How is Ninja DPS endgame?

Just curious since I picked up Ninja as a new melee class. Not really sure how it compares to the other melees.

Also what's a quick way to get lancer to level 34? I really hate spending a lot of time on a class I don't plan on playing, plus I hate the need for cross class skills.

NIN has lowest individual damage ouput out of the three melee classes, yet in the end it's the most desirable, cause it can boost other's damage. it provides a nice way of hate management which could potentially lead to more damage. also it has access to goad, which in long fights or heavy aoe fights could result in... ya you guessed it... more damage. their own aoe potential got boosted in a recent patch as well.

for your lnc "issue". just do dungeons, leveling roulette, weekly challenge log and leves/fates while you wait on queues

To put it simply, Ninja got the lowest DPS of the 3 melee DPS jobs but it has the highest utility to the group as a whole. Monk is the highest DPS but lowest utility and Dragoon is right in the middle.

The best answer is: Really good if you learn the class well, and probably awful if you don't.

These threads pop up pretty frequently, yet the skill ceiling and general population skill is pretty far apart, so much so that any class being played well will do more damage than any other class being played at a mediocre level.

Take the following for instance: In A7S, the top Bard (ya know, that "support" class with generalized low DPS) does more damage than all but 7 Monks, the class regarded as having the highest DPS.
Hell, the top Paladin in A5S (lowest damage output tank) does more damage than 60% of all bards.
It's not unheard of for healers to do more damage than ninjas, and on the other hand, there's no reason a ninja couldn't be top DPS in a party.

So if you enjoy the class, then play it and play it well and you'll be just fine!

Personal DPS amongst melees it's MNK>DRG>NIN
Party DPS it's DRG>NIN>MNK
Utility it's NIN>MNK(Def)=DRG(Dps)

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

for your lnc "issue". just do dungeons, leveling roulette, weekly challenge log and leves/fates while you wait on queues

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I'd honestly say to just run Palace of the Dead for sub classes you don't care to spend time with. Leveling reward at low-mid levelis pretty decent and is at least more enjoyable than all those other methods combined.

Ninja has the highest effective dps (personal dps + raidwide dps) and, because of that is generally the most sought after melee job for raid groups. As far as its own damage goes, it has the most sustainable dps out of the three melee and has very high and quick burst damage to go with a now buffed aoe damage output. So, yes, its individual damage output in a static environment is lower than drg or mnk, but it's not a HUGE difference and it more than makes up for it with its utility and sustainability. Hope that helps! Oh, and it is the one melee that mixes in some magic damage with its ninjutsus.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

Personal DPS amongst melees it's MNK>DRG>NIN
Party DPS it's DRG>NIN>MNK
Utility it's NIN>MNK(Def)=DRG(Dps)

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Most people would disagree for the Utility section. Most people agree its Nin>DRG>MNK since DRK have Delirium, so its not an exclusive utility anymore. But of course, a monk is viable if you have no drk. but most people tend to always take a DRG in their group, and switch between mnk and nin.

even the dps order is discussable Mnks "can" be on top of the melee dds but to bring their numbers up they need a perfect condition without taking care of aoes or mechanics... i won't say Nin/Drg are stronger but they need less "paradise" for being effective.

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Originally Posted by Spayd

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True but there's also traited mantra which has its uses in progression and was one of the reasons it was MNK and not DRG that got world first A8S and with the upcoming changes to PLD there might be an increase of them in raid teams. Overall when planning for a team NIN is the close to must've while MNK and DRG is dependant on the requirement of the fight, a high DPS check = DRG, harsh HP checks or double boss like a1s = MNK. Therefore DRG = MNK when it comes to utility.

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Originally Posted by Neela

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Looking at the average on every boss fight MNK is ahead of DRG and NIN in all fights so it's definitely the top personal DPS.

average on a stone puppet? yeah you are right than...

All DPS classes 'even out' in one way or another. Each role (Tank/DPS/Healer) has ratios that dictate the strengths/weaknesses of the job to promote diversity and variations in playstyle. I know this might be radical but instead of thinking jobs as their own thing, imagine there's only 3 jobs HEALER DPS and TANK, and imagine each job is a 'skill tree'. For example for 'Healer', WHM has highest potency cures, but no real shields other than Stoneskin which is weak and single target outside of a pre-battle AoE shield which is disabled during combat, this focuses on Regens and strong potency cures. SCH is a 'skill tree' devoted to shields and pet heals and leans more towards DPS, AST is a mix of both depending on their stance, which cannot change mid-combat.

As for DPS, imagine each DPS job is a 'skill tree'. MNK has highest direct damage from their own skills but contribute little to boosting the damage of the rest of your party, NIN has a few skills that drastically increase damage of the entire raid while their own personal skills are rather weak. DRG has high potency skills, but not as high as MNK, but also has one or two skills that buff the raid, but not to the degree of NIN. All in all, the end result is the same. Whereas a MNK let's say does 1000DPS, but doesn't boost the party by anything, vs DRG which does 850 DPS but its skills raise everyone else's DPS by 20, and NIN say does 750 DPS but boosts everyone's DPS by say 40. (These are fictional numbers and not accurate but used to illustrate a point). The net result is more or less the same, but the amount of DPS boosted by DRG and NIN is a bit difficult to separate and tie back into the DRG or NIN and they don't often get 'credit' for it, but the damage boost is there. So a MNK might rejoice at having the highest DPS in the raid, HOWEVER the amount of extra damage from everyone else that was granted from NIN or DRG's raid-boosting abilities, if they could be filtered out and added to NIN or DRG's personal DPS, might exceed MNK's.

Also NIN and DRG have options when needing to deal damage from afar while dodging mechanics. An example is Ravana EX, when you're doing the whole "Rose of Hate" mechanic. During this phase you need to run around the edge of the arena while pulling your tethers, a NIN or DRG could still use their Lv16 ranged ability to keep up DPS, whereas MNK doesn't have anything like it to keep contributing damage for those 10sec or so. Sure a MNK could circle in closer to Ravana and use their melee rotations but it's a bit more risky. There are other examples like Sephirot EX during the jump-rope wombo-combos in 2nd form, where you need to run out of range of his attacks and then back in and you lose about 1-2 GCDs, especially during the 'run out' part, whereas a NIN can still throw knives and the DRG can still use piercing talon.

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Originally Posted by Neela

average on a stone puppet? yeah you are right than...

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Average in the real fight, here's the statistics for you to view: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/10

Ninja's DPS is sometimes called lowest in compared with other classes, but I often find myself above or equal to other DPS on enmity lists in A5, Weeping City, and expert roulette dungeons.
(I haven't gone beyond A5 as a ninja yet.)

If you play it well you can dish out a ton of DPS.
Your opening combination with Trick Attack is extremely powerful.
It's possible to fit Duality + Armor Crush, Dream within a dream, Mutilate, Shadow Fang, Kassatsu + Raiton, Jugulate, and Mug all within the 10 seconds Vulnerability Debuff. Within Internal Release and Blood for Blood on, this does a huge amount of damage in 10 seconds.


Being NIN also is very beneficial to a group, especially when you have an undergeared / unskilled tank or a DPS who doesn't care about enmity.
If you have a DPS who isn't watching their hate, you can use Smoke Screen to decrease their enmity.

If you have a tank who isn't generating enough enmity, you can use Shade Walker to help them out.

The only problem is that these skills have a relatively long cooldown, so you won't be able to use them every fight.

Out of the 3 melee NIN bring about the best raid utility in Trick Attack, when used at the right time coupled with Battle Litany, Foe's Requiem (w Battle Voice), a Balance Card/Fey Wind deals massive damage. Shadewalker has it uses, I personally found it very effective in A6S. Smokescreen as well has it's uses, such as using it on healers when adds spawn and they just used an AoE heal. Goad is extremely good for longer fights (still sadly NIN's cannot use it themselves :( )

A well played NIN can deal high dps and keep up with the others, although it is known for dealing the lowest out of the 3 melees since MNK is well known for being the highest, followed shortly by DRG.

In regards to your leveling I would say if you have a full group spam Palace of the Dead gives great exp... especially the first 10 floors.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

Ninja's DPS is sometimes called lowest in compared with other classes, but I often find myself above or equal to other DPS on enmity lists

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And this is the problem that I don't understand. When I start with Shade Walker, it put me at Number 6 or 7 on the list. After Trick Attack with Duality and Aeolian Edge (amongst other things), I get pushed up to Number 2 or 3 on the list for almost the rest of the battle. What I don't get is that when someone put the parse up, I'm still last of the other melee dps and maybe SMN/BLM.

One group said I was 1400. Of course, I was extra excited because I was used to doing 900-1000. But then, they said the MNK was about 1600. I was like, "How, when I was number 2 on the list the entire time?". Even if we lose the tank, the boss came at me. I'm beginning to simply ignore the numbers.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

It's possible to fit Duality + Armor Crush, Dream within a dream, Mutilate, Shadow Fang, Kassatsu + Raiton, Jugulate, and Mug all within the 10 seconds Vulnerability Debuff. Within Internal Release and Blood for Blood on, this does a huge amount of damage in 10 seconds.

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Did you mean Duality + Aeolian Edge?

I also found that hitting a buffed Trick Attack (Blood for Blood + Dancing Edge or Storm's Eye) pisses him off as well.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Did you mean Duality + Aeolian Edge?

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Depends on the circumstances. if you have prep time to maximise you're opener then yeah Aeolian edge works better as you can get huton cast 20 seconds before the pull.

If you've gone straight from trash into a bos or something for example chances are you'll be starting that boss fight with maybe 20 seconds on huton.
in this case using trick attack duality with armor crush (160pot) results in a loss of 40 potency over Aeolian edge(180pot). but the trade off is you can kassatsu ratiton (180pot) (total 160x2 + 180 = 500 potency)

if you trick attack duality Aeolian edge then you're probably gonna need to kassatsu huton to ensure it doesn't drop off. (total 180 x2 = 360 potency) 140 potency less than using duality with armor crush.

it depends largely on how much time you have on huton at the start of the fight

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Depends on the circumstances. if you have prep time to maximise you're opener then yeah Aeolian edge works better as you can get huton cast 20 seconds before the pull.

If you've gone straight from trash into a bos or something for example chances are you'll be starting that boss fight with maybe 20 seconds on huton.
in this case using trick attack duality with armor crush (160pot) results in a loss of 40 potency over Aeolian edge(180pot). but the trade off is you can kassatsu ratiton (180pot) (total 160x2 + 180 = 500 potency)

if you trick attack duality Aeolian edge then you're probably gonna need to kassatsu huton to ensure it doesn't drop off. (total 180 x2 = 360 potency) 140 potency less than using duality with armor crush.

it depends largely on how much time you have on huton at the start of the fight

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Thought so... Just needed clarification. Wasn't saying you were incorrect.

And since people don't do Ready Checks, my openers aren't opening anymore lol...

Nin is now second in personal DPS once BiS with the new gear. DRG got gear shafted so the rank is now MNK > NIN > DRG.

I really hope that it will get better with the new gear. Until now (old gear) NIN ist the worst/last personal DPS for the new raid tier (not talking about raid buffs). lets see how that changes.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Did you mean Duality + Aeolian Edge?

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When I have a Warrior in the Party using Storm's Eye, I have a lot more time to use Aelion Edge, because I don't need to think about Dancing Edge.
But I oftentimes find myself close to losing Huton, but I have a Trick Attack and Duality available, so I pop Duality --> Trick Attack --> Armor Crush if I need it. Unless I have a Warrior, I find I often do.

Otherwise I will use Aeolian Edge.

Do you guys know if there's an optimal threshold for sks on ninja? Or is it better to just have sks as low as possible?

As close to 0 (354) as you can get. 3.4 BiS is 488 SkS I think.

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

As close to 0 (354) as you can get. 3.4 BiS is 488 SkS I think.

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thx for your answer. Does the new bis look something like this? I was just playing a little bit with ariyala and this is what I've come up with.

I know this thread is a bit old but so far I've gotten ninja to 55. My only gripe about the class is that every time I get a new skill my rotation gets jumbled up and I go through a period of being confused on how to incorporate the new skill.

Being a DPS is so confusing with all the buttons.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

thx for your answer. Does the new bis look something like this? I was just playing a little bit with ariyala and this is what I've come up with.

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http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/W446

This is what I've come up with, using the the new weights Krindor posted on reddit a couple of days ago. (It's actually 444 SkS, not 488, and I'm using Baked Pipira Pira, cos I'm cheap, lol.)

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Originally Posted by Dogempire

I know this thread is a bit old but so far I've gotten ninja to 55. My only gripe about the class is that every time I get a new skill my rotation gets jumbled up and I go through a period of being confused on how to incorporate the new skill.

Being a DPS is so confusing with all the buttons.

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Every job has to adapt as they gain new abilities...

There really isn't much that affects the core rotation or priorities on Ninja after 50. You still need Huton up, you still want the Slash debuff active, you still want your DoTs active, etc etc. There's nothing new, really.

The addition of Armor Crush just alleviates the need to recast Huton, but it shouldn't be making anything more complicated, you just use it when you need it. The same goes for the remaining abilities. Smoke Screen and Shadewalker are situational, Duality you use whenever it is up and you can pair it with Aeolian Edge, and Dream Within a Dream you just weave into your rotation.

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/W446

This is what I've come up with, using the the new weights Krindor posted on reddit a couple of days ago. (It's actually 444 SkS, not 488, and I'm using Baked Pipira Pira, cos I'm cheap, lol.)

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Oh, so this time around it's us nin that have to wear that ugly ilvl260 piece of gear when all the rest is ilvl270? ;_;

in the end it all comes down to how much you like the class and how good you are with it.

Ninja might have the lowest dps output (we are talking about under 100 dps if the classes are all played good) but his utility pushes the whole group/raid dps with his trick attack and not to forget the nice goad for a tp user.