There are a lot of things in this game where there is a right and wrong way to do them: stats, cross class abilities, etc. But, those are issues of balance, not design. So, they aren't what I want to talk about.
The false choice I want to bring up is job crystals. Why are these, being designed to be essential to high level play, optional? Why have this choice, when one answer is abjectly wrong? All it does is lead to frustration for people when they get matched with a level 55 Lancer.
A choice with a wrong answer is not a choice at all.
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10-09-2016, 01:23 AMdragonseth07A choice with a wrong answer is not a choice at all.
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10-09-2016, 01:30 AMGreedaloxFunny you should bring this up, because every game ever has not been perfectly balanced, and therefore there was a right and a wrong answer by your standard. I want exciting stats, but I also have to realize that there will be a BiS for every class the day after they are introduced.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonseth07
Having said that and your remark on job crystals, it's the illusion of choice that makes players happy- no matter how obvious the right way is. We all liked doing our job quests and getting the crystal to equip. Whether or not it does anything is a whole different beast. -
10-09-2016, 01:31 AMLaeruneYep, I rememebr back during the BETA where the plan was to have Job and Class be used in different content/situations, but something changed and Jobs, became a major improvement over classes. Yoshi-P, himself wants get rid of classes, but they have no clue on how to do it. This is one of the reasons why new Jobs do not have classes and why future Jobs will not have classes aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonseth07
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10-09-2016, 01:32 AMTam_Hawkins
Originally it was planned for them to be optionall, Jobs for high specialisation and classes for a more diverse build. I think in the beginning on 2.x it was valid for Marauders to not use the jobcrystal as that only gave them tanking skills and it was not usefull when offtanking so having more cross class skills was better.
But right now it really does not seem to have any purpose. -
10-09-2016, 01:34 AMAlexandros_IX
I am glad they did away with them though. Not only because they're so pointless now, but because I did not like being forced to level up to 15 in a class I have no interest in just to further my own class's skillset.
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10-09-2016, 01:41 AMdragonseth07I mean, you still need to level those other classes for cross-class abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandros_IX
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10-09-2016, 01:51 AMMysteltainYeah, back in early 2.x MRD was good for OTing certain fights, and they were absurdly good in Frontlines, along with ARC if I remember correctly. I ran GLD in early Frontlines, as well, since I could slap on B4B, Raging Strikes, etc. for pretty good burst DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam_Hawkins
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10-09-2016, 02:00 AMCaptainLagbeard
As annoying as dealing with Classes over Jobs is, I'd rather have more classes as they could potentially be split into multiple jobs, like ACN goes to SMN and SCH, which might allow for more Jobs to be added at once...
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10-09-2016, 03:37 AMCinnoSadly they wont ever do this again... Yoshi has stated that doing it to arcanist was a mistake that they would fix if they could..Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard
it essentially boils down to him not liking the fact that Summoner has so many support spells (raise, pysick) and Scholor has so many offensive spells (they have most of the DoT's that summoner has.) Cause you know.. god forbid any classes in this game be versatile. -
10-09-2016, 03:39 AMDaemiusThey definitely need to get rid of classes eventually. The game is going to continue to get clunkier as more xpacs while that antiquated system is still around. They're going to have to rework the whole system IMO like they did with EQ2 and getting rid of the two levels of sub classes you had to go through to get to your main class. I imagine at some point all of the 2.x stuff will be revamped like Cataclysm did with WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laerune
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10-09-2016, 03:45 AMAlistaire
Reminds me of the point in 2.x you could solo heal garuda ex but it was highly recommended to do it with a conjurer so they could contribute more dps so you'd kill it before needing to deal with the adds+spiny.
Also about how at one point Yoshi had said he eventually wanted all classes to branch to 2 jobs like arcanist. -
10-09-2016, 03:45 AMCinnoAt this point, I feel like you're giving this dev team too much credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemius
Not that I have anything against this dev team, i love the work they've done, but THIS is just too much work for their small team. It'll gradually become more and more of a cluttered mess of workarounds, which will continue to get more messy, as long as the game lasts. -
10-09-2016, 03:51 AMDaemiusI should say I HOPE they rework things. I'll keep playing until the game goes dark but I feel for new people in the future if they don't eventually clean stuff up. I can only imagine if things remain the same that by 5.0 new folks will be completely overwhelmed with all the UI bloat and irrelevant game systems (lol elemental resistances).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinno
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10-09-2016, 03:55 AMGramul
Job crystals are something of an artifact from 1.x.
Back when we only had classes. Originally they where planning to expand the system so classes would be single player focused while Jobs would be multiplayer, but the idea ended up being abandoned. It's why the 3 latest jobs don't have classes at all. -
10-09-2016, 03:59 AMGreedaloxI think while the actual task of removing them at this point wouldn't be monumental in grandeur, the true difficulty would be not having public outcry for whatever arbitrary reason against its removal would be (Probably a time spent or something.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramul
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10-09-2016, 04:03 AMGramulWell, that and in game lore, quests and cut scenes needing to be totally reworked. Especially for Arcanists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedalox
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10-09-2016, 04:23 AMMugiawara
Class system needs to be removed or redone. it's honestly a mess right now.
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10-09-2016, 06:18 AMCaptainLagbeardI know they've said they won't do it... And if it's for those reasons, I do wonder why he wants to limit Jobs to a very small role, it doesn't exactly hurt the game to have some variation from just being pure DPS, Healer or Tank...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinno
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10-09-2016, 06:36 AMdragonseth07It's so that things like the Duty Finder work effectively. Characters within a role need to be interchangeable enough that you can't get screwed with the class combo you get.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard
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10-09-2016, 06:53 AMFelisClass System need more freedom in the cross class skills (like it was before the job system).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugiawara
And Job system need a nerf.
How the original plan to the job system was:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...print?p=138995Quote:
In practice, players will find the existing classes effective when playing solo or in certain party setups. Jobs, however, will shine in party situations where specific skill sets are demanded. Now, you didn’t hear this from me, but there are also rumors circulating that quests for obtaining job-exclusive equipment are also in the pipes.
We at the development team are currently hard at work on the job system, and expect to have details to share with you soon.