/job/base skills and therefor I dont see why its inconsistent?

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Originally Posted by Talraen

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear - I am in no way advocating for doing this. I was just pointing out that there is a solution to this inconsistency, but not one anyone would actually want. "Be careful what you wish for" and all that. I am very much in favor of this system as-is, even though I main WHM.

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Coolness.

As it happens I think that one issue with the skills in general is that the true dedicated healer CNJWHM has to wait so long to be able to cast raise in battle, but Arcanist gets that ability immediately they can resurrect. ...And following up on that my major bone to pick with cross skills is that I'm PLD, and one of my cross skills is raise. Superb except it's impossible to use during battle making as useful as a chocolate teapot. People say, oh but you can still raise after battle. Yeah, except it's not on my cross skills since I need those crossskill slots for things I can use in battle. So to use raise, I can either change to WHM and wait for the cooldown, or I can change my cross skills and wait for the cooldown. Guess which is easier.

I'll also lob into that the fact that Summoners can resurrect in battle and have access to swiftcast.

IMHO, CNJ shouldn't have to wait for a trait to allow battle raise, and PLD should be able to use raise in battle too, it's not like it's going to kill balance with that 6s cast time...ah, but that's a different discussion. Still it would be nice if all of the cross skills that people were able to choose from were actually useful.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...when did I say anything about FFXI? I know nothing about that game, havent played it, dont care for it. At level 15 you can have a limited amount of your cross class skills, those are different from your class/job/base skills and therefor I dont see why its inconsistent?

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hmm, it seems this player doesn't take in consideration that cross skill slot allow you to select whatever skill you want from another class. It doesn't matter if the skill is from level 50. they just want to be able to have access to the reg skills of the selected class they are playing as if they were from the cross skill slot.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

no grand company leves allows being in a party (a restriction).

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Obviously it's by design. It's horrible design though.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

PLD should be able to use raise in battle too, it's not like it's going to kill balance with that 6s cast time

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PLD has infinite MP and a whole lot of spare time to cast Raise with it. Yes, it will kill balance.

It takes more MP to use Raise then Clemency by just over 500 MP, can't effectively be used by a MT and if the OT is having to rez in the first place, probably bigger problems for content where it also might matter. I'm all for Pld battle rez but in the grand scheme of things thing where it would "kill" balance said balance probably doesn't care about it much and places where it could be more needed you'll probably wipe anyways.

MAYBE if Pld got Swiftcast Rez it could break balance. But they ain't gettin that anyways.