My personal changes to DRK/PLD

Disclaimer I am not a video game designer so everything put in here is 'MY' idea of how to balance the tanks up to WAR standards.

PLD

Shield Oath/Sword Oath - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.

Sheltron - Can be used to either 100% block the next incoming attack (Vanila) or to make the next spell uninterruptible. Also while active allows the use of Shield Swipe, even if you haven't blocked. (OT Friendly)

Clemency - oGCD with 30s CD. still uses the same MP. Cure Potency of 1200 and TP restoration of 200. If cast on another party member the effect is halved on you also, like Vanila, but this time you'll get half the TP which is 100TP back

Circle of Scorn - Now on the GCD, same potency which is 100, but DoT is taken away. Uses TP or MP, I think TP would be the way to go to create self Clemency synergy.

Flash - Is now on the oGCD! same effect and MP usage as before, with a CD of something like 15-20s maybe more? maybe less. This will help with AoE and Single target aggro a lot, would be very handy on tank swaps and the such. Almost would say it might be worth Cross Classing now.

Divine Veil - Give me a visual animation when it's proc'ed to show it's radius, similar to deployment tactics.

DRK

Grit - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.

Dark Dance - Dark Art's effect now just doubles the parry rate and grants a unique buff to 100% parry the next incoming attack to create synergy with Reprisal. This or do the same with how I want Sheltron to work, allow the use of Reprisal upon activation of Dark Dance. Making it OT friendly

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.

Shadow Wall - Once active, along with the 30% mitigation, gives an MP refresh while active and negates Dark Side's draining effect while active, make this more unique then a watered down Sentinel.

Blood Weapon - Allowed to use while inside Grit. Who uses Grit anyways? (I've always been argued for this one, maybe it would be broke?)

Sole Survivor - Along with the HP and MP you get, restore 20% of TP as well, which would be 200TP


My Counter arguments!

The whole oGCD thing would make DRK/PLD too powerful!?
Now... I main WAR, I love WAR. But the argument WAR's make that the Grit/SwO/ShO on the oGCD wouldn't be fair to WAR because they don't get an instant 20% mitigation. Now although this arguement does have this point, is that point entirely true? Yes DRK/PLD's get instant 20% mitigation, but if you're sitting on 5 stacks and you go Defiance, BAM! Inner Beast self-heal for 100% of the damage done, 20% mitigation for 6 seconds and instant access to a 1200 self-heal.

DRK's DA'ed Dark Dance and DA'ed Dark Passenger is a really good combo in dungeons, why change that?
Yes, it's a great combo in dungeons if you've already used Blood Price and ran out of CD's. Dodging everything is very satisfying. But this shouldn't be the case, you shouldn't have that kind of synergy only work in a dungeon, jobs should be designed for raids, and in turn, work great outside them. Not the other way around.

Aren't you giving PLD too much utility?
Maybe... but it's still the most overshadowed tank! giving it a means to restore party members TP would be very desireable.

DRK is drowning in TP now...
So is WAR?

I might edit this some more, I've had these thoughts and ideas in my head for a while, I want to know what you guys think though, are theses changes too much? please be constructive if so. Would love feedback on this!

Edit: Just to clarify I made this thread to get my idea's just out there, I know some of them might not be the best or the most balanced/needed but SE isn't going to take what I say anyways so it's really just for fun.

Edit 2: I know some of this wouldn't even solve the essential need of a WAR, it's more to bring up the 2 tanks to WAR's standards. Unfortunately it's hard to replace WAR while it still reserves the slashing debuff. Although I think in 4.0 this will be addressed. And yes... the Slashing debuff, I know Path is a brilliant skill but having a PLD/DRK would bring Reprisal and Divine Veil. This is why the slashing debuff is such an important aspect of having a WAR, and I truly look forward to how they'll address this in 4.0. (Probably just give all tanks a slashing debuff... )

I stopped reading once I read "jobs should be designed for raids".

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I stopped reading once I read "jobs should be designed for raids".

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thank you for your valuable input.....

hilariously enough, why base a job around dungeons when the main end game is literally the raids, which the jobs are already tweaked and designed around anyway? WHAT A HUGE. COINCIDENCE.

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Originally Posted by Lovescake

thank you for your valuable input.....

hilariously enough, why base a job around dungeons when the main end game is literally the raids, which the jobs are already tweaked and designed around anyway? WHAT A HUGE. COINCIDENCE.

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You base a job around Dungeons, Trials and Raids, ergo the whole game. Not just a part of it. And even then OP doesn't even solve DRK's OT issues in the face of a Monk. Wants to give DRK a TP restore it doesn't even need and wants to get rid of one of the most fun things about DRK which is evasion boosts. You'd think someone who wants changes would focus on more Grit only effects instead of QoL changes they change little for overall team composition.

By making Flash oGCD I guess PLD's will have even more reason to complain about Aggro generation at lower levels. Good suggestion for sure.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

You base a job around Dungeons, Trials and Raids, ergo the whole game. Not just a part of it. And even then OP doesn't even solve DRK's OT issues in the face of a Monk. Wants to give DRK a TP restore it doesn't even need and wants to get rid of one of the most fun things about DRK which is evasion boosts. You'd think someone who wants changes would focus on more Grit only effects instead of QoL changes they change little for overall team composition.

By making Flash oGCD I guess PLD's will have even more reason to complain about Aggro generation at lower levels. Good suggestion for sure.

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Your a funny one. Not a single piece of constructive criticism just stupid nitpicking. If you actually read my post, which you said you wouldn't but mentioning the PLD change proves you have read it.
You would of seen that I clearly state when you design a job around raiding it goes hand in hand with everything else. If you give a job "RAID Utility" It generally translates into dungeons and trials as well.

The funnest part of DRK is the evasion? Do you literally just play DRK in dungeons and nothing else? The fun part of DRK is managing your MP, mitigating damage like a boss and doing a lot of DPS while at it. The evasion aspect is literally the worst part of DRK's toolkit. It's a last resort at most, even then your 2nd blood price will be up by the time there is even a need to do the whole DA Dark Dance + DA Dark Passenger. This creates a bad synergy with it's own toolkit not even cross classed with another job, this isn't right.

Maybe if you used your imagination and not take what I say without making obvious adjustments you wouldn't of even made such a silly post. I should of made it more clear but I thought people would think, if you swapped Circle of Scorn with Flash then obviously give Circle of Scorn at level 10 or whatever and just make flash the Job Quest skill (Making it exclusive to PLD and removing it from the Cross Class section) not the most satisfying acquirement but it would really amp up the PLD AoE.

Edit: The Delirium thing as well? Stuff like this would have to be saved for 4.0, I couldn't personally change anything about WAR's spot in general until new skills are added. This thread was just to get my idea's out there, but obviously that was stupid of me.

I'll be kinda brief in my responses to these suggestions:

PLD

- oGCD stances should never be a thing for DRK/PLD IMO. What I'd prefer is to give them extra, stance-specific effects on certain skills instead. DRK has this currently with Grit-Souleater (even then it's not that impressive, however) so a move in that direction would help differentiate things between the 3 tanks.

- Sheltron just needs to provide TP, period. Just seems odd that a physical only CD doesn't provide a physical based resource, but magic instead.

- Wouldn't mind Clemency being oGCD (not with the TP gain though, too similar to Equilibrium). Flash and CoS changes... eh. Would rather just see Flash do damage instead if it came to it. Nothing major (like 50pot or something) but enough to aid PLD in AOE situations a bit more.

- Veil suggestion is cool, no harm there I guess.

DRK

- Co-sign having DA DD increase parry rate.

- An AoE silence? No, the blind effect is fine. Besides even if you made it a silence, no DRK would waste MP on it when other silence users can do theirs for free.

- MP refresh how? Like Blood Price or Shroud/LA? Either way Shadow Wall does need something more than being a Sentinel-lite. Not sure if this suggestion is the answer though.

- There has to be some kind of trade off for making BW available under Grit. Keeping it as is would probably make the Job broken.

- Do DRK even have TP issues for Sole Surivor to get changed like this? Yes WAR getting a mini Invigorate was silly but you can't use that as reasoning to give another Job something it doesn't need.

In conclusion, these suggestions give me the impression that you just want DRK/PLD to be another flavour of WAR, instead of emphasising their own individual elements to make them stand out more. I get that this is your wishlist of what you'd want, but it nonetheless suffers from the same problems these kind of threads get: it doesn't address the things that should be changed, but simply what you want changed, because reasons.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

I'll be kinda brief in my responses to these suggestions:

PLD

- oGCD stances should never be a thing for DRK/PLD IMO. What I'd prefer is to give them extra, stance-specific effects on certain skills instead. DRK has this currently with Grit-Souleater (even then it's not that impressive, however) so a move in that direction would help differentiate things between the 3 tanks.

- Sheltron just needs to provide TP, period. Just seems odd that a physical only CD doesn't provide a physical based resource, but magic instead.

- Wouldn't mind Clemency being oGCD (not with the TP gain though, too similar to Equilibrium). Flash and CoS changes... eh. Would rather just see Flash do damage instead if it came to it. Nothing major (like 50pot or something) but enough to aid PLD in AOE situations a bit more.

- Veil suggestion is cool, no harm there I guess.

DRK

- Co-sign having DA DD increase parry rate.

- An AoE silence? No, the blind effect is fine. Besides even if you made it a silence, no DRK would waste MP on it when other silence users can do theirs for free.

- MP refresh how? Like Blood Price or Shroud/LA? Either way Shadow Wall does need something more than being a Sentinel-lite. Not sure if this suggestion is the answer though.

- There has to be some kind of trade off for making BW available under Grit. Keeping it as is would probably make the Job broken.

- Do DRK even have TP issues for Sole Surivor to get changed like this? Yes WAR getting a mini Invigorate was silly but you can't use that as reasoning to give another Job something it doesn't need.

In conclusion, these suggestions give me the impression that you just want DRK/PLD to be another flavour of WAR, instead of emphasising their own individual elements to make them stand out more. I get that this is your wishlist of what you'd want, but it nonetheless suffers from the same problems these kind of threads get: it doesn't address the things that should be changed, but simply what you want changed, because reasons.

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I like this comment because it's very constructive, so I appreciate it. Although the things I still nitpick is the Blind is not fine, an AoE silence will be extremely viable, and not even broken. the Sole Survivor thing was just a thing which isn't too important, It's just triggering how odd the TP looks when playing DRK... I believe giving Shadow Wall an MP refresh will give it a lot more flavour and can't think of what else you would give it (Yes Shroud). The PLD thing was more for Aesthetics, the flash animation doing damage just looks silly, although I wouldn't mind it. Please change the animation and name, maybe trait it "Holy Flash", dealing holy aspected damage. I disagree with your last point as well, I am in no way trying to just make them WAR clones. For PLD you can see I emphasis on giving them more Utility, as that's the type of Tank PLD is. For DRK I emphasis on getting rid of the evasion as it's not needed, creating OT friendly mechanics (Because jobs based on OTing and MTing is just bad, all 3 tanks should be able to MT and OT at the same effectiveness with different pro's and con's.) I also emphasis more on the "magic tank" due to silencing... Idk why silencing on DRK wasn't a thing.

4.0 should be exciting with the thorough changes that have been promised (I hope? SE pls).

None of these changes you desire addresses how a tank relates to the other tank. This is the 2 tanks slots we are talking about. When you give classes too much utilities, they get abused heavily. See SCH and WAR. These are the 2 jobs currently very prominent in the raid up till now.

Let's see about how we evaluate the real changes that SE might think. Every raid tier is heavily tuned by how much the current jobs can do. Taking utilities away will inevitably make the said jobs easier thus SE will have to tune the difficulty again. Likewise, you overload utilities, damage output blablabla and guess what? The need to perfectly do your utilities to the dot or you cant survive the said mechanics. Bosses' HP will have to be higher if the potential damage output from the jobs is really high.

TLDR: removing/releasing powerful skills will affect how the raid will interact with you. Especially more relevant to how fast a raid tier is first cleared.

If you see the current Creator Savage, people might think it's easy to clear. Sure, easy to clear in full i270. In full i250 however? SCH and WAR are just too powerful for any team not to bring to tackle a new raid tier due to the amount of damage you take in such a low ilvl environment.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

wants to get rid of one of the most fun things about DRK which is evasion boosts.

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Is evasion really that fun to play around? That is IMO at the same level of usefulness as Parry. Dem RNG rolls. Can I please evade a tank buster, SE pls? Anyone?

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Originally Posted by Katana190

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A few things that gave me the 'another flavour of WAR vibe':

- oGCD stances, right down to the recast times. Same as WAR, except PLD/DRK ones would cost MP (yet when put side by side with WAR, would end up putting WAR at a disadvantage).

- oGCD TP refresh (Clemency), just like Equilibrium. Yes, you also included how PLDs can also get it through using it on others but I see that as just tacking it onto Clemency's current effect regarding HP.

- Your Shadow Wall idea reminded me of Unchained (nullification of a stance's penalty), plus the three-tiered element of it (mitigation, stance penalty nullification, MP refresh) gave me a Vengeance vibe (mitigation, +1 Wrath/Abandon, autoattack damage reflection)

Nonetheless, I didn't come here to nitpick, it's just the impression I got from seeing some of your suggestions.

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Although the things I still nitpick is the Blind is not fine, an AoE silence will be extremely viable, and not even broken.

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In what meaningful scenario would an AoE silence be valid, outside of say PvP? It's worth noting that MNKs have an AoE silence yet it's been nowhere close to being viable (unless as a desperate last resort tactic).

Now I wouldn't be opposed to DP becoming a silence, but if that happened then I'd expect the ability to become a free cost, single-target oGCD (like the majority of silences in this game are), along with the DA modification removed (or changed accordingly). Heck, they could take the silence from Spirit's Within and replace that with a SwO-only additional effect.

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I believe giving Shadow Wall an MP refresh will give it a lot more flavour and can't think of what else you would give it (Yes Shroud).

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Thing is, DRK already has Blood Price, Blood Weapon, C&S, and even comboed Syphon Strike as MP-sustinance options, so I don't think they need a Shroud equivalent on top of that.

Regarding Shadow Wall as a whole, I was thinking that DRK could get a reflect-type ability (to highlight their 'magic gimmick' theme) added to it, then realised that it would be like Vengeance (unless they downgraded Vengeance to have only 2 effects in response).

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I disagree with your last point as well, I am in no way trying to just make them WAR clones. For PLD you can see I emphasis on giving them more Utility, as that's the type of Tank PLD is.

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The issue with PLD is that they have quite a bit of utility as it is. The problem is that they're either niche, or only benefit the PLD themselves, so SE can't design content to make them important otherwise it forces PLD to become the 'must-have' tank. The design to PLD should be simple: lowest personal damage but able to raise the damage and survival options of the raid through its defensive options and support skills.

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For DRK I emphasis on getting rid of the evasion as it's not needed,

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Which I also agreed with changing.

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creating OT friendly mechanics (Because jobs based on OTing and MTing is just bad, all 3 tanks should be able to MT and OT at the same effectiveness with different pro's and con's.)

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If you're referring to the Reprisal idea, then yeah... I didn't want to go there in my initial post but on the whole I feel moves like that need to be adjusted so they're not revolved around the user having to take damage. Then it would get rid of the meta where one Tank has to be MT/OT etc.

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I also emphasis more on the "magic tank" due to silencing... Idk why silencing on DRK wasn't a thing.

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Wanting to give DRK a silence (or some other magic-related gimmick) is fine. I just don't agree on it being an AoE silence.

you do know that pld without The CoS is going to lose dps on single targets which is most on bosses i would buff the DoT dmg and make flash 25 potency with the blind effect. Drk doesn't have a tp issue cuz blood weapon unless your mt tanking but even still War

Shield Oath/Sword Oath - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
"Yeah this I wouldn't mind but alternate the CD's a bit, maybe 5 seconds would be better with it having MP cost"

Sheltron - Can be used to either 100% block the next incoming attack (Vanila) or to make the next spell uninterruptible. Also while active allows the use of Shield Swipe, even if you haven't blocked. (OT Friendly)
"Sheltron dose black the next incoming attack, only physical though. As for the spell interupt I don't see a much use for that majorly.

Clemency - oGCD with 30s CD. still uses the same MP. Cure Potency of 1200 and TP restoration of 200. If cast on another party member the effect is halved on you also, like Vanila, but this time you'll get half the TP which is 100TP back
"Na don't put it on CD, it's a pretty potent heal spell with enough drawback of a castime and 2 use's before you have to gain back your MP as for the TP part, doesn't seem to fit into it well"


Circle of Scorn - Now on the GCD, same potency which is 100, but DoT is taken away. Uses TP or MP, I think TP would be the way to go to create self Clemency synergy.
"As much need for PLD having a AOE I think it needs a new one, I like how COS is at the moment"

Flash - Is now on the oGCD! same effect and MP usage as before, with a CD of something like 15-20s maybe more? maybe less. This will help with AoE and Single target aggro a lot, would be very handy on tank swaps and the such. Almost would say it might be worth Cross Classing now.
"Na, PLD has trouble keeping aggro in low level dungeons and if adds pop up during boss fights but your Flash is on CD you'll have some trouble do making this be a OCGD would make it hard for PLD/GLA to keep aggro. Maybe if it had another AOE Aggro skill then maybe yes"


Divine Veil - Give me a visual animation when it's proc'ed to show it's radius, similar to deployment tactics.
You mean by when you have it active the AOE circle shows for you and your members then it procs?

DRK

Grit - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
Putting it on reset GCD but off it doesn't. eh, I've got no real qualms with it, only that it's MP cost should be lowered.


Dark Dance - Dark Art's effect now just doubles the parry rate and grants a unique buff to 100% parry the next incoming attack to create synergy with Reprisal. This or do the same with how I want Sheltron to work, allow the use of Reprisal upon activation of Dark Dance. Making it OT friendly
"This I like, DRK should have more instant parry like WAR's."

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.
See the thing about Silence use is when you see a Enemy readying a attack then you can instantly use it, to use this would require a DA+DP for the silence to be in effect other wise you wont have enough time"

Shadow Wall - Once active, along with the 30% mitigation, gives an MP refresh while active and negates Dark Side's draining effect while active, make this more unique then a watered down Sentinel.
Since your messing with MP and negating Darkside it would be used as a Damage buffer for a extra SE combo so maybe something else.


Blood Weapon - Allowed to use while inside Grit. Who uses Grit anyways? (I've always been argued for this one, maybe it would be broke?)
Blood weapons main purpose is for OTing otherwise as a MT you get your MP from hits with blood price so OT needs a way to regain MP. To enable it in the use of Grit would make it's MP gain a little too high, yes you can drop grit to use it whilst MTing but at a cost of extra damage.


Sole Survivor - Along with the HP and MP you get, restore 20% of TP as well, which would be 200TP
This I could get down with but need to alternate the TP cost so that it isn't too much.

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Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess

Shield Oath/Sword Oath - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
"Yeah this I wouldn't mind but alternate the CD's a bit, maybe 5 seconds would be better with it having MP cost"

Sheltron - Can be used to either 100% block the next incoming attack (Vanila) or to make the next spell uninterruptible. Also while active allows the use of Shield Swipe, even if you haven't blocked. (OT Friendly)
"Sheltron dose black the next incoming attack, only physical though. As for the spell interupt I don't see a much use for that majorly.

Clemency - oGCD with 30s CD. still uses the same MP. Cure Potency of 1200 and TP restoration of 200. If cast on another party member the effect is halved on you also, like Vanila, but this time you'll get half the TP which is 100TP back
"Na don't put it on CD, it's a pretty potent heal spell with enough drawback of a castime and 2 use's before you have to gain back your MP as for the TP part, doesn't seem to fit into it well"


Circle of Scorn - Now on the GCD, same potency which is 100, but DoT is taken away. Uses TP or MP, I think TP would be the way to go to create self Clemency synergy.
"As much need for PLD having a AOE I think it needs a new one, I like how COS is at the moment"

Flash - Is now on the oGCD! same effect and MP usage as before, with a CD of something like 15-20s maybe more? maybe less. This will help with AoE and Single target aggro a lot, would be very handy on tank swaps and the such. Almost would say it might be worth Cross Classing now.
"Na, PLD has trouble keeping aggro in low level dungeons and if adds pop up during boss fights but your Flash is on CD you'll have some trouble do making this be a OCGD would make it hard for PLD/GLA to keep aggro. Maybe if it had another AOE Aggro skill then maybe yes"


Divine Veil - Give me a visual animation when it's proc'ed to show it's radius, similar to deployment tactics.
You mean by when you have it active the AOE circle shows for you and your members then it procs?

DRK

Grit - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.
Putting it on reset GCD but off it doesn't. eh, I've got no real qualms with it, only that it's MP cost should be lowered.


Dark Dance - Dark Art's effect now just doubles the parry rate and grants a unique buff to 100% parry the next incoming attack to create synergy with Reprisal. This or do the same with how I want Sheltron to work, allow the use of Reprisal upon activation of Dark Dance. Making it OT friendly
"This I like, DRK should have more instant parry like WAR's."

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.
See the thing about Silence use is when you see a Enemy readying a attack then you can instantly use it, to use this would require a DA+DP for the silence to be in effect other wise you wont have enough time"

Shadow Wall - Once active, along with the 30% mitigation, gives an MP refresh while active and negates Dark Side's draining effect while active, make this more unique then a watered down Sentinel.
Since your messing with MP and negating Darkside it would be used as a Damage buffer for a extra SE combo so maybe something else.


Blood Weapon - Allowed to use while inside Grit. Who uses Grit anyways? (I've always been argued for this one, maybe it would be broke?)
Blood weapons main purpose is for OTing otherwise as a MT you get your MP from hits with blood price so OT needs a way to regain MP. To enable it in the use of Grit would make it's MP gain a little too high, yes you can drop grit to use it whilst MTing but at a cost of extra damage.


Sole Survivor - Along with the HP and MP you get, restore 20% of TP as well, which would be 200TP
This I could get down with but need to alternate the TP cost so that it isn't too much.

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Thanks for the feedback! I honestly think the whole bringing the other 2 tanks up to WAR standards will be resolved with 4.0 like Yoshi P has said, it's just fun to try and come up with some stuff if they were to do it now. But some of these seem a bit broke as stated x)

Edit: The Divine Veil change would just be a visual thing, the initial animation with the sword flip is really cool! don't get me wrong. It's just when you heal it/get healed, it doesn't show any visual effect to show it's gone off and to show it's radius. making a similar animation to deploy would be really cool!

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

you do know that pld without The CoS is going to lose dps on single targets which is most on bosses i would buff the DoT dmg and make flash 25 potency with the blind effect. Drk doesn't have a tp issue cuz blood weapon unless your mt tanking but even still War

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I realised this after posting tbh. The whole CoS being a gcd instead would indeed decrease PLD's single target damage... So altering flash's animation and name like I previously stated might be a better way forward. But they'll probably just get some AoE in 4.0

Np, I just think people take these things all too seriously and shouldn't really because it's just a suggestion and shouldn't expect spot on answers.

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Originally Posted by Katana190

junk

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DADP+DADD is useful for mitigating most if not all damage on large groups that can be blinded. By expending all of your MP to increase your evasion you can safely drop Grit and go ham on everything and once your evasion boosts wear off you can pop both Grit and Blood Price back on. It's a win-win. Hullbreaker Hard? Rhiki's Fell Cleave? I've dodged it. It can work in niche circumstances but when it does oh is it SATISFYING!

In situations where mobs or a boss(especially bosses where the devs do not allow you to dodge a Tankbuster ever) cannot be blinded you can forego enhancing DD for a strict increased Parry rate. In most raids they make everything immune to everything but there are instances where some mobs are effected and the evasion boosts can be utilized.

You suggest changes yet are not specific about them. You mention Flash and CoS yet say nothing about switching level of acquisition with them. Do not make assumptions that it was a given. You clarify that so no one is confused. If anything you are nitpicking because your suggestion can easily be interpreted as bad because of that fact. Especially with the asinine design decision to give PLD their Tank stance at level 40. The other 2 get their's at 30. 30!

WAR is oGCD because the other 2 get 20% DR effective immediately. Warrior does not. They get increased HP and additional healing received and are reliant on IB and other defensive skills for any DR at all. The other 2? Nope.

Here I'll run down the rest of your suggestions and base them around a raiding environment since apparently that's the only thing that you care about.

Sheltron/Dark Dance - You want to basically auto-proc SS/Reprisal for free or guarantee a free spell. Helpful for OT utilities yes but ultimately goes against design policy. Ergo requires an actual block or parry to work and make sense. And honestly if you want to double Parry Rate why not be a lame and just give 100% parry chance on next physical attack? But let's not get ahead of ourselves with Raw Intuition AKA "Parry: The Skill".

Clemency - Let's be honest the only reason you want a TP restore on this is because a PLD in long fights is drained of all their TP and is in dire need of a TP restore function. WAR can restore their own and a DRK doesn't even need it with all their oGCD and MP using skills to the point they can pop Sprint and not give a shit.

CoS/Flash - Concept is good. Failing to mention level of acquisition is not. But if you make Flash oGCD wouldn't you have to make OP and Unleash oGCD as well? Balance issues abound.

Divine Veil - This is a good suggestion. And should be applied to every beneficial support skill with a radius of effect.

Dark Passenger - Other classes can silence for free. Most stuff you use DP on can't be silenced anyway. You now have a straight line AoE attack. And you lose mitigation on dodging attacks. Wheee! You want an AoE silence? Allow us to DA Salted Earth! AoE passive silence for all but the DRK who used it. Wow amazing! PvP potential too! Even more amazing!

Shadow Wall - An okay suggestion. I'd rather we just rip off WAR's Vengeance though but get double the MP restore if BP is in effect.

Blood Weapon - I'd say to make it usable in Grit but here's the thing. In Grit it gives HP restores instead of MP and outside of Grit it gives back MP. And would help with DRK's problem of HP sustain.

Sole Survivor - Yes let's give a TP restore you don't even need. Don't even need! Why not allow us to target Party Members if you know they'll die. Hell just make it a drain spell. PLD and WAR essentially have on demand 1200 potency heals, the DRK well something has to die by players or by mechanics within 15 seconds or rip you.

And with Delirium it's amazing how with a Monk it's secondary effect is rendered worthless.

Those are my thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

DADP+DADD is useful for mitigating most if not all damage on large groups that can be blinded. By expending all of your MP to increase your evasion you can safely drop Grit and go ham on everything and once your evasion boosts wear off you can pop both Grit and Blood Price back on. It's a win-win. Hullbreaker Hard? Rhiki's Fell Cleave? I've dodged it. It can work in niche circumstances but when it does oh is it SATISFYING!

In situations where mobs or a boss(especially bosses where the devs do not allow you to dodge a Tankbuster ever) cannot be blinded you can forego enhancing DD for a strict increased Parry rate. In most raids they make everything immune to everything but there are instances where some mobs are effected and the evasion boosts can be utilized.

You suggest changes yet are not specific about them. You mention Flash and CoS yet say nothing about switching level of acquisition with them. Do not make assumptions that it was a given. You clarify that so no one is confused. If anything you are nitpicking because your suggestion can easily be interpreted as bad because of that fact. Especially with the asinine design decision to give PLD their Tank stance at level 40. The other 2 get their's at 30. 30!

WAR is oGCD because the other 2 get 20% DR effective immediately. Warrior does not. They get increased HP and additional healing received and are reliant on IB and other defensive skills for any DR at all. The other 2? Nope.

Here I'll run down the rest of your suggestions and base them around a raiding environment since apparently that's the only thing that you care about.

Sheltron/Dark Dance - You want to basically auto-proc SS/Reprisal for free or guarantee a free spell. Helpful for OT utilities yes but ultimately goes against design policy. Ergo requires an actual block or parry to work and make sense. And honestly if you want to double Parry Rate why not be a lame and just give 100% parry chance on next physical attack? But let's not get ahead of ourselves with Raw Intuition AKA "Parry: The Skill".

Clemency - Let's be honest the only reason you want a TP restore on this is because a PLD in long fights is drained of all their TP and is in dire need of a TP restore function. WAR can restore their own and a DRK doesn't even need it with all their oGCD and MP using skills to the point they can pop Sprint and not give a shit.

CoS/Flash - Concept is good. Failing to mention level of acquisition is not. But if you make Flash oGCD wouldn't you have to make OP and Unleash oGCD as well? Balance issues abound.

Divine Veil - This is a good suggestion. And should be applied to every beneficial support skill with a radius of effect.

Dark Passenger - Other classes can silence for free. Most stuff you use DP on can't be silenced anyway. You now have a straight line AoE attack. And you lose mitigation on dodging attacks. Wheee! You want an AoE silence? Allow us to DA Salted Earth! AoE passive silence for all but the DRK who used it. Wow amazing! PvP potential too! Even more amazing!

Shadow Wall - An okay suggestion. I'd rather we just rip off WAR's Vengeance though but get double the MP restore if BP is in effect.

Blood Weapon - I'd say to make it usable in Grit but here's the thing. In Grit it gives HP restores instead of MP and outside of Grit it gives back MP. And would help with DRK's problem of HP sustain.

Sole Survivor - Yes let's give a TP restore you don't even need. Don't even need! Why not allow us to target Party Members if you know they'll die. Hell just make it a drain spell. PLD and WAR essentially have on demand 1200 potency heals, the DRK well something has to die by players or by mechanics within 15 seconds or rip you.

And with Delirium it's amazing how with a Monk it's secondary effect is rendered worthless.

Those are my thoughts.

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You see. Your actually constructive in this post. But still calling my quote "Junk", Wtf is that about? You obviously seem to have something against me, or just a very rude nature, which really discredits yourself. Maybe you hate the fact that creating a job around raiding only brings positives things to a job.. rather then designing a skill for only dungeons making it garbage in any other scenario.

But let's break some of this down.

Sole Survivor - change as I said is more something different. I've just had in my head before the Blood Weapon change, a bit worthless mentioning it now but meh

Shadow Wall - This would proceed to make it just a watered down Vengeance rather then Sentinel, I want something different to the other tank. Just my opinion though

Blood Weapon - This suggestion is pretty amazing tbh. Never thought of that.

Dark Passenger - as mentioned from someone else... getting off a silence with a DA + DP would be difficult to time.

Dark Dance/Sheltron - PLD's have it easy with this one, I usually just cover the MT and pop Sheltron. Free Shield Swipe. You can't really do this on DRK, there needs to be a way around this.. maybe popping Dark Art's allows the use of Reprisal?

Edit: If people really like the whole Blind + Dark Dance combo, then who am I to take that away from them. It's just not viable in raids and it annoys me, but NOBODY is telling me to DA - Dark Dance and Blind. It's optional, I can just use Dark Dance without DA and DA DP only when 2 + targets. It's not a dire change, just a suggestion I thought was worth mentioning, but obvsouly some people might find this enjoyable so, so be it I guess.

Edit 2: I've got good idea's from this thread so far tbh, and it's all really appreciated! Even if delivered in a pretty crude manor..

I'm fine with Grit/Oath being GCD, I guess from just being accustomed to it for so long now. An easier goal post to hit I think would be to allow the stances to toggle-off more responsively midGCD, instead of having to wait until 70+ % through the GCD before it sticks.

With that, Grit-off > Blood Weapon oGCD double-weaving wouldn't delay my GCD, and this fks with my rhythm v.v

It seems like a technical oversight and not deliberate design element anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katana190

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.

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No, thanks!

The thing is, I'd rather Blind the mobs to reduce the chances of them hitting me. No all mobs use magic.

As a pet peeve, it bothers me when a player who is DRK main use Blood Price, then pop Dark Arts + Dark Passenger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katana190

You see. Your actually constructive in this post. But still calling my quote "Junk", Wtf is that about?

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I was lazy. And I prefer to not clot up the thread. That simple. Yes I am blunt and up front. Just how I am. Apologies if I offend you.

Make Shadow Wall do something unique then because right now it's just a watered down Sentinel and your changes make it a DRK version of Unchained IMO. Take off penalties is esentially what you want it to do which is Unchained. SW is in a strange place right now.

So you agree your suggestion on making DADP a silence isn't really helpful or unique. Plopping Silence on Delirium would be the better choice.

See DA gives the Evasion buff. DD by itself just gives increased Parry. And Reprisal's gimmick is that it's a counter move. IMO while DD is up Parry chance is increased and Reprisal has no cooldown while DD is in effect, but each time it is used requires another Parry to proc it.

Could probably add a trait where Low Blow has a chance to proc Reprisal much like a Parry has a chance to reset Low Blow CD. Counter moves should have a cooldown based on what procs it, not you got to use it and have to wait 30 seconds. More deeps and you get the debuff on the enemy to stick decreasing outgoing damage from the enemy. All good things and would give the DRK some OT utility to boot!

Nobody is telling you to DADP + DADD because it is an advanced technique only useful in niche encounters but has it's place there in those encounters. In raids not so much.

Sole Survivor. I really don't like having my 1200 potency heal locked behind the whims of the party when the other 2 Tanks essentially get their's every other minute of a fight. Not fair! We could use the buff it got in PvP if they want to keep it as a 120 second cooldown thing. Oh but then every party will run 1 DRK and 2 Ninja to keep Vulnerability up up once a minute for 10 seconds for anything and everything. And then we have disparity between party composition again. -_____-

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Only reason to use DADP if Blind doesn't work is more damage and MP is plentiful.

People hyping up RNG mitigation (evasion)? There's a reason it's only effective against trash mobs....

I think the reality of the DADP thing is that nobody wants to spend a DA on a silence. They're (silence and blind) equally useless in a lot of situations, but at least with trash blind has some use like flash. The silence might have mechanical utility, but nobody is going to use it for a silence in say A6S when a Bard/Ninja/Machinist/Paladin can do the same for way cheaper.

Also DRK doesn't need to be a good OT. It just really needs to be the best MT DPS and it'll see play.

People really want parity between the tanks in terms of MT/OT potential, but really DRK will be fine if it is just a great MT. It's got a solid spot. Paladin is the only tank that really needs some OT consideration imho.

But that's not a conversation for this thread, so I digress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

People hyping up RNG mitigation (evasion)? There's a reason it's only effective against trash mobs....

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This is false, you can dodge bosses all the way up into savage raids, but only their AAs. Not something to count on, but not something to pretend doesn't exist either.

Shield Oath/Sword Oath - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.

I'm not feeling the oGCD vibe for PLD/DRK because the damage reduction is instantly applied, versus stronger incoming heals. What I feel like needs to be a change is Sword Oath and Shield Oath need to be on the same button, and be an automatic switch, or to a slight extreme make Sword Oath a constant passive, so your only giving up one GCD instead of two when swapping stances.

Sheltron - Can be used to either 100% block the next incoming attack (Vanila) or to make the next spell uninterruptible. Also while active allows the use of Shield Swipe, even if you haven't blocked. (OT Friendly)

Honestly this is such an awesome ability as is that it doesn't need a change. However Bulwark being given the additional effect of blocking magic damage would be fantastic and allow the use of shield swipe while off tanking (magic is usually aoe, mix Bulwark and Sheltron). PLD should also have a built in Surecast IMHO.

Clemency - oGCD with 30s CD. still uses the same MP. Cure Potency of 1200 and TP restoration of 200. If cast on another party member the effect is halved on you also, like Vanila, but this time you'll get half the TP which is 100TP back

Isn't really needed. Clemecy doesn't need to be Equilibrium the Spell. I, personally, would love to see the goring combo be more of a restoration combo where it restores MP first and TP on the last hit, and the power of the dot being rework into overall weaponskill potency.


Circle of Scorn - Now on the GCD, same potency which is 100, but DoT is taken away. Uses TP or MP, I think TP would be the way to go to create self Clemency synergy.

Please don't switch CoS. It feels so nice and works so well overall. Its also such an awesome skill to get for hitting lvl 50.

Flash - Is now on the oGCD! same effect and MP usage as before, with a CD of something like 15-20s maybe more? maybe less. This will help with AoE and Single target aggro a lot, would be very handy on tank swaps and the such. Almost would say it might be worth Cross Classing now.

I would advise heavily against this. Flash is honestly more of a mitigation tool than something that should be spammed over and over again. If they would switch blind to auto attacks only and start allowing it to work in raids the true strength of this on demand blind in aoe would really show like they originally intended. It, plus block and parry chance, were a very powerful mix of GLD/PLD's passive mitigation.


Instead I suggest a much more heavy switch. Turn Sword and Shield oath into one spell gained at level 30. Replace the level 40 ability with Shield Swipe, yes the level 30 quest GLD ability. Lastly, add in generic spin-attack as the spammable AoE and level 30 GLD quest reward. A spammable AoE for threat gen that does damage isn't homologizing, its the base standard for how the game has evolved. You can tell the original idea was the tank marks the order and smaller pulls which would make PLD's lack of AoE make more sense. Now you would only do this when you have two melee whose AoE is too weak compared to their ability to melt single targets at once.

Divine Veil - Give me a visual animation when it's proc'ed to show it's radius, similar to deployment tactics.
I can get down with this actually.

DRK


Grit - No Longer on the GCD, has been put on the oGCD with a 10 second recast timer. MP Requirement still there.

Just remove the need for the GCD to finish before removing it.

Dark Dance - Dark Art's effect now just doubles the parry rate and grants a unique buff to 100% parry the next incoming attack to create synergy with Reprisal. This or do the same with how I want Sheltron to work, allow the use of Reprisal upon activation of Dark Dance. Making it OT friendly

This is a whole lot of getting without any real give. One Dark Arts isn't as much of a trade where as WAR gives crit chance on flanks and rear, and has a 90sec CD for 100 percent rate. Dark Arts should allow the forcing of a Reprisal instead of keeping it reliant on parry. But since I mainly use DRK in dungeons I like the ability as is in a bias way.

Dark Passenger - Dark Art's effect now silences rather then blinds, make that emphasis on DRK being the mage tank more apparent.

While it is odd the anti-magic tank doesn't have silence, I'm just going to let PLD and the support DPS have that bit of importance.

Shadow Wall - Once active, along with the 30% mitigation, gives an MP refresh while active and negates Dark Side's draining effect while active, make this more unique then a watered down Sentinel.

Shadow Wall will continue to be this obscure mixture of Sentinal and Vengence as long as we have Dark Mind. Its just the nature of its balance. That CD being only a minute long for 30 percent magic damage really makes it hard to have a more useful second 30 percent damage reduction.

Blood Weapon - Allowed to use while inside Grit. Who uses Grit anyways? (I've always been argued for this one, maybe it would be broke?)

While I do want this, and I do, it would be impossible to run out of MP unless you were doing something really bad. I think this is just one we're gonna have to accept. But I do want it.


Sole Survivor - Along with the HP and MP you get, restore 20% of TP as well, which would be 200TP

I personally want Sole Survivor to either get its PVP ability and be useful the entire fight, or be reworked into an actual self heal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

This is false, you can dodge bosses all the way up into savage raids, but only their AAs. Not something to count on, but not something to pretend doesn't exist either.

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But considering the damages of auto attacks and tank busters you can't really say evasion is effective against raid bosses though. I don't know if you can dodge tank busters, but even if you can, as long as you don't have 100% dodge rate you can't rely on it since you'll have to use enough cds and get healed enough to prepare for the case you don't dodge them. I think it's like crit heals, something nice to have during certain times but not exactly something you rely on.

DRK doesn't need a 100% parry move on a 40 second recast. That's essentially Sheltron in exchange for a DA use.

The problem with DADD at the moment is that it's harder to justify the MP expenditure when there's a chance that you may not even get a dodge proc out of it, especially in single target against a mob with a lower AA rate. As the total number of attacks while the skill is active increases (i.e. the rate), however, you are more likely to achieve the expected dodge/parry rate. This is why the 20% evasion from DADD appears more reliable when tanking large numbers of mobs.

I don't think that reprisal should be usable when you're not actively tanking. The word "reprisal" implies a counterattack. What might be interesting, though, is if DADD made your parries reset your Reprisal recast while it was active, similar to the Low Blows trait. Instead of spending DA to turn DD into some variant of Bulwark, you'd be spending it to go into a flurry of ripostes and kicks.

Speaking of Bulwark, you could just as easily apply the same idea and have block procs reset the Shield Swipe recast while the ability is active.

I like the idea of giving DRK access to silence from thematic, raiding, and PvP balance perspectives, but I wouldn't be a fan of tying it in to DADP. The main reason for using DA on DP is the potency gain with multiple mobs present. The blind is a secondary effect. It's quite costly. If you're going to reserve it for use to silence a single specific mob, it's probably going to be a much bigger dps loss than letting one of the existing jobs who have access to it do it.

Looking at the other suggestions, the BW change strikes me as unnecessary. There are plenty of reasons to drop Grit, so you usually have ready access to it. Shadow Wall's lower DR is likely due to the fact that we have access to DM. If you don't use DA, DM + SW gives you the same DR against magic attacks as Sentinel. TP management isn't an issue on DRK, and it's probably for the best that we don't get skills that require us to actively manage it. MP is our primary resource.

While these suggestions are interesting, I don't think that they address weaknesses in DRK's toolkit. The biggest such weakness is the lack of access to self-healing. It feels like Equilibrium and Clemency were added to balance out DASE, but they were overly cautious with DASE's lifesteal. It costs you 12 GCDs in Grit and 3 DA uses to even approach the healing potency of one oGCD use of Equilibrium, before even taking in other self heals into account (SP/IB/ToB). Bloodbath is available for crossclass on DRK, but has poor synergy with our kit because of the physical damage restriction.

I suspect that the design reason for keeping the heal effect on Grit might be to keep BW's speed buff separate from DASE's self-heal. This seems like something that could be balanced by adjusting the heal potency though, and it would be nice to have some halfway decent lifestealing effects for soloing, if nothing else.

Speaking of self-heals, that suggested Clemency change would simultaneously give PLD access to both the Defiance and Deliverance effects of Equilibrium, on half the recast time, with added the option of giving the benefits to a party member of your choice. I'm all for finding ways around the cast time of Clemency, but that seems a bit too powerful. It might be interesting to have Clemency instead become instant cast off of a block proc. Alternatively, you could make it instant cast with a longer recast, and allow block procs to reset it. That might help give some more value to Bulwark, as above.

I think everyone can agree that Flash is the lamest part of the PLD kit. If they did nothing else but change the animation, I'd be happy. Everything about the aesthetic is lame, from the sound to the casting animation to the actual spell animation.

This is completely ignoring the mechanics of the spell, which are (arguably) fine. It just seems so out of place. Compared to the WAR and DRK equivalent, Flash is just so LAME.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Katana190

Snip

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PLD

Shield Oath/Sword Oath - Yes please.

Sheltron - I wouldn't add access to the Shield Swipe even if you didn't block, it is supposed to be a reward for using this skill correctly. I think the best change for Sheltron is: "...if you successfully block an incoming attack, you will restore MP and deal X potency back to the attacker".

Clemency - 200 TP every 30 sec is a bit too OP. I think this skill is fine atm, i would rather heal myself/members 3 times in a row in clutch situations, than using it only once per 30 sec.

Circle of Scorn - I guess you wanted to add some aoe dmg potential, but as ppl said, it will nerf single target dmg of PLD. Tbh I would remove Flash and add a completely new aoe skill "Sword Swipe" - 180 degrees cleave in front of the pld, dealing X potency.

Flash - Remove this skill completely

Divine Veil - Some visual indicator would be nice

DRK

Grit - Honestly i think the mp cost is too huge for a skill that just swaps stances.

Dark Dance - I like this change, drk really needs manual Reprisal proc.

Dark Passenger - Silence doesnt work in this game :P I would add bleed effect if its empowered by Dark Arts

Shadow Wall - i don't know, the mp refresh doesnt make sense for me design wise, i have no clue how make this skill unique.

Blood Weapon - Its like having Sword stance with Shield Oath, there needs to be trade offs if you want to deal more dmg.

Sole Survivor - i would just reduce the cd by half.

I agree with having DRKs and PLDs stances being oGCD. For those who are saying that its an instant DR compare to how WAR has to regain hp. Remember that WAR are based around sacrificing damage reduction to increase damage, which they in turn heal from.

For me, the main PLD/DRK issues are simply:

• WAR has an cost only in one stance change direction, which is then partly mitigated by Defiance's lingering effect on HoTs in exchange, while stances changes are necessarily output losses for both DRK and PLD, especially due to the GCD cost.

  That doesn't mean that they need to lose the GCD component, only that it must be mitigated or proportionately provide some other output. For instance, if Grit were to create an absorb shield upon use, that would be an compensating output. Even then, the aim should probably be towards what *feels* best, or smoothest, or most fun, which the mitigating the GCD component may be an especially appropriate means for, but it is still only one among multiple options.

• PLD and DRK, in increasing order, are dependent on the MT position for their damage. While the WAR can still benefit from off-role (offensive) use of his mitigation cooldowns, the others cannot. The PLD at least has Cover available, but the DRK has nothing.

  Allow your block and parry to affect attacks made against the Cover target when within x feet (or, these attacks literally attack you instead), and cause Cover to use the greater defense and magic defense of either you or the target. This allows Covered attacks to proc shield swipe. Give DRK some new form of defensive utility that can better allow its MT uses when forced out of the MT position, improving his arsenal's effective uptime. This could be something like changing Soul Survivor to be ally-targetable and duplicate your parry chance, parry procs, and your self-healing done onto the ally, while similarly benefiting from the ally's parry procs. Should either die, the other receives 20% HP, MP, and TP.

• PLD and DRK both have parts of their arsenals unaffected by what should be universal stats (e.g. Skill Speed).

  Merge Skill Speed and Spell Speed. Done.

• Both PLD and DRK seemingly suffer from counter-synergy.

  However, that could theoretically just be a form of balance, increasing the individual strength of certain toolkit components while keeping the combined strength at more reasonable levels. I suspect that is the case, and, if so, we just need to see that reasoning. If not, then Paladins should be able to block while casting, Blood Price should trigger mana gains for each attack attempted against the Dark Knight, therefore giving mana regardless of whether those attacks are dodged.

• Though PLDs abilities are all set to deal a theoretical 10 single-target potency per second, Spirits Within's output varies in a way that doesn't quite seem to match the design philosophy of the other tanks, or XIV tanks generally.

  Have Spirits Within heal for twice as much potency as was lost to the attack itself. At 10% HP, it'd deal 30 potency, but heal for 540. The portion healed is dependent only on AP, not on damage dealt.

• Tempered Will is lackluster most of the time.

  Drop the CD to 2 minutes and give it immunity to knockbacks, draw-in, and interruption. While Shelltron would seem the go-to ability to ensure your next cast goes off without a hitch, casting is actually instead the easiest way to ensure that a Shelltron goes off on exactly the attack you want it to, since it prevents all blocks, dodges, and parries during the cast. This would provide potentially use for Tempered Will even in fights that have no knockbacks or draw-ins, just as Plunge and Holmgang already enjoy.

That's about it, in my opinion. I do think there's something off about DRK evasion, but I think that's an issue for changes to undermechanics (e.g. adding percentile dodges) as to make it useful in raids as well, rather than a reason to remove it entirely. I still want to see a larger MP component to PLDs, and for Shadowskin and Shadow Wall to more unique, but I don't think either of those areas of change are especially necessary. I certainly do want to change Clemency to a CD, nor change Dark Passenger to a silence. I don't know what you were thinking when it comes to Flash and Circle of Scorn, since you've mostly just flipped the two, and traded out the one unique bit to PLD AoE rather than making it more useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhaja

I'm not feeling the oGCD vibe for PLD/DRK because the damage reduction is instantly applied, versus stronger incoming heals. What I feel like needs to be a change is Sword Oath and Shield Oath need to be on the same button, and be an automatic switch, or to a slight extreme make Sword Oath a constant passive, so your only giving up one GCD instead of two when swapping stances.

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You can set this up with a simple macro like

/micon "Whatever"
/ac "Sword Oath" <me>
/ac "Shield Oath" <me>

Granted, they *are* on the GCD so you run into the queuing issue, but you shouldn't be switching so frequently that this is even a percentage point DPS loss. You can also just activate Shield/Sword Oath while the other one is on and it will automatically drop your active Oath for the new one.

Shield Oath and Grit can't be oGCD simply because they are a 20% damage reduction cooldown with no recast timer.
Warrior Defiance can be an oGCD because it is not a damage reduction cooldown. Inner Beast on the other hand is, and is a GCD.

Sword Oath has to be an oGCD, to put it on pair with Darkside and Deliverance.