I know you are maybe thinking "not again a Dragoon discussion thread". And i dont want to start a new discussion, wether DRG would be cool with or without a Wyvern.
Everyone is talking about Yoshida should make something "new" with keeping the DRG to that what he was used to be in "traditional". But what about developing a completely new controlling system when it comes to wyvern or pets in overall?
And we all know about it, the petsystem in FF11 from 2003 is really too old fashioned and needs a complete overwork.
I thought about giving the DRG/BST in FFXIV (if he would have one):
- direct control about the wyvern/pet (attack, rest, aggressive, passive, chose which one he attacks)
- let the drg give the option to equip the wyvern with different armory (chest and helmet)
- giving the pet own skills (bite, dragon claw, healing/attacking breath).. in combination with yours -> skill combo
- give the drg a "Health regen" to their pet
- integrate them more into the casters own abillities
- (transfer pain) a trait/skill which transfers a percantage of damage done against you to your pet
- (sacrifice) your pet to receive health and a short stat buff (receiving dragons/beasts strengh e.g.)
- group heals and buffs do effect the pet
- pet's LP bar is shown in the party menu (subordinated)
- give the drg/bst a small extra skill bar for the pet's skills for directly controlling it (the 2.0. UI makes that possible)
- lowering the time to recall your pet back (in comparison to FFXI)
to compansate this it isnt a real instant "call". after the drg/bst uses the "whistle" to call it. the wyvern/beast takes about 15 secs to fly/get back to his owner.
and its not that long, that the BST/DRG is totally useless till the end of battle.
they could combine MUCH more the skill system with that of a wyvern/pet... more like that you can do a WS combo on your own.. and much more like only letting the wyvern to perform a breath attack. there could be so much more.
the wyvern system in FFXI is old.. and would need a completely new overwork.
that you can DIRECTLY CONTROL the wyvern and his attacks.. maybe let him have his own skill attacks besides breath attack. combine it with your own skill attacks.
and drg would be all in all a really damage dealing machine. in other MMorpgs it does work also (see hunter, warlock in wow.. and many other classes in other mmorpgs. it does work and it can. especially with a new system). balancing petclasses isnt easy.. because they are complex and not easy to play as well.. and for me thats where the fun starts.
you're talking about that yoshida should try something "new" refering to the traditional Dragoon style.. well a completely new Wyvern system.. not at all like we've seen in FF11, would be really somethin new.
again i just dont want to start that discussion again... just want to know what you're thinking about that? i mean that "direct control" could also be implemented into the beastmasters and summoner job as well.
that would be interesting also.
what do you think? you can also tell your suggestions about other upcoming petclasses like BST and Summoner, what do you think would be the best to implement them? my example was almost about Drg first.
What a Wyvern Dragoon/BST/SMN system could look like
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11-12-2011, 09:00 AMTonkraWhat a modern Wyvern Dragoon/BST/SMN pet-system could look like in FFXIV
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11-12-2011, 10:52 AMReliquia
I think the idea sounds promising, with some added work and pounding of ideas I could easily see this as a much better approach than the FFXI one. For the drg I think that it is a good idea to have the wyvern as a follower rather than a pt member, because that's one potential spot that could be taken by another class/job.
Btw I love the idea of wyvern customization, like for instance you named the armor. -
11-12-2011, 12:02 PMChiefCurrahee
Ideas are good for a pet class, but dragoons in the history of Final Fantasy have only been a pet class in 1 installment.
Keep dragoon pet free.
Summoners, Beast Masters and Puppeteers should be of the pet variety. -
11-12-2011, 12:13 PMAnonymooseI'm glad some people understand the distinction. I keep seeing, "But dragoons have hung out with dragons forever! Fought with them, too!" Yeahthatsgreat, but they weren't a PET CLASS. As in the game mechanic CLASS that uses a PET... and we'd like that pet free dragoon BACK because XI's was awkward as hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee
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11-12-2011, 02:59 PMZantetsuken
Interesting ideas.. but I got sidetracked while reading it.
BST should be our only true pet job. SMN should have a different design from FFXI (maybe pet~ish, but I'd like to see something a bit more.. grand), and DRG should not have a pet wyvern.
But yeah, interesting ideas. -
11-12-2011, 03:37 PMUnsayMoon
So basically you want a WoW hunter to be DRG...
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11-12-2011, 06:22 PMTonkraQuote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCurrahee
well i just dont want to start that discussion again but: because those guys in FFIV,FFIX etc had no wyverns doesnt mean that the one in FFXIV shouldnt have one.. it is FFXIV and not FFIV. and because the system in FF11 was awful it should not be the same in FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymoose
it could be completely different.
thats what my suggestions are made for. i mean beastmaster was really awful because of these.
not really, but a direct control over the pet. and thats just not only in WoW ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsayMoon
for Beastmaster i also would like to see:
- a permanent charm
- the option to "save" up to 5 beasts to summon them again wherever he is
(like the blumage who could only save an amount of blu spells)
- if he wants to charm monsters higher than him its not a constant charm and it can fail from time to time.
- axe typical abillities on his own.
- abillities that buff him on his own (wildness, beserk or whatever) to push his damage but lowering defense
- petbuffs and health reggen
besides the other changes i've written above. to push the beastmaster more into a damage class -
11-12-2011, 09:13 PMDalmore
Play Hunter mutch? o.0
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11-12-2011, 09:43 PMTonkrai play MMorpgs since 2000 and it isnt only in wow like that... "transfer pain", an abillity where a dmg amount done to the caster is transfered upon the pet, is for example an abillity from the Lineage II summoner, and yes it has been very before WoW... and you could directly control your pet as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalmore
wow didnt invent that..
would be cool to say something about the system itself and not destructive commentarys like "played much wow hunter?" huh huh....no i havent played WoW actively... so you're knowing about that fact now kk?
and i think its better to put in that modern system to FFXIV because the old pet system in FF11 was way too old fashioned and not complex enough.
like they are modernizing the UI from FFXIV now to the one we saw in the 2.0. screenshot. it needs changes. drastic changes.
and its not about copying something.. its about comfort, and not via macros. -
11-12-2011, 09:48 PMEngineer
I think it would be best to keep dragoon the traditional way with no pet.
Companions will be introduced into the game in the the form of chocobos and such. I think it would be pretty cool if Dragoon can have a companion wyvern that takes up one party slot. This way everyone is happy.
+Dragoon is not a pet class and remains the traditional job.
+The wyvern isn't tied to the class, its a exclusive dragoon companion that takes up 1 party slot. -
11-12-2011, 09:55 PMTonkrawhich part ofQuote:
Originally Posted by Engineer
"And i dont want to start a new discussion, wether DRG would be cool with or without a Wyvern.
Everyone is talking about Yoshida should make something "new" with keeping the DRG to that what he was used to be in "traditional". But what about developing a completely new controlling system when it comes to wyvern or pets in overall? "
you didnt understand?
even the headline says DRG/BST/SMN there is an other flaming thread about that, keeping drg to traditional. -
11-12-2011, 10:25 PMHiirNoivl
They're already implementing a system like that with Chocobo participation fights. I'm not sure if it extends to other mounts (I view DRG wyvern as a mount) or pets. BST would be weird unless you can directly control the mob, heal the mob etc. Most of the suggestions in your post make sense...
I think what will make or break the system will be the UI. -
11-12-2011, 10:28 PMEngineerLol I did understand. Your idea will work well if the wyvern was a companion, because chocobos(companions) will have the ability to be customized. If its tied to the job I think it would have balance issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
Also, if you don't want people to discuss if dragoon should have a pet or not, don't bring up "Dragoon" in a pet thread. Just saying. -
11-12-2011, 11:40 PMChiefCurrahee
Characters that portrayed the Dragoon arch type:
Ricard Highwind FFII
Lancer class in FFIII (spears and jumps)
Kain Highwind FFIV
Cid Highwind FFVII
Ward Zabac FFVIII (not called a dragoon but uses harpoons and limitbreak is a "jump")
Freya Crescent FFIX
Kimahri Ronso FFX
None of these had a pet attached to them.
Why should Dragoon in FFXIV? -
11-13-2011, 01:29 AMgrandmyes this is final fantasy 14, not final fantasy 11, i am so sick of this dragoon/dragon issue. it been stated so many times more ppl don't want a pet. ppl have tryed to say. what if we keep dragoons power and get a pet? NO! we don't want a pet. what if we have two dragoons, one with a pet, one without? NO! we don't want dragoon to have a pet. what if we redesign the pet to work better? your just not getting it we don't want a pet with the dragoon. we want a pet with a pet class, we want a spear and a jump with our dragoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonkra
so seems as every1 has so many ideas of how to get dragoon and get a pet. i have a idea of my own. scrap dragoon for round one jobs. and make beastmaster come first.