[3.4 Spoilers] Hydaelen And The Warriors Of Darkness

There are spoilers below. If you read beyond this point, it's your fault.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Some revelations first:

- The 13th world was ruined by the darkness and became The Void.

- The First (the world closest to The Source) is being consumed by Light, but it has not been completely destroyed by it.

- The Warriors of Darkness appear to be group of adventurers that we see in the opening cinematic. However, their journey has been completed. They won their battle against The Ascians, but this victory doomed their world to being erased by purifying light.

- The First is being consumed by light. Six other worlds are being consumed by darkness, and the 13th world has already been completely been consumed which has resulted in the creation of The Void. ("Seven times they have succeeded...")

- This means that there are five other worlds that still remain safe for the time being.

- The world that FFXIV takes place in is The Source world. This means that in our world, the people who became The Warriors of Light in The First, are ordinary people who never became the WoL of the prime world. This would explain why we've never seen the Highlander or his party despite the cinematic showing his path was similar to our Warrior of Light.

- A Warrior of Light cannot harm Hydaelen or her Word. While the Warriors of Light aren't tempered in to worshiping her as an infallible deity, they are physically incapable of striking out against the Mother Crystal or her emissary. This reveals that the WoL are, for the lack of a better term, independent thralls to her will.

Now, given what we know about the Warriors of Darkness, there is one part of their story that doesn't make any sense. The Warrior of Darkness, Arbert, stated that they did everything they were told, and it was from this instruction that they inadvertently doomed their world. However, when Minfilia is confronted with this revelation, she claims that Hydaelen already knows but that she doesn't want The First to be consumed by light. So, she sends Minfilia with the Warriors of Darkness back to The First to hold back the tide of all-consuming light.

So, here's my problem with this plan: Hydaelen, who seems to suddenly be so concerned with The First, would have gladly allowed The Warriors of Darkness and their world be destroyed had Urianger not forced her to act. The Ascians, on the other hand, have explicitly stated that they strive for balance between Light and Dark. They've even gone so far as to mention that their master, who is most likely Zodiark, has called them to action to bring about this balance by any means necessary.

This really bothers me, and I sympathize with Arbert's frustration, that Hydaelen would have remained silent about what was happening. Then, when pressed about what was going on, she just shows up and is like: "Oh, uh...yeah! I totally heard your prayers. I'll get right on to fixing that, so let's head on back to your world. Let's all ignore the fact that this all happened because of something I did. Yeah, balance, we need that or something."

I mean, I'm glad that Urianger didn't really betray us, but why any of them were still considering blindly following Hydaelen after everything they learned is strange. Oh, but at least she gave us back Tupsimati with no real explanation as to what we were supposed to do with it besides keep it safe and hope we never have to use it.

TL;DR: We learned a lot about the other worlds and what happened to them, but Hydaelen's whole "I knew I was having you accidentally destroy your world, but I'll totally stop it from happening now that you've called out my bullshit." explanation at the end just left me confused and frustrated with the story at this point.

I don't think Hydaelyn could hear them. Once Minfillia became The Word, the only time we could directly communicate with her was while in the lifestream, either via our crystals or the Antitower.

Minfillia also described Hydaelyn partaking the all consuming light as a boon, and that she now has the power to have Minfillia act separately an emissary.

I think Hydaelyn pulled back the Light into herself, giving her back a huge chunk of her power, thus being able to let go of Minfillia as her direct mouthpiece. Since Minfillia is still intune with Hydaelyn, she's sending her to the first world to help directly on the ground in her stead, as a goodwill gesture.

For better or worse, deities don't follow the same system of morality mortals do. For all we know it was a part of Hydaelyn's divine plan to do that.

Deities are fallible, in some mythologies, and that seems to be the case with Hydaelyn. Also while Hydaelyn does seem to be able to hear prayers, with Zodiark's growing power she's been helpless to intervene outside of the Blessing of Light passively empowering us. Even Minfilia's prayers weren't answered when she asked for a little help finishing off Nabriales, and unless we're using our Crystals as batteries for chats we've barely been able to talk to Hydaelyn since our Blessing was sealed by Midgardsormr.

It rankles a fair bit, to be sure.

Arbert: "Our world is being destroyed and consumed by Light, all because we did what you told us to!"

Not-Minfilia: "Uhh... my bad, I guess, or something? Whatever. Since you wormed your way here and are pressing me about it, I guess I'll go fix it..."

Arbert: "Take us with you!"

Not-Minfilia: "Fine... oh and hey, guys? I don't know when I'll be back, if ever. So if you ever had any hope of seeing me again, it's all but lost."

Temujin: "Don't run away from living! That's an order! ..."

... comedy aside, I've not blindly followed Hydaelyn since the whole "called up Minfilia so she could make her Hydaelyn's avatar" shenanigans. Preserving the world also means preserving Hydaelyn, so no matter what we do that'll be an indirect consequence of our actions.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

- A Warrior of Light cannot harm Hydaelen or her Word. While the Warriors of Light aren't tempered in to worshiping her as an infallible deity, they are physically incapable of striking out against the Mother Crystal or her emissary. This reveals that the WoL are, for the lack of a better term, independent thralls to her will.

---

I'm not sure I agree with the assertion that they're "physically incapable of striking out against the Mother Crystal or her emissary". The warrior of darkness attempts to strike out against the emissary and she has to actually do something to stop his attack. It's not like he just becomes incapable of continuing the swing without any intervention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

So, here's my problem with this plan: Hydaelen, who seems to suddenly be so concerned with The First, would have gladly allowed The Warriors of Darkness and their world be destroyed had Urianger not forced her to act. The Ascians, on the other hand, have explicitly stated that they strive for balance between Light and Dark. They've even gone so far as to mention that their master, who is most likely Zodiark, has called them to action to bring about this balance by any means necessary.

This really bothers me, and I sympathize with Arbert's frustration, that Hydaelen would have remained silent about what was happening. Then, when pressed about what was going on, she just shows up and is like: "Oh, uh...yeah! I totally heard your prayers. I'll get right on to fixing that, so let's head on back to your world. Let's all ignore the fact that this all happened because of something I did. Yeah, balance, we need that or something."

TL;DR: We learned a lot about the other worlds and what happened to them, but Hydaelen's whole "I knew I was having you accidentally destroy your world, but I'll totally stop it from happening now that you've called out my bullshit." explanation at the end just left me confused and frustrated with the story at this point.

---

I think this is covered by what Minfilia and Urianger say:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Word of the Mother

"I will hie me to your world and there take unto myself the Light with riseth even now to drown it, as Darkness once did drown another."

"But for the boon you have granted her, She has grown strong enough to set me free, that I might serve as Her emissary.

Your suffering, your sacrifice, your supplications - She has heard all. We will not let the First fall to Light."

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urianger

"Full long did I search for a means to save [the First], concluding at the last that the answer lay in the power of blessed crystals. And thus did I labor to set Light against Dark.

Yet I knew from the beginning that this salvation would not come without sacrifice, for the instrument of the First's deliverance would of necessity be required to journey thither... there to remain, mayhap forever."

---

I think the idea is that Hydaelyn heard their prayers but couldn't do anything to save the First, because her direct influence is limited to the Source; she needed to create an emissary, in the form of the Word, that could go to the First and take in the Light.

Based on what The Word and Urianger say, I think the implication is that until the Warriors of Darkness and Light provided strength to Hydaelyn (through their "blessed crystals"), she wasn't strong enough to create an emissary that could make that journey.

What's interesting, though, is that Hydaelyn made it a point to save Krile from the destruction of the Isle of Val. Unless I'm misremembering. So with that in mind one has to question why she's playing favourites with someone like Krile but the Warriors of Darkness - who presumably surpassed even the Warrior of Light in terms of ridding their world of threats - were neglected and abandoned by her until they confronted her directly. It's definitely very shady.

My theory is that she doesn't really care about 'balance' at all beyond giving it lip service and is just as guilty as Zodiark where the power struggle between them is concerned. She exiled him way back when but to do that surely she must have tipped the balance in her favour somehow - especially since they're meant to be two sides of the same coin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

What's interesting, though, is that Hydaelyn made it a point to save Krile from the destruction of the Isle of Val. Unless I'm misremembering. So with that in mind one has to question why she's playing favourites with someone like Krile but the Warriors of Darkness - who presumably surpassed even the Warrior of Light in terms of ridding their world of threats - were neglected and abandoned by her until they confronted her directly. It's definitely very shady.

---

See my comments above, because I think that falls under the same umbrella.

Hydaelyn seems to be unable to directly intercede in events taking place on the echo worlds (including the First), instead needing to send an emissary to do so in her stead. She doesn't appear to be similarly limited when it comes to events that take place on our world, the Source, which is why she's able to save Krile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibi

I'm not sure I agree with the assertion that they're "physically incapable of striking out against the Mother Crystal or her emissary". The warrior of darkness attempts to strike out against the emissary and she has to actually do something to stop his attack. It's not like he just becomes incapable of continuing the swing without any intervention.

I think the idea is that Hydaelyn heard their prayers but couldn't do anything to save the First, because her direct influence is limited to the Source; she needed to create an emissary, in the form of the Word, that could go to the First and take in the Light.

Based on what The Word and Urianger say, I think the implication is that until the Warriors of Darkness and Light provided strength to Hydaelyn (through their "blessed crystals"), she wasn't strong enough to create an emissary that could make that journey.

---

This was my take away too. It wasn't that she wasn't willing to act but that she couldn't act. Certainly the current set up isn't ideal but frankly if this whole thing was just a plan for dominance the fact that the 13th became the void and frankly now is a threat to the source, doesn't work in her favour either.

Hydaelyn still has been consistently portrayed as overall benevolent. While it can be argued that what she did to Minfilia was an act of selfishness, Minfilia was still a willing participant in that role and considering Minfilia pretty much says at the end she promises to return, I think its safe to say she will.

I have a feeling that Hydaelyn's goal isn't simply the defeat of the Ascians. She is remarkably hands off with us considering we are her champions. Instead she encourages us to learn the truth ourselves and act accordingly. Her sole 'orders' have been stop the Ascians because they are bad and generally speaking this seems to be the case. Frankly at this point, regardless of her strength, Hydaelyn's arrangement is in ruins. If we assume at least Unukalhai is from another shard that is at least 2 dead shards, with at least 1 of them not part of the Ardor yet (the Thirteenth). Elidibus makes me think that perhaps the Void might actually be an issue with the Ardor since in his words it is of no use to Zodiark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ibi

I think the idea is that Hydaelyn heard their prayers but couldn't do anything to save the First, because her direct influence is limited to the Source; she needed to create an emissary, in the form of the Word, that could go to the First and take in the Light.

---

I could understand that reasoning if Arbert hadn't specifically stated that they had done everything they had been told to do. The only explanation I can think of that justifies this reasoning is that, around the same time Hydaelen stopped talking to our WoL, she stopped giving them orders. However, still acting on the last instructions they were given, they continued to destroy Primals and The Ascians until none were left on The First. Arbert does voice his frustration that she is just now claiming to answer their prayers, but there still hasn't really been any good reason as to why Hydaelen stopped talking in the first place aside from "she was weak."

As for Minfilia having to stop Arbert's attack, all she did was merely raise her hand. She didn't block his attack; she forcefully made him stop moving. Then she explained that "As The Ascians must act out the will of their master, Zodiark, so must the recipients of the Mother's gift do her will also." I'm paraphrasing, but that's generally what she said. Basically, she admits that, as a Warrior of Light, that you have the only choices you have are to either 1) do what she says or 2) do nothing at all. You can't lash out at her because, as you see with Arbert, the Warrior of Light would be physically incapable of attacking her.

It's kind of like being tempered, but you're still in control 99% of the time. She just gets that 1% as a fail safe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

So, here's my problem with this plan: Hydaelen, who seems to suddenly be so concerned with The First, would have gladly allowed The Warriors of Darkness and their world be destroyed had Urianger not forced her to act. The Ascians, on the other hand, have explicitly stated that they strive for balance between Light and Dark. They've even gone so far as to mention that their master, who is most likely Zodiark, has called them to action to bring about this balance by any means necessary.

---

I need to correct you on something here. It is mostly Elidibus who cares about balance. The other three Ascians in edgelord black robes (Lahabrea, Nabriales, Igeyorhm) were pretty much all "DARKNESS DARKNESS DARKNESS DARKITY DARKNESS DARKY DARK!!!!11!" until their destruction. Big distinction there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

I need to correct you on something here. It is mostly Elidibus who cares about balance. The other three Ascians in edgelord black robes (Lahabrea, Nabriales, Igeyorhm) were pretty much all "DARKNESS DARKNESS DARKNESS DARKITY DARKNESS DARKY DARK!!!!11!" until their destruction. Big distinction there.

---

True, but all of The Ascians besides Elidibus seem to be oblivious to what Zodiark's intentions are at the moment. Considering that the WoD mentioned that Zodiark seemed to have nothing to do with The Void, it seems that Elidibus is probably using the other Ascians as pawns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I could understand that reasoning if Arbert hadn't specifically stated that they had done everything they had been told to do.

---

I went back over the Warrior of Darkness exposition cut scenes: post-Xelphatol, the chat with Urianger, and the ones before and after the fight with the Warriors of Darkness. The only instance I could find where he mentions being told/asked/bid to do anything doesn't refer to Hydaelyn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warrior of Darkness

We were just adventurers trying to make our way. An odd job here, a favor there - we never aspired to be Warriors of Light.

But word of our deeds spread, and soon people were calling us heroes. They placed their hopes and dreams on our shoulders and bid us fight for all that was good and right.

We fought and we fought and we fought... until there was no one left to fight. We won... and now our world is being erased from existence.

We did everything right, everything that was asked of us, and still- still it came to this!

---

It's the people who were calling them heroes that were doing the asking.

That said, even if we make the (totally reasonable) assumption that Hydaelyn was talking to the Warriors of Darkness at some point, I don't recall any point in our interactions with her that she's provided any explicit instructions as to what we should be doing, beyond "See. Hear. Think." Our actual plans of action have generally come from the Scions.

We can agree to disagree on the other point, we simply see it differently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

I could understand that reasoning if Arbert hadn't specifically stated that they had done everything they had been told to do. The only explanation I can think of that justifies this reasoning is that, around the same time Hydaelen stopped talking to our WoL, she stopped giving them orders. However, still acting on the last instructions they were given, they continued to destroy Primals and The Ascians until none were left on The First. Arbert does voice his frustration that she is just now claiming to answer their prayers, but there still hasn't really been any good reason as to why Hydaelen stopped talking in the first place aside from "she was weak."

---

He never says that Hydaelen is the one who told them to do things. Like us they where adventurers who did work for lots of people. For that matter it's not like NOT killing Primals or allowing the Ascians to cause a Calamity would have a good effect on their world. And how is being physically unable to talk to people a bad reason for not talking to them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn

As for Minfilia having to stop Arbert's attack, all she did was merely raise her hand. She didn't block his attack; she forcefully made him stop moving. Then she explained that "As The Ascians must act out the will of their master, Zodiark, so must the recipients of the Mother's gift do her will also." I'm paraphrasing, but that's generally what she said. Basically, she admits that, as a Warrior of Light, that you have the only choices you have are to either 1) do what she says or 2) do nothing at all. You can't lash out at her because, as you see with Arbert, the Warrior of Light would be physically incapable of attacking her.

---

Uh, no she pretty obviously formed a barrier between them. He was just trying to force his way through it. And what she said was the she and Zodiark require servants in order to effect the world, not that their servants have no choice but to follow her will.

It's kind of like being tempered, but you're still in control 99% of the time. She just gets that 1% as a fail safe.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure about the dialogue intricacies in other languages, but The Word described her transformation from Minifillia as an offering during her prayers while floating along the lifestream. Basically, Minfillia was completely willing to martyr herself, even if it's painful for the rest of us to watch and difficult to understand. Mini's devotion is above and beyond the call.


My only curiosity now is why the WoD, Ysayle, and ourselves have crystals of light, but Krile and Minfillia apparently don't. If it's a combatant thing, it doesn't explain Ysayle's being given to her as a young girl, and Krile's shown she's willing to fight when needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ametrine

My only curiosity now is why the WoD, Ysayle, and ourselves have crystals of light, but Krile and Minfillia apparently don't. If it's a combatant thing, it doesn't explain Ysayle's being given to her as a young girl, and Krile's shown she's willing to fight when needed.

---

The Echo is a precondition, but you're right in that it has never been clear how any one individual qualifies for a crystal of light.

I was rewatching the cutscene of the WoL's very first vision of the Mother Crystal, to confirm that the WoL did in fact see the shards of Hydaelyn during that encounter. Only that, at the time, he didn't know the significance of what he saw.

And during that cutscene, Hydaelyn said: "The power to banish the Darkness dwelleth in the Crystals of Light. Journey forth and lay claim to them. By thy deeds shall the Crystals reveal themselves to thee."

So, it seems that the crystals of light aren't given so much as they are earned. Hydaelyn didn't say, however, that the deeds must involve combat, so in all likelihood, other kinds of selfless actions would also count. Just what those actions may be, though, appears to be anyone's guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ametrine

I'm not sure about the dialogue intricacies in other languages, but The Word described her transformation from Minifillia as an offering during her prayers while floating along the lifestream. Basically, Minfillia was completely willing to martyr herself, even if it's painful for the rest of us to watch and difficult to understand. Mini's devotion is above and beyond the call.

---

We don't know what happened in between the 2.55 ending and meeting The Word in 3.2, but seeing as the Warriors of Darkness were able to go to the aetherial sea and from there to our world by dying, it's entirely possible that Minfilia stayed behind aiming either to have the tunnel collapse on her (from Y'shtola's spell) or run into the line of fire of the Brass Blades or something. In other words, she did die, knowing that Hydaelyn would absorb her aether rather than it just dissipating into the lifestream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RahfaelFavinco

We don't know what happened in between the 2.55 ending and meeting The Word in 3.2, but seeing as the Warriors of Darkness were able to go to the aetherial sea and from there to our world by dying, it's entirely possible that Minfilia stayed behind aiming either to have the tunnel collapse on her (from Y'shtola's spell) or run into the line of fire of the Brass Blades or something. In other words, she did die, knowing that Hydaelyn would absorb her aether rather than it just dissipating into the lifestream.

---

That's not what The Word said happened.

According to her recount, Minfillia was swept up by Y'shtola's spell into the lifestream, and that Hydaelyn told her to run back to do that.

Basically, Minfillia was stuck in the same situation as Y'shtola was after the spell. Note they both have the oddly solid eyes now.