Why are some people in PvP Feast (Solo) so rude?

There are some vile creatures out there.

I have seen you in several matches in feast. First I would like to say that it is great that you are still trying despite what people may say. However, when matched against you my team rarely struggles to kill you in a few seconds. Killing you so easily while someone else may already be half hp or less often results in chain kills.
By this point I trust you understand what that means for your team and how much harder you all will have to work to turn the match around.

Has anyone given you any advice? I know that most in the feast that care about longevity of the game mode or increasing their chances of winning if they are placed on your team again.
I know that its incredibly aggravating to keep getting paired with someone who doesn't show that they are there to play a team game and improve their play...not that it's justification for being treated poorly I guess...

I think he's improved, he just needs real matchmaking to keep improving :/

Sorry people are mean to you... I try not too be too toxic, but when my team throws because they don't listen I get a bit bad. It's hard to keep a cool head with matchmaking how it is, they are really just frustrated with the system and directing it towards you.

If you are still interested in PvP after all the abuse, I think duels (even though they aren't level synced) would be a great place to practice. Find a friend who is good at bursting and heal against it a ton, optimize cd usage, etc.

The fact that it's ranked mean most people go in with a chip on their shoulder, especially if they haven't been having a good night. Many people feel like a "bad healer" is an insta-loss and as such some people may start letting off on you before the match even begins if they don't recognize you (or recognize you for the wrong reasons). The best thing you can do is to try and shake it off, learn from your mistakes, and do your best to keep improving. What might also help is watching some how some top level WHMs go about playing and then seeing how they compare to your play. A few streams of people who play high level feast WHM off the top of my head are:

https://www.twitch.tv/avarence (Ava Jinsoku/Aviars Lightsworn)
"/tiramisumacaron (Tiramisu Macaron)
"/bartleby704 (me, although I don't stream that much lol)

Even if they aren't streaming you can probably go back and watch some of their vods, and I'm sure there are others who you could watch as well. I can also provide some 4v4 premade footage from a WHM PoV if you'd like that. In the end though it just takes a lot of practice, and introspection on what you can/should be doing better.

One word: competitive.

Matchmaking can be unfair and the win/loss-chance is purely random. Having one bad healer or bad DDs on your side can be very frustrating. Especially when you re Gold and you lose your rank because of other low ranked players.

Amaya plays scholar now and again too.
https://www.twitch.tv/zmomiji/profile

They are pretty decent at lots of jobs actually if you want to see how other jobs are played at a high level.

I think most of them, as has already been said, are frustrated with the matchmaking and often lash out in the wrong way and directed towards the wrong players. FFXIV is one of the most "newb"-unfriendliest MMORPGs I've ever played. There are several reasons for this:

1. PvP pretty much doesn't exist until max level.
2. Upon reaching max level you have no way of learning how the PvP in this game works, other than grinding frontlines, which imo should be done despite the long queue times, until you have a good understanding of your own class and PvP skills as well as others (and have some points to invest in your most important skills/traits) or you immediately start feasting with 8v8 being mostly dead and 4v4 soloq being a toxic environment for new players.
3. The general attitude of some of the experienced PvPers towards new faces. I get that they have to deal with quite a lot of ignorant players who keep queuing and throwing matches, completely ignoring any advice you might offer. The problem is that they often transfer these feelings to new players who actually try their best and are aware of PvP skills, how the game mode works and what their role in it is, they simply lack the experience which you can only get by playing.
I started playing FFXIV again about a week ago and have been feasting somewhat regularly, winning like 75% of my 30~ish games while mostly getting matched with and against gold and silver players - I think I haven't seen an unranked player since reaching bronze - while some of them were very friendly despite not knowing me, others... not so much. I've encountered several top 50 players with a completely f'ed up attitude, insulting unknown faces (meaning me in most cases) from the getgo and still being condescending after the match even if it was a pretty smooth win. When you join a game and the first thing you read is "Why do noobs keep playing and destroy the rating of good players?" and the last thing, after winning mind you, is "lol get carried scrubs", I don't really know what to say to anyone who hasn't a somewhat thick skin in this regard. There's only so much most players can shake off before they stop trying.

All in all, all three parties are to blame in one way or another. SE for not giving new players a chance to experience PvP without the grief, which might happen with dueling and custom matches so that's a good start, the ignorant new players who go into rated PvP without the slightest clue of what they're doing and part of the seasoned PvP community that insists on making the first PvP experience of someone just about as bad as it can be, doesn't matter if they're actually doing good or not; which is something I just don't get - if you love to PvP, you should do anything in your power to make it more active and fun for everyone, scaring off many new players isn't going to do that.

Sadly, due to the matchmaking you're thrown into the heat of things right off the bat. You should consider doing frontlines and getting your PVP rank up and understanding the basic mechanics of PVP before going into ranked feast. People will not exhibit any mercy when they sniff out a new player. You will be focused constantly due to your inexperience, and sometimes it takes days to go up +100. To lose it all because you've neglected to even get a handle on the PVP skills or how to use WHM in such a competitive environment, sadly you can expect to be on the end of other peoples frustrations. I'm not saying it's right, but try to see it from their end too.

People are sticks up their butt, instead of trying to deal with a weak link they just point fingers. Lame.

You've improved. You're not the SCH I could solo as a PLD anymore and you should keep looking for improvements. People will always be toxic in competitive enviorment when they're on the adrenaline of multiple matches and get matches together with someone they know that they're lacking (myself included) but don't let this get you down. Study other people that play your job, focus target them even when you're playing against them so you can see what they're doing. Sadly there isn't much time to give consistent advices before a match start and even less during one. Play the 8v8s Koltik been organizing to get your job mechanics masterized too.

A personal advice I'd give to you is try out using your fairy on Obey instead of Sic, I have noticed some pretty random Whispering Daws during our matches so I assume you're on Sic. Try taking advantage of Virus and Deploy too.

Sadly a very exclusionist environment where only the high skill players are welcome and the rest are harassed until they leave. Maybe the more casual unrated 8v8 matches will pop more once they remove the party composition requirements.

I am gold ranked and have been matched with you on many occasions. Sadly if the other team has at least 1 good dps its nearly impossible to win with you healing. I used to heal feast a lot and I understand the pressure that healers face each match and it only gets harder as you rank up.

The main issue is you get behind on heals and don't have enough sustained healing going on so for example if the other party has a smn, usually the entire party is around 30% health with no burst healing. You also use your fairy on sic which is terrible in PvE or PvP.

I totally understand it takes time and practice to improve on a job you love to play its just unfortunate that its at the detriment of people who cannot afford to spam loses. Which I have seen happen because we are paired with a lower ranked healer. I also understand rank is not a sign of skill but...

I have been matched with you a good number of times. Due to the competitive nature of Feast people seem to get a bit heated if they feel someone is under performing. I have tried to give you advice on how maybe you can improve for the better but you are intolerable to criticism and unresponsive. I do not condone bad behaviour against other players but please take into consideration other people's time and efforts. I have been belittled too for under performing despite my best efforts but I always make the effort to improve and be a team player.

Ok all good points so far. I do realise I am a noob, and don't do well in the feast.

I am not asking for tips of how to play the feast in this thread, because there is only so much I can improve, and this is not my full time job.

I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win, and people need to realise the game is not theirs and I am not a robot, i.e. stop being so selfish. Take a breath, and realise just because you can be mean and abusive behind your screens does not mean I will take it willingly. I have reported a few people already who think they can do whatever they want.

Plus, if you think a bad player can ruin your ratings, then think again, and think whether you are a good player after all.

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Originally Posted by MomijiShadow_

I have been matched with you a good number of times. Due to the competitive nature of Feast people seem to get a bit heated if they feel someone is under performing. I have tried to give you advice on how maybe you can improve for the better but you are intolerable to criticism and unresponsive. I do not condone bad behaviour against other players but please take into consideration other people's time and efforts. I have been belittled too for under performing despite my best efforts but I always make the effort to improve and be a team player.

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That's because at some point, after being chat abused for so long by a few people (I realise not everyone is like that, but I cannot blacklist single members in other servers), I have disabled chat completely in PvP.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Ok all good points so far. I do realise I am a noob, and don't do well in the feast.

I am not asking for tips of how to play the feast in this thread, because there is only so much I can improve, and this is not my full time job.

I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win, and people need to realise the game is not theirs and I am not a robot, i.e. stop being so selfish. Take a breath, and realise just because you can be mean and abusive behind your screens does not mean I will take it willingly. I have reported a few people already who think they can do whatever they want.

Plus, if you think a bad player can ruin your ratings, then think again, and think whether you are a good player after all.

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So, selfishly queue into ranked despite not putting in the effort to get better/win?
There's your answer as to why people are rude to you.

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Originally Posted by Exoxo

So, selfishly queue into ranked despite not putting in the effort to get better/win?
There's your answer as to why people are rude to you.

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Well I am doing my best, people just expect me to play to their level of skill, which I cannot.

Ask SE to make a better ranking system, and match me to players with similar skill then. I want to play so I can get the airship mount. I am not being selfish. I paid subsciption so I believe I have the right to play the content I wish to play. As I said, I am already playing my best.

Anyways, I realise this thread is futile, I just wanted to vent. I feel like I'm the mistress of a dead man and some players think they are the rightful widow who will always say that I stole their happiness in their life whenever we meet. At what point do I get to be rude back?

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Well I am doing my best, people just expect me to play to their level of skill, which I cannot.

Ask SE to make a better ranking system, and match me to players with similar skill then. I want to play so I can get the airship mount. I am not being selfish. I paid subsciption so I believe I have the right to play the content I wish to play. As I said, I am already playing my best.

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Yes you can.
Simply taking the time to understand the cues and effects of the classes around you makes a big difference.

You say that as if we don't pay our subs, I believe I have the right to call someone bad when they are bad.
You want the mount? Get better and play to win.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win, and people need to realise the game is not theirs and I am not a robot, i.e. stop being so selfish. Take a breath, and realise just because you can be mean and abusive behind your screens does not mean I will take it willingly. I have reported a few people already who think they can do whatever they want.

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This makes me so happy that I am a healer and will never be on the team of someone who is playing the most important role and from the second the gate opens is admittedly not there to play as a team. I feel bad for the teams you put through this misery all because you do not respect others enough to give it your best. You can continue to spend time filling out reports against people who have hurt your feelings, and hopefully that buys people enough time to get matched with someone who is willing to play as a member of a team.

You should heavily consider changing your attitude before condemning more players to suffer huge rating losses because ONE person doesn't want to put forth the effort.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Sadly a very exclusionist environment where only the high skill players are welcome and the rest are harassed until they leave. Maybe the more casual unrated 8v8 matches will pop more once they remove the party composition requirements.

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Yes I think the exclusionist people are here to raid this thread too. I think it's time for me to focus on something else and say good riddens - enjoy!

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Plus, if you think a bad player can ruin your ratings, then think again, and think whether you are a good player after all.

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>when the bad player is a healer that gets outhealed by Eos' embrace and refuses to accept any criticism no matter how constructive.

How can a good player carry an unwilling healer that just lets them die over and over?

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Sadly a very exclusionist environment where only the high skill players are welcome and the rest are harassed until they leave. Maybe the more casual unrated 8v8 matches will pop more once they remove the party composition requirements.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10f1a2BLOrw

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Yes I think the exclusionist people are here to raid this thread too. I think it's time for me to focus on something else and say good riddens - enjoy!

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These "exclusionist people" would love for you to continue to strive to improve.. that way we can welcome you to our super secret club...lol

And some of these exclusionists like farming you for rating don't go :O

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win
...
Plus, if you think a bad player can ruin your ratings, then think again, and think whether you are a good player after all.

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Okay, here's the deal, fam. I'm also here to have fun. Do you know what's not fun, though?

Spending 15 minutes in queue, seeing an absolute first-timer, giving them a crash course.. then getting rolled by the enemy team, which does not have a human counterweight on it. The current rating system is garbage, and ensures that the best players are routinely paired with new players.

It's stressful, and it sucks, and everyone's life would be easier if the new players did even listened more than half the time.. but they don't. New players such as yourself acting in this way ensures the perpetuation of this cycle of salt.

Should people be mean to you? Absolutely not. But they're human, too, and they want the same thing as you.. and your selfish behavior ensures that they'll never have fun. Are they meant to just sit there and take it for your enjoyment?

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win, and people need to realise the game is not theirs and I am not a robot, i.e. stop being so selfish.

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Perhaps solo content is more for you.

I like how everyone in the thread started out so nice with words of advice and encouragement and then the 360 when it turns out that they don't want to be a team player lol.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

I am here to have fun

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So you throwing matches because you have no clue what your PvE abilities are and don't even use your PvP as a WHM is fun? Ending matches in less than a minute is fun.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

stop being so selfish

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This is also hypocrisy because you refuse once again to learn anything or to look into anything to better yourself as a player. That is selfish.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

I like how everyone in the thread started out so nice with words of advice and encouragement and then the 360 when it turns out that they don't want to be a team player lol.

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Probably because everyone wants to have fun with others.
But when there's a player that doesn't care for fun group content...

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win, and people need to realise the game is not theirs and I am not a robot, i.e. stop being so selfish.

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Do you even realize the hypocrisy of what you typed here?

This is a competitive, team-based, game mode. There are winners and losers, by definition. I think it's safe to assert that most of us find it more enjoyable to win than it is to lose. So, if you did not queue up to help your team win, then why did you even join? What was the purpose of you being in this content? If your answer is "fun," then I have to ask, what enjoyment you get out of repeatedly losing, and how are you being any less selfish than the people who want to win? If you find losing enjoyable, then at best, that makes you a troll to the other three people on your team. If you find a quick queue and tome farm enjoyable, then you're still a troll. Both of these things are also report-able offences, because, again, this is a competitive and team-based game mode. Everyone is there for fun, sure, but one person's twisted version of "fun" does not outweigh the three other people on the team.

The bottom line is that, if you're not willing to at least try to improve and help your team win, then you don't belong in this content. Consider this, in any other content (raids, trials, or a dungeon) similar behavior and mindsets would see you booted from the party and replaced with someone else. Unfortunately, in PvP, that's not an option, so you shouldn't be surprised when people complain about repeated poor performances.

As noob I can understand him, but to me the major problem is "give us a 4vs4 unranked".
I feel bad any time I'm the cause of a loss for other player's ranking before than mine, but, if I dont' play I don't improve and also I like pvp and I want to play it, let us have a method to not kill our party ranking.

For losses you lose points related on your ranking and your average party ranking, I think this need a rework.
They should make high tier people losing all way less points when they are "carrying" a unranked or bronze for example, and even more it would be nice if instead of Ranking those points would be allocated considering the winrate of the player, because if you spam the Feast, even if you are a potato you will go Silver after a while.

Why some people so hostile. OP isn't trolling. Playing to have fun doesn't automatically mean ignoring advice and throwing matches. They said "I am already playing my best" ergo they are trying to win. It's just that in a competition, not everyone is equally skilled. Sorry that matchmaking might place you with somebody from a lower skill tier than yourself, but it's not their problem, they just want to participate to the best of their ability. Harassing players isn't going to make them better -- more or less the same thing Yoshida said when he posted in the pvp forum because the attitude problem is that widespread.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Why some people so hostile. OP isn't trolling. Playing to have fun doesn't automatically mean ignoring advice and throwing matches. They said "I am already playing my best" ergo they are trying to win. It's just that in a competition, not everyone is equally skilled. Sorry that matchmaking might place you with somebody from a lower skill tier than yourself, but it's not their problem, they just want to participate to the best of their ability. Harassing players isn't going to make them better -- more or less the same thing Yoshida said when he posted in the pvp forum because the attitude problem is that widespread.

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He also said he wasn't playing to be a part of a team so I dunno what you are trying to defend him for. This threads focus has been on his explicitly saying that he will not work as a team member, and his admitting to turning party chat off... which is a huge handicap whether or not people are harassing him.

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Originally Posted by Anchored0wl

He also said he wasn't playing to be a part of a team so I dunno what you are trying to defend him for. This threads focus has been on his explicitly saying that he will not work as a team member, and his admitting to turning party chat off... which is a huge handicap whether or not people are harassing him.

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I have different interpretation of what I see here. It's not like they were actively trying to forsake their team. Just somebody who was trying to do their personal best despite being discouraged by angry people, but it looks like they are giving up now, so... one less pvp player, I don't think it is the right call to make people feel unwelcome.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I have different interpretation of what I see here. It's not like they were actively trying to forsake their team. Just somebody who was trying to do their personal best despite being discouraged by angry people, but it looks like they are giving up now, so... one less pvp player, I don't think it is the right call to make people feel unwelcome.

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Maybe you'd have a point if he didn't say this

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Ok all good points so far. I do realise I am a noob, and don't do well in the feast.

I am not asking for tips of how to play the feast in this thread, because there is only so much I can improve, and this is not my full time job.

I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win, and people need to realise the game is not theirs and I am not a robot, i.e. stop being so selfish. Take a breath, and realise just because you can be mean and abusive behind your screens does not mean I will take it willingly. I have reported a few people already who think they can do whatever they want.

Plus, if you think a bad player can ruin your ratings, then think again, and think whether you are a good player after all.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Well I am doing my best, people just expect me to play to their level of skill, which I cannot.

Ask SE to make a better ranking system, and match me to players with similar skill then. I want to play so I can get the airship mount. I am not being selfish. I paid subsciption so I believe I have the right to play the content I wish to play. As I said, I am already playing my best.

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Defeatism and hypocrisy in just two posts, if he wanted the mount it'd be in his best interest to get better no matter what.

Instead he resists improvement claiming to not be able to get better and it's everyone else that's selfish that they want a good game of PvP. I don't know about you but getting slaughtered because my healer has no idea what he's doing and refuses to listen(going as far as turning off party chat) is not fun, and let's not forget that our rating is at stake as well.

That "I pay my sub" excuse has never been a valid defense for anything and it needs to go away. If he feels he can repeatedly queue in knowingly being bad and not caring about his team's opinion then they can repeatedly call him out on his behavior, what makes them wrong and him right?

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Ok all good points so far. I do realise I am a noob, and don't do well in the feast.

I am not asking for tips of how to play the feast in this thread, because there is only so much I can improve, and this is not my full time job.I am here to have fun, and please realise that my priority is not to help you win, and people need to realise the game is not theirs and I am not a robot, i.e. stop being so selfish. Take a breath, and realise just because you can be mean and abusive behind your screens does not mean I will take it willingly. I have reported a few people already who think they can do whatever they want.

Plus, if you think a bad player can ruin your ratings, then think again, and think whether you are a good player after all.

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Are you being serious? I que for PvP because its fun you que for PvP because its fun. However, you must at some point think that farming loses is not fun? You also mention that your priority is not to help us win.... You do know that as a healer you are the single most important aspect to whether a party wins. You must not, obviously.
I will agree that some people who have attained gold rank are not good, just lucky with matchmaking or being fed wins. All of which do happen. However you're making false assumptions when, in reality, most of the people who have qued with you are using facts to support their opinion of your healing. The fact is you are not the best healer, you are not willing to listen to advice, and in the same breath you just stated that your priority is not helping the team win. Thanks for confirming that you enjoy playing PvP and being the single reason why people lose.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

That's because at some point, after being chat abused for so long by a few people (I realise not everyone is like that, but I cannot blacklist single members in other servers), I have disabled chat completely in PvP.

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Yes let me turn off the single means of communication from my team so that i can't see them trying to go over game plans; because they are trying to actually still win the fight.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Anyways, I realise this thread is futile, I just wanted to vent. I feel like I'm the mistress of a dead man and some players think they are the rightful widow who will always say that I stole their happiness in their life whenever we meet. At what point do I get to be rude back?

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When you start being a team player

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Yes I think the exclusionist people are here to raid this thread too. I think it's time for me to focus on something else and say good riddens - enjoy!

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K Bye

/end

What is it that you're wanting from this?

Do you see how hypocritical you're being? People are rude to you, so you decide to be rude to everyone and accuse people of being exclusionists or treating the game like a job.

I have been paired up with and have gone against you a few times, and yes, you are obviously new and still learning. In that regard, it's not really your fault that the matchmaking is placing you in matches that are
beyond your skill right now. SE should either go back to the season 1 system, or just change it entirely so that there's no way for newbies to be matched up with, say, gold ranked players and beyond. It's completely unfair on both sides.

However, you've got the wrong attitude about all of this. Is it okay to want to have fun? Sure! But you need to understand that this is a competitive mode. Any competitive mode in a game is expected to be taken at least somewhat seriously. It's not even just about winning, but putting forth the effort to get better and learning from your mistakes. There's no need to denigrate people who want you to play to win, because that's the whole point of a competitive mode. Furthermore, I'm sorry that some people are rude to you. But like it's been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, a competitive mode always runs high with tension because people want to win and matchmaking is not always balanced like it should be. Now we come to the other side of the coin: players who want to be competitive will not be very tolerant of people who are practically dead weight.

Yes, healing in PvP is hard. Crazy hard. I've done it on AST and I can't see why people would put themselves through such torture. But your team needs you to try harder -- to improve. We tell people to do Frontline and 8 vs 8 Feast (despite it never popping -.-) not because we're all like "gtfo filthy casual and go play in the kiddie pool", but that most of us understand that the learning curve for Feast is quite rough and can be absolutely not fun for all involved. Frontline tends to be a slower, easier pace for getting used to PvP healing (or PvP anything, honestly). There are resources out there like the streams Anchored0wl posted, or (eventually) PvPaissa. We've reached out to you in this very thread because it's true, as much as we get annoyed by having healers who aren't up to snuff, we still appreciate you for doing the job that most of us can't or won't do.

Who knows? Perhaps my words are wasted at this point. But please give consideration to the fact that we're all here to have fun, and sometimes winning a competition or at least being able to put up a hard fight is considered fun to most higher level feasters. Don't leave, just try a little harder. If you don't want to put in effort, then I don't know what to tell you right now. Short of matchmaking being fixed, I'd have to respectfully ask you not to bother queuing for solo feast (though theoretically you'd still be okay for party feast if you've got some friends who aren't tryhard). Doing so just ends up ruining other people's fun (not just your team, but some people don't like easy wins and don't actually feel good about taking advantage of you). If you want to intentionally make feast hellish for whatever team gets you, then you're just as bad as any "rude" person and you should be ashamed of yourself for sinking lower than them.