The Influence of Levels on Actions and Cross Class Skills

"As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class."

I have one very important question:

Does this mean that if I am a rank 50 LNC using Concussive Blow from my only R16 PGL that the effectiveness would be that of a rank 50? Or that of a R16 PGL?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Originally Posted by WiiSam

"As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class."

I have one very important question:

Does this mean that if I am a rank 50 LNC using Concussive Blow from my only R16 PGL that the effectiveness would be that of a rank 50? Or that of a R16 PGL?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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edit
i see what you mean, yeah i wonder that too.
according to the english language, it sounds that way!

Pretty sure they said cross class skills will b lowered. I will give the letter another look tho.


Edit: Ok I did not see it but im 100% sure cross class skill will scale down kinda like we have now.

From reading the post, it would seem that whether you gained an ability from your current class or from another class will no longer have any effect on that ability. This does not mean that you can use cross-classed abilities at full strength. Instead, a class will gain traits which enhance their use of their own abilities, such as PUG gaining a trait that says, "Hand to Hand Damage Increased." Conjurer could gain a trait that Increases Healing Magic Potency (or more likely, a few traits with this effect, throughout their leveling).

In short, ability potency and recast will no longer vary based on the class equipping them. Instead, you will receive traits that give you bonuses for using abilities from your currently equipped class.

"For instance, a level 1 pugilist will be able to set a level 30 gladiator action. However, the effectiveness of that action will be scaled down accordingly."
No mentioning of scaling up yet. Wouldn't make sense though to let abilities scale up beyond the point of the respective class level.

skill from other classes will still have the same nerf as before. Plus that, now we have an additional nerf if equipping skills with optimal level upper the current level of the class

While there is no direct mention of eliminating the current cross-classing nerf, it seems likely that it would be abolished in favor of same-class buffs, which are mentioned below.

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Players will no longer be bound by level restrictions when setting actions from other classes.
For instance, a level 1 pugilist will be able to set a level 30 gladiator action. However, the effectiveness of that action will be scaled down accordingly.

All traits will be made class-exclusive.
Adjustments will be made so that certain actions will only unleash their full potential when paired with traits belonging to the same class.

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They could accomplish the same result either way, but the new system seems to have a goal of reducing complexity. Keeping the cross-class nerf seems unnecessarily complex in the face of the adjustments quoted above.

more likely the dmg will be as now and expect to be lesser in 1.20 when the dmg will be boost with trail

are they getting rid of cure 1 2 3 in favor aslo. if so does that mean that a lvl 50 dow can get cure and then use it at lvl 50 power.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

are they getting rid of cure 1 2 3 in favor aslo. if so does that mean that a lvl 50 dow can get cure and then use it at lvl 50 power.

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^ This would be fantastic to have cleared up.

[QUOTE=syntaxlies;442031]does that mean that a lvl 50 dow can get cure and then use it at lvl 50 power.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I am asking guys, let us not confuse the topic.

If I am a lvl 50 GLA and I have a lvl 1 Conjurer, that means I have cure right? Does that mean that my cure is lvl 50 potency on gla?

We are not questioning whether using cross class skills are nerfed or not. For example, i don't care if a R50 gla has a lesser cure than a R50 CON, that should be obvious. But what i am asking is if i am a R50 GLA then does it matter if my CON is R1 or R10 or R20 or whatever to increase its potency on the GLA!

[QUOTE=WiiSam;442114]

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

does that mean that a lvl 50 dow can get cure and then use it at lvl 50 power.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I am asking guys, let us not confuse the topic.

If I am a lvl 50 GLA and I have a lvl 1 Conjurer, that means I have cure right? Does that mean that my cure is lvl 50 potency on gla?

We are not questioning whether using cross class skills are nerfed or not. For example, i don't care if a R50 gla has a lesser cure than a R50 CON, that should be obvious. But what i am asking is if i am a R50 GLA then does it matter if my CON is R1 or R10 or R20 or whatever to increase its potency on the GLA!

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given the info so far id say the cure will scale up. i think ill make a thread just on cure to see if it gets any dev attention

The answer to the cure question is rather obvious I would think. There will not be tiered spells. Each spell will scale to the level of the caster. Yes, a lvl 50 DOW would be able to use cure at lvl 50 power. They would, however, be missing out on the Conjurer's base stats and traits which would increase the potency of the cure. In summary, a DoW will not be casting at anywhere near the strength of a mage. The bonus to them comes from the fact that they wouldn't have to level Conjurer all the way to 48 to get a decent cure spell.

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Originally Posted by TinnySnips

The answer to the cure question is rather obvious I would think. There will not be tiered spells. Each spell will scale to the level of the caster. Yes, a lvl 50 DOW would be able to use cure at lvl 50 power. They would, however, be missing out on the Conjurer's base stats and traits which would increase the potency of the cure. In summary, a DoW will not be casting at anywhere near the strength of a mage. The bonus to them comes from the fact that they wouldn't have to level Conjurer all the way to 48 to get a decent cure spell.

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im sorry but you dont have the answer to the question, you are making an assumption based on the information provided. You have come to the same conclusion as i have but i wouldn't state mine as fact since i don't know what the devs have planned

I think TinnySnips has the right idea. They seem to be eliminating spells like "Cure 2" and "Doomspike 2." Instead, the abilities "Cure" and "Doomspike" will become stronger on their own as you level up.

I don't believe, however, that that means that at level 50 casting "Cure" will be like casting "Cure 3." It will still be "Cure," unless you have the following:

A Conjurer's base stats, such as MND, which directly modify the potency of said spell, and a Conjurer's passive traits, such "Increases Potency of Healing Magic."

You'll have higher MND than you did atlevel 1, so the cure will be stronger, but it won't be as strong as if you were a Conjurer of the same level.

This is all speculation, of course. But that's how I see it working.

Speculatively, of course, but I would think ability/spell potency will be determined by main class.

The caveat being that with potency so too comes cost. A rank 50 DoW will have the MP Pools to sustain but a few casts before they're out of juice.

DoW abilities will have the same sort of safeguard as they mentioned that abilities will be enhanced by class-specific traits.

It sounds like a simple and effective means of making everyone not have to level jobs to insane levels.

As a Gladiator, instead of leveling up to 40something for Cure III, I have just "Cure" learned. Now I have the means to heal myself (in proportion to my level) without needing to level up CNJ to absurd heights that I otherwise wouldn't want to.

Or learning Defender at level 10 and using it with great effect without having to learn Defender II by leveling up MRD to 48.

Clearly I don't have the same amount of MND a CNJ would have, but the potency would be better without grinding a job I otherwise don't like playing.

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im sorry but you dont have the answer to the question, you are making an assumption based on the information provided. You have come to the same conclusion as i have but i wouldn't state mine as fact since i don't know what the devs have planned

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I don't have the answer to the question, the developers do. They posted the answer already. It is stated quite clearly in the text, but I will post the relevant bits here to show you that I'm not speculating.

Under Section 1. Class-Specific Actions

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Upper tiers of an action (such as Fire II and Fire III) will be abolished in favor of a system wherein potency and MP cost are scaled based on the player’s level.

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Under Section 4. Setting Actions and Traits

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All traits will be made class-exclusive.
Adjustments will be made so that certain actions will only unleash their full potential when paired with traits belonging to the same class.

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Under Section 5. The Influence of Levels on Actions

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As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class.

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Those 3 bits answer the question quite thoroughly, along with answering the followup question, "Won't that make a Gladiator Cure at level 50 just as good as a Conjurer Cure at level 50?" (The answer to which is a resounding no). Please refrain from accusing me of making assumptions. I will engage in speculation from time to time, but when I do, I will not state it as a fact. The only assumption that I have made is that the information contained in Triairy's post is accurate.

Well they already explain how it will scale down. I assume that in the case of equipping an ability from a lower leveled class onto your higher leveled class(IE lvl.4 Cure on your lvl.50 GLD), the ability will probably remain as if it were at lvl.4 effectiveness, being as how its base class(Conjurer) is still just at lvl.4. Were you to raise Conjurer to higher levels, Cure would eventually become more effective even after cross-classing.

Actually Tinny, well done. This does seem to cover it quite nicely. Thanks, I didn't put 2+2+2 together this time.

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Actually Tinny, well done. This does seem to cover it quite nicely. Thanks, I didn't put 2+2+2 together this time.

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Thank you. I think the confusion is coming from the fact that an example was provide for abilities scaling down, but there was no example provided for abilities scaling up.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

are they getting rid of cure 1 2 3 in favor aslo. if so does that mean that a lvl 50 dow can get cure and then use it at lvl 50 power.

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they can but not effective if you understand my point, and now we know that the MP of cure at lvl 50 will be same or more than cure III so DoW dont get much from it either as the amount isnt great and mp consume will be to much.

From what I see, the system still allow ppl to use w/e skill they want from other class but less effective as the new system will involve a lot with the trail. A exampler CNJ trail can give reduce mp on cure skill, more mp, more dmg on skill etc.

note: this is what I think about the system so it is not 100% accurate so please dont take it serious and flame me

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Originally Posted by TinnySnips

I don't have the answer to the question, the developers do. They posted the answer already. It is stated quite clearly in the text, but I will post the relevant bits here to show you that I'm not speculating.

Under Section 1. Class-Specific Actions


Under Section 4. Setting Actions and Traits


Under Section 5. The Influence of Levels on Actions


Those 3 bits answer the question quite thoroughly, along with answering the followup question, "Won't that make a Gladiator Cure at level 50 just as good as a Conjurer Cure at level 50?" (The answer to which is a resounding no). Please refrain from accusing me of making assumptions. I will engage in speculation from time to time, but when I do, I will not state it as a fact. The only assumption that I have made is that the information contained in Triairy's post is accurate.

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Tinny I understand what you're saying but you're directing your information at a completely different question. This is not the answer to my question, whether it be fact or assumption.

I never asked if my R50 GLAs Cure will be as effective as a R50 Cons Cure if my con is only lvl 4.

I am asking: Does it make a difference in potency for my Cure on my R50 GLA whether my Con is R4, 14, 24, 34, 44, or 50. This is the question. And nothing in the dev notes answers it.

This is the second time I am asking us to carefully analyze the question and not go off on tangents.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Well they already explain how it will scale down. I assume that in the case of equipping an ability from a lower leveled class onto your higher leveled class(IE lvl.4 Cure on your lvl.50 GLD), the ability will probably remain as if it were at lvl.4 effectiveness, being as how its base class(Conjurer) is still just at lvl.4. Were you to raise Conjurer to higher levels, Cure would eventually become more effective even after cross-classing.

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@Tinny, Malakhim seems to disagree with you. See how there are two sides now? The devs need to clarify which one is FACT.

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Originally Posted by WiiSam

I am asking: Does it make a difference in potency for my Cure on my R50 GLA whether my Con is R4, 14, 24, 34, 44, or 50. This is the question. And nothing in the dev notes answers it.

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As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class.

In my eyes that means you can simply learn the skill at the minimum level and set it on your level 50 and you'll cast it at the potency of THAT level 50 class. A Conjurer will probably be better at casting Cure than any other class at the same level due to it having higher MND and possibly traits enhancing healing potency. That and they will select materia to further enhance it.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class.

In my eyes that means you can simply learn the skill at the minimum level and set it on your level 50 and you'll cast it at the potency of THAT level 50 class. A Conjurer will probably be better at casting Cure than any other class at the same level due to it having higher MND and possibly traits enhancing healing potency. That and they will select materia to further enhance it.

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So...how do interpret Class specific Actions ? It def doesn't even say Cross-class!

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Originally Posted by WiiSam

So...how do interpret Class specific Actions ? It def doesn't even say Cross-class!

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WiiSam, first I would like to apologize for misunderstanding your original question. You are right in that I missed the point, and I instead answered another question. Having said that, the dev notes do indeed answer the question. Orophin's post, which you quoted, is the entire body of section 5 of the dev post. The title of the section is "The Influence of Levels on Actions." You ask how to interpret "Class specific Actions." The anwer is, it should be interpreted as a full reference to the title of Section 1, which is "Class-Specific Actions" (As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier...). "Class-specific actions" is merely a part of that prepositional phrase, telling you where this particular subject was previously mentioned. The actual subject of the sentence begins at the word upper. It goes on to explain that tiered spells will be eliminated. The next sentence answers your question. I am sorry if I over-explained that one, but I'm having a hard time seeing what is confusing about section 5.

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Originally Posted by WiiSam

Tinny I understand what you're saying but you're directing your information at a completely different question. This is not the answer to my question, whether it be fact or assumption.

I never asked if my R50 GLAs Cure will be as effective as a R50 Cons Cure if my con is only lvl 4.

I am asking: Does it make a difference in potency for my Cure on my R50 GLA whether my Con is R4, 14, 24, 34, 44, or 50. This is the question. And nothing in the dev notes answers it.

This is the second time I am asking us to carefully analyze the question and not go off on tangents.

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I think this question has been addressed in this topic, no?

I gather that the abilities would scale with your primary class despite the fact that your conj is at r10. I can't imagine making people having to rank every class to 50 in order to not be completely gimped. The difference would theoretically come from the traits and stats that are intrinsic to each class.

The way it sounds, if you have an L50 character but use an L10 skill from another class, it still has the potency of the L50. Level is the all-important factor, from what it looks like.

All traits will be made class-exclusive.
Adjustments will be made so that certain actions will only unleash their full potential when paired with traits belonging to the same class.

If it helps. My interpretation of this is that spells/abilities used cross class will be scaled down do to the lack of the class traits that are non-transferable to other classes.

thus in my understanding it would scale, but not to the same strength it would on the original class. I don't believe the spell itself is level related, you simply aquire the spell at said level.

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As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class.

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Does this quote not already answer the question? If you have a CNJ lvl 10, and you put Cure onto your GLA lvl 50, the spell will be based off of whatever your current class is.

So as long as you're on your GLA, the spell will be based off of the lvl of your GLA, not your CNJ.

Will suck if you only have access to one tier of Cure, with one MP cost.

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Originally Posted by HoolieWho

Will suck if you only have access to one tier of Cure, with one MP cost.

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As mentioned under 1. Class-specific Actions, upper tier actions will be abolished in favor of scaling the potency of the base action according to level. The effectiveness and MP cost of the action will be dependent upon the level of your current class.

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No worries there.

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Originally Posted by TinnySnips

I don't have the answer to the question, the developers do. They posted the answer already. It is stated quite clearly in the text, but I will post the relevant bits here to show you that I'm not speculating.

Those 3 bits answer the question quite thoroughly, along with answering the followup question, "Won't that make a Gladiator Cure at level 50 just as good as a Conjurer Cure at level 50?" (The answer to which is a resounding no). Please refrain from accusing me of making assumptions. I will engage in speculation from time to time, but when I do, I will not state it as a fact. The only assumption that I have made is that the information contained in Triairy's post is accurate.

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Good explanation. This is also a good balance between DoW and DoM too I think.

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Originally Posted by HoolieWho

Will suck if you only have access to one tier of Cure, with one MP cost.

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I agree with this. I don't think it will be the case though. I am taking a wait and see approach, but I think we will see a few curing options for Conjurer. Whether this is done through the use of a self-buff/nerf then cast, or different types of cure spells (like 1 normal cure spell and 1 weaker but instant cast cure spell).

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Originally Posted by TinnySnips

The answer to the cure question is rather obvious I would think. There will not be tiered spells. Each spell will scale to the level of the caster. Yes, a lvl 50 DOW would be able to use cure at lvl 50 power. They would, however, be missing out on the Conjurer's base stats and traits which would increase the potency of the cure. In summary, a DoW will not be casting at anywhere near the strength of a mage. The bonus to them comes from the fact that they wouldn't have to level Conjurer all the way to 48 to get a decent cure spell.

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is it rather obvious, cause they have just posted a low cure and high cure.