Realism.

Can someone post me the real definition of realism and what XIV's definition of realism is because from what I have been reading I do believe they are 2 separate things.

I run around on an overgrown yellow bird while using crystallized elements to make gear that helps me fight overgrown rats, Dodos (I believed to be extinct), Raptors (also supposedly extinct), a god like creature of fire (no i don't mean a volcano), while building up my rage met... I mean TP to stick my lance in mob's ass that shoots a beam of light at it.

I have worker (slave is what i consider her) that sells my junk in a cold well lit room filled with other "workers" and they do nothing but stand all day. Did i mention she doesn't even get paid for this?

Yes please add more realism so i can play SIMS MMO. I want a shower and a toilet in my House please. A stove because pulling out that pot belly isn't going to get the results i want. My moogle should be my pet that waits for me to return from working on my weaving all day.

I also want a bathroom... my character has had to doodoo for over a year.

Add a gym so my highlander can go pump some cobalt (iron's overrated) lol.

At the start of FFXIV the realism they was talking about was how realistic the Gear look. You could look at a body and say oh it's made from this item and that and little of that. How realistic the sky look and how the weather look real but it seem people think that just because there a chocobo and dodo and what not is not realistic in the sense of real life. But that not the realism we talking about we talking about how real it look within the game water,sky,mobs how you can see there skin and see Hair part of the mob body and stuff like that.

People take it too far saying the people are talking about stuff in real life when we not we just talking about the game itself how real it looks.

so that the definition for realism in FFXIV how real things look within the game and most of us think the new 2.0 patch would lose a lot of that just so low end pc can play.

The graphics are not cartoonish.. they are more realistic than in many other mmorpg games with crazy moon jumps and a great variety of crazy mounts. So the atmosphere. Thats why people think high jumping or too many xxl monster rides may disturb this atmosphere. There is no deal to fantasy or what u think. I think so too..

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Originally Posted by SnickleWhiskers

Can someone post me the real definition of realism and what XIV's definition of realism is because from what I have been reading I do believe they are 2 separate things.

I run around on an overgrown yellow bird while using crystallized elements to make gear that helps me fight overgrown rats, Dodos (I believed to be extinct), Raptors (also supposedly extinct), a god like creature of fire (no i don't mean a volcano), while building up my rage met... I mean TP to stick my lance in mob's ass that shoots a beam of light at it.

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Fantasy realism, something that will be plausible with the game physics and setting.
True realism, something plausible in real life. Fantasy realism can include true realism, but the other way around doesn't work.

example (just examples, get over it):
Fantasy realism: riding big yellow birds instead of horses;
Fantasy shenanigan: anima teleportation (barely used by NPCs and not explained why [many many many quests would have been purposeless if NPCs would have just teleported/return] -- but it solves a need for players until better fantasy realistic solutions are found [chocobo, airship, etc.])

People walking into a Final Fantasy game expecting realism are going to be sadly disappointed. And people thinking jumping & mount variety ruins a game are sadly mistaken. People nit picking the small things and forget the fact that the only things thats going actually change the game is the 2.0 update itself, or rather all the update up to that point. A small game mechanic addition & less boring means of transportation isnt going to make or break this game nor its "realism", leave that to the update.

Nah guys, realism only has a black and white definition. There are no in-betweens.

If you can't go to bathroom that's it, no realism in your game. Might as well go all out since nothing matters anymore.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Nah guys, realism only has a black and white definition. There are no in-betweens.

If you can't go to bathroom that's it, no realism in your game. Might as well go all out since nothing matters anymore.

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Hey man... long as we get pogo sticks

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Nah guys, realism only has a black and white definition. There are no in-betweens.

If you can't go to bathroom that's it, no realism in your game. Might as well go all out since nothing matters anymore.

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This is completely false.

FFXIV does contain a degree realism. And the way you would define it is by asking: How realistic is FFXIV?

For example, FFXIV is more realistic than World of Warcraft.

To answer the OP's question, Realism lies in the realm of plausibility and how your character specifically interacts with the world. Riding an overgrown bird (Chocobos) is more realistic than superman flying through the air. Fighting monsters the size of Ifrit is more plausible than fighting some of the monsters in World of Warcraft (Where all you do is hack at their ankles and supposedly deliver a killing blow by mangling their toenails).

Another way of looking at it... is what are the limits/constraints placed on the character. Normally, people are limited to moving through space... in FFXIV, you can simply teleport across vast areas. This lowers the realism.

Overall, FFXIV has some realism, that helps add to immersion, but if it were taken to the extreme (implementing a constraint for having to go to the bathroom for example) it would ruin the game.

So, it becomes a balancing act: Realism vs Fantasy, and the developers will struggle with this from time to time, but it isn't such a great issue as some might think.

Thank you all for your responses it was informative. It's not that there's a basic realism people are using it's that peoples views differ on realism quite a bit when it comes to this game. I started this post seeing people throw that word around (jumping being the most cases recently) often on these forums and wondering exactly what they meant by them. I'd cry if they ever actually implemented eating/sleeping(which would prolly just be logging off)/bathroom time.

On realism.

Games and other forms of fantasy entertainment have to walk a tightrope between believability and accessibility. We all have certain things we are willing to overlook in order to have a spectacular world like magic, monsters, and high technology. But still, magic and monsters need to have a degree of rational design to them in order for players to call it 'realistic'. It doesn't take a huge suspension of disbelief to see a hulking troll lumbering across a rocky landscape dragging a giant club behind it - it's not difficult to imagine that scene in our world as it follows the rules of things we are familiar with. However, if that same troll could walk on air, eat the moon, and shoot diamond-studded chainsaws from it's eyes, we would all say that's pretty unrealistic.

Likewise, most of the fundamental forces in our daily lives (ie. weather, gravity, light life, death, the behavior of common plants and animals, sound waves, the Sun, Moon, wind, physics, the flow of energy, etc..), can be tweaked a bit in a gaming world without infringing on the realism too much. If carried too far - however - the players will require a logical explanation in order to retain realism and consistency.

While we expect that our games be realistic and lifelike in many things, there is another realistic part of life that we would rather not deal with in our games. The burdensome or uncomfortable parts of life such as Hunger, Poverty, Fatigue, Disease, Injury, Filth, Grime, Aging, Work, Pests, Disabilities, Decay, Ugliness, Bodily functions, real Death, etc.. are often omitted from even the most realistic games. When they do appear, they are used in a very deliberate way to enhance the player's experience in accordance with the game/world design or are confined to the realms of villains.

The Final Fantasy series has an extra layer of 'realism' in it. Namely, it has it's own mythos and history which has developed over many years and has become accepted as consistent with a FF universe. Certain things that might be considered unrealistic in other formats are forgiven in because of the history of the franchise. Similarity, many things that are commonly thought of as lifelike in other games can actually diminish the 'realism' of a Final Fantasy game.

It's real in the fact that it's possible. it's real because all aspects are accounted for and explained, and there isn't rediculious crap that would be ocmpletely impossible, other than enima, which is why I'm in favor of the removal of enima in favor of mage teleports.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

For example, FFXIV is more realistic than World of Warcraft.

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Oh good, I can stop reading this post. You compared FFXIV with WoW which is an automatic stop reading for me. But to squeeze a bit out of your post, do you really think fighting something Ifrit's size is realistic compared to fighting a giant? What if they add Iron Giant or Behemoth to FFXIV? What about Ifrit's size compared to a Lalafell?

Joke topic with serious posts... Well played OP.

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Originally Posted by Rubicon

Oh good, I can stop reading this post. You compared FFXIV with WoW which is an automatic stop reading for me. But to squeeze a bit out of your post, do you really think fighting something Ifrit's size is realistic compared to fighting a giant? What if they add Iron Giant or Behemoth to FFXIV? What about Ifrit's size compared to a Lalafell?

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I was illustrating the degrees of realism. On one hand if you fight something 100x your size vs 5x your size, which is more plausible? I was trying to be as clear and concise as possible, sorry if I failed on that front.

I could easily have compared great buffalo with Dodore, but because the distinction is more obvious when comparing with World of Warcraft, I chose to do so. If you could explain why it is wrong to compare FFXIV with WoW, please enlighten.

'Realism' is a cop-out answer given by people who dislike creativity and progress, and would like to have FFXI with prettier graphics. It's usually not related to actual realism.

Months ago during the swimming and jumping debates, people called those two actions unrealistic. Same with stylized weapons from Ifrit. Same with new crafting recipes. Same with crafting animations.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

'Realism' is a cop-out answer given by people who dislike creativity and progress, and would like to have FFXI with prettier graphics. It's usually not related to actual realism.

Months ago during the swimming and jumping debates, people called those two actions unrealistic. Same with stylized weapons from Ifrit. Same with new crafting recipes. Same with crafting animations.

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I would actually argue, the weapons from Ifrit are fairly realistic. You have to grant that in a Fantasy game, you will encounter some fairly spectacular monsters... Ifrit being one of them. That said, given the design of Ifrit and the fact that his horn's are the basis for the weapons themselves, the weapons should reflect the design elements of Ifrit.

It would be implausible for the weapon to not resemble Ifrit and his horn, unless a specific explanation was given. For example, say the weapons were from the NPC rather than Ifrit himself.

I think it's clear at this point there are two viewpoints of Realism: one of which actually representing the real world, and one that represents degrees of plausibility. While you can mix the two, they are distinct.

I thought the game was Final Fantasy, not Final Realism...

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

I thought the game was Final Fantasy, not Final Realism...

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Maybe you missing the point final fantasy is a high fantasy game and within the game everything look very realistic Like a body or legs you can see small detail and you can say oh. This Body is made from Iron and leather boar with some Steel mix into it. The mobs you can see the skin and see the detail on it like how you would in real life so it have that realism feel like you would see in real life from a bird,boar or anything. So yes it's a fantasy game but the base of the game everything within it look really real with great detail so that where the realism of the game come from.

If people have not yet found out that what we saying about realism is really like then i don't know if you trolling or just don't get it. They may not be chocobo in real life but the way it move and the feather are very realistic. Now most mobs you could find in real life like Dodo they are real there no longer on the earth but there real they even some chocobo like bird found lol but that not the realism we talking about we talking about how realistic the skin,feather and many other thing look very real like.

with 2.0 most of us think this small detail and realism would be lost just so low end pc can play. Most of us hoping that high end pc still can get the same level of feel and the art work of overall game don't switch over looking like aion or tera.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Maybe you missing the point final fantasy is a high fantasy game and within the game everything look very realistic Like a body or legs you can see small detail and you can say oh. This Body is made from Iron and leather boar with some Steel mix into it. The mobs you can see the skin and see the detail on it like how you would in real life so it have that realism feel like you would see in real life from a bird,boar or anything. So yes it's a fantasy game but the base of the game everything within it look really real with great detail so that where the realism of the game come from.

If people have not yet found out that what we saying about realism is really like then i don't know if you trolling or just don't get it. They may not be chocobo in real life but the way it move and the feather are very realistic. Now most mobs you could find in real life like Dodo they are real there no longer on the earth but there real they even some chocobo like bird found lol but that not the realism we talking about we talking about how realistic the skin,feather and many other thing look very real like.

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Please explain to me what's not realism. Is it things that don't have an in-game explanation? Would they become realism if they had an in-game explanation?

When you saw avatar did you go "oh that's SO unrealistic"?

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

with 2.0 most of us think this small detail and realism would be lost just so low end pc can play. Most of us hoping that high end pc still can get the same level of feel and the art work of overall game don't switch over looking like aion or tera.

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Pretty sure it's only people like you, Zenaku, who think this. Yoshida has repeatedly said in almost a dozen interviews so far that graphics quality will increase with 2.0's graphics engine.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Pretty sure it's only people like you, Zenaku, who think this. Yoshida has repeatedly said in almost a dozen interviews so far that graphics quality will increase with 2.0's graphics engine.

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Ya but did he also say realism would be cut down to give it more of a fantasy feel? or maybe i read it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Ya but did he also say realism would be cut down to give it more of a fantasy feel? or maybe i read it wrong.

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You mean to give it more of a Final Fantasy feel, like Yoshi has been saying since day 1.

Tanaka's FFXIV was like a crappy high fantasy/medieval simulation. Yoshi's FFXIV feels like Final Fantasy and like an actual game.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Please explain to me what's not realism. Is it things that don't have an in-game explanation? Would they become realism if they had an in-game explanation?

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Loading screens.... so un-realism :D

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Originally Posted by Majidah

When you saw avatar did you go "oh that's SO unrealistic"?

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Yes, Yes I did say that.