No More Healers

At best we have a shoddy balance between the three, and it feels like Astrologian still isn't widely seen as a good healer. Some new content, some more traits, maybe an ability or two for everyone would be nice, but not another healer. We have a burst healer, we have a shielder, we have a job that can regen or...well, lets not get into it, there's other threads for that. But it can buff too. Then we get people who want off-healers and DPS healers, SCH works fine for that, and we don't need any more ACC or Healer DPS threads. I don't think the content is big enough for us to need 4 healers, and I really don't think they could all be balanced at this point.

Only Nocturnal AST is considered to be week, Dirunal AST had been stronger than WHM for the majority of Midas because of the vast amount of Darkness attacks and strong Magical attacks to make Disable and Collective Unconsiousness valuable (on top of that if your partner is a SCH, both of these skills' mitigation stack with SCH's counterparts of them: Virus and Sacred Soil). Nocturnal is considered weak mostly because SCH is too powerfull and not because Noct is bad designed.

On regards of how many healers, technically we do have 4 healers to chose for but limited on the choice of Noct and Di AST in a same party for progression thanks to Limit Break issues. Also I think somewhere they said we wouldn't get new healers for expansion, can't say for sure about this statement but I'll look aruond about it. Also you just made a "thread about healer dps" that you so despite, looks like. If you wanna rant about it please bring solid arguments.

I'd like to see a tp-based healer, (maybe dancer?) vs an mp-based one. But, before any of that, we really need a couple more types of caster dps, to make up for all the physical dps classes first.

Dont know if its a good idea (and would not like to have my whm taken apart) but they could always take Regen away from the WHM...give them just op straight up heals (and haste :P), and make the next job Regen based XD

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

...Also you just made a "thread about healer dps" that you so despite, looks like. If you wanna rant about it please bring solid arguments.

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Let me clarify. The only unique healer ideas I've seen revolve around a healer with higher damage capabilities than others. (Red Mages, Geos, even the Samurai thread.) I also have no issues with any of the healers in their current states. Furthermore, we do not have four healers, no one works in technicalities, otherwise you could just as easily say we have two and a half healers. Now, if we're going into the Ast/Ast combo, the reason people don't do that is obvious, it's just because Scholar is so much stronger and has an amazing toolkit, so why not.

But this isn't very on topic.

My intention is not to rant, and I don't believe I have. It's to have a conversation with other players about whether or not a fourth healer type can even fit into the game as it is, obviously I don't believe one can.

Astrologian is a GREAT main healer. They just can't compete with SCH for the off heal role, because they are so synergistcally designed to main heal. Its not like WHM can flip a switch and become a more mana efficient off healer or SCH summon Eos and be an on par main healer. We have 2 efficient Main Healers and one efficient off healer.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

I completely disagree. I don't see the SCHs pet as a 'problem'. It's part of what makes the job unique, and I'm not for all jobs being carbon copies of each other. AST was and is the main problem because the devs didn't focus on the aspect that makes it unique, instead they tried to make it a copy of both WHM and SCH.

This is why if they do add a fourth healer I'm hoping it will compete with SCH and AST can get Nocturnal Sect removed and buffed in Diurnal/Cards. There's no reason that one job should be allowed to achieve everything.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

This is exactly what Kabzy was trying to explain wasn't true. AST is a great main healer with it's diurnal sect. SCH is a great off healer with it's fairy and aetherflow management. AST is a much weaker off healer, because its selling role is to main heal. SCH do not main heal, not because they can't, but because WHM/AST are much stronger main healers and less adapted to off heal. WHM and AST should compete for the main heal slot. SE needs to introduce a healer, who like SCH, can off heal very efficiently, but might struggle compared to AST/WHM main healing, so that SCH can be balanced by this fourth healer. AST cannot be an excellent main healer and off healer and expect to call it balance. A buff to time dialation and celestial opposition in nocturnal is all I'd be behind.


Tldr:
SCH isn't broken. It needs another healer who can compete with it in the off heal slot. AST having every role isn't balance and what is causing it's jack of all trades issues.

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So yes I want to see a fourth healer, that can put SCH out of its comfort zone of a mandatory slot, just like AST is able to truly compete with WHM. :]

I'd be all for a 4 healer... so long as it isnt "WHM variant No. 3". If they cant give it a truly unique and separate playstyle like most ffxiv classes, it doesnt deserve to be added.

I agree i would love a fourth healer with an entirely new mecanic :D

And remember that sch is only strong because of CritAdlo (ah the fairy... Yeah cheat healing agreed...)
Hopefuly tey did lose their lustrates cheat otherwise... It would have been too strong

And let's not think about taking out any whm spell
Those poor thing would be crushed XD
I mean ast is now so much better to use

We better not have any new classes at all then.

It's not fair to keep adding other roles and give nothing to people who main healers.

I really hate when people try to bring up this argument. Maybe you should look at World of Warcraft? That game has SIX healers and they all play incredibly differently while still being mostly balanced. There is plenty of room for more.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

We better not have any new classes at all then.

It's not fair to keep adding other roles and give nothing to people who main healers.

I really hate when people try to bring up this argument. Maybe you should look at World of Warcraft? That game has SIX healers and they all play incredibly differently while still being mostly balanced. There is plenty of room for more.

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Yes, and also, please don't make us healer mains to have to try out disciples of war so that we can use the healer. Keep healers disciples of magic, like AST that doesn't require any cross class skills. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Keep healers disciples of magic, like AST that doesn't require any cross class skills. Thanks.

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Although Swiftcast, Cleric Stance and Protect are not required to play the class, they are pretty.... erm... required to be a good Astrologian. Stoneskin and Aero are very good for AST as well to have. No such thing as too many tools to get the job done, unless laziness is your motto. :0

The point of cross class is to give you basic insight of your party members roles, to understand how they play. Pushing a healer to understand the limitations of view from melee, who otherwise wouldn't know about it, is a good thing.

Here comes the Wanda Maximoff of the healers... -.-

On a more serious note, I REALLY want a new healer, that's 80% of my hype over 4.0 rn.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Yes, and also, please don't make us healer mains to have to try out disciples of war so that we can use the healer. Keep healers disciples of magic, like AST that doesn't require any cross class skills. Thanks.

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Well said. All they have to do is make the same ability but just give it a different name so you dont heed the cross-class. For example, if Red Mage is the next healer, give it Fast Cast so it doesn't need Swiftcast.

I think the need for a fourth healer is less about balance and more about variety. If the next healer plays a lot differently to the current ones then it will attract more people to play that role. Healer queues aren't as fast as tanks but definitely quicker than DPS, so if you can get more people playing healers this will alleviate queue times for all roles.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Yes, and also, please don't make us healer mains to have to try out disciples of war so that we can use the healer. Keep healers disciples of magic, like AST that doesn't require any cross class skills. Thanks.

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Sorry, but FFT's chemist is just way too interesting to just forget.

I'm dying for a tp based healer. Something non magical. Healers do not have to be mages. Lets have some variety!

Though I would rather something closer to a chemist then a dancer.

Couple of assumptions being made here, this isn't an "us vs them (well...me)" scenario, I'm a healer main too.

I'm not particularly interested in them just adding healers because everyone just wants a new brand of the same flavor. I particularly liked Rawrz's post because it's a completely reasonable idea and already coincides with the developers stated intentions. But the idea only works because it's competition for SCH and only works if AST is taken out of the off healing game. With the game as it is, Scholars have a guaranteed slot. Suppose we get one of the following healers:

1.) DPS/Healer - Welcome early on, but nonexistent late game. With SCHs taking up a heal slot (and DPSing along the way), the other has to be for a burst healer who can deal with larger damage spikes. And before people argue that DPS/Heals could take a DPS slot, people fight for DPS as much as possible, and a class that's only kind of good at it won't be very welcome endgame.

(Double Because Limit)

2.) Buff/Healer - Great, an AST remake. AST is already working with 6 buff types, if another healer comes along with guaranteed buffing power AST's RNG won't be very welcome. If this healer has lower healing capability in exchange for the buffs, it might make up for it but no one likes weaker heals.

3.) Regen Healer - Sure, might work really well for dungeons, hell, a DPS/Regen healer sounds really cool, but spike damage gets insane later on, and big heals are more reactionary than preparatory (excluding SCH).

I understand people genuinely want a healer, but I'm only really seeing people screaming that they want a new healer really badly. No one's thinking about how this would fit into the game, and how it would fit in among the other healer types.

Oh I just thought of something. How about a healer that can turn a mob into an ally? That way it cannot dps but it can still complete the MSQ and do passive dmg/mitigation.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Oh I just thought of something. How about a healer that can turn a mob into an ally? That way it cannot dps but it can still complete the MSQ and do passive dmg/mitigation.

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I mean, that sort of solves the problem... But it doesn't solve the problem of "nobody's going to want to pick it up for boss battles, because it doesn't offer any additional damage abilities, and other healers are perfectly adequate at healing".

...I can't see that many people scrambling to get it, either, given how boring it seems like it would be to play.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Oh I just thought of something. How about a healer that can turn a mob into an ally? That way it cannot dps but it can still complete the MSQ and do passive dmg/mitigation.

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Broken ability idea aside, the fact remains that a DPS-less Healer can't level up or do solo content easily by themselves. It'd be impossible for them to do MANY things in the game at a pace faster than Auto-Attacking. Want to grind FATEs for the current relic step? Can't do that. Want to do Leves for a quick level up? No can do. Want to kill that weekly B-rank for some Clan Marks? Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by ErdrickLoto

it doesn't solve the problem of "nobody's going to want to pick it up for boss battles, because it doesn't offer any additional damage abilities, and other healers are perfectly adequate at healing".

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The only way a 0-DPS Healer would see use in Hardcore content is if they could heal for free while doubling raid DPS, Also known as completely broken.

A 0-DPS Healer is as bad as 2.x SMN in FCoB.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Yes, and also, please don't make us healer mains to have to try out disciples of war so that we can use the healer. Keep healers disciples of magic, like AST that doesn't require any cross class skills. Thanks.

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Personally think this is a selfish notion. There are some players who would like to branch out to other roles, there's no reason to require a limit on themes on top of that.

Don't bother trying to reason with Plato, they're a fanatic for wanting a healer that can't dps at all for whatever reason. They're either a really successful troll or honestly hate healers doing better DPS than DF baddies and therefor Healers should have no option to dps, not taking the rest of the game's content into consideration.

Honestly it's hard for me to tell if they're serious when they say things such as

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Maybe they should disable cleric stance in duties.

And maybe for MSQ, if you use a healer, you can automatically skip the parts that require you to dps.

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It's like the worst game of "Troll or Stupid?".

"Hey, you know that skill that let's Healers do content by themselves more easily? Let's disable that in duties now because lul. Also Healers should never be forced to do combat stuff so just make them skip the combat in MSQ."

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Yes, and also, please don't make us healer mains to have to try out disciples of war so that we can use the healer. Keep healers disciples of magic, like AST that doesn't require any cross class skills. Thanks.

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How about we just remove Healers from the game instead? And make every fight just about mechanics like Deep Dungeon (but harder of course).
Then Healers will never have to DPS.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

AST that doesn't require any cross class skills.

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This statement seriously hurt my head.

Like really.

I think I need to go lay down now.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

It's like the worst game of "Troll or Stupid?".

"Hey, you know that skill that let's Healers do content by themselves more easily? Let's disable that in duties now because lul. Also Healers should never be forced to do combat stuff so just make them skip the combat in MSQ."

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Good lord they actually said that somewhere?

Just...I have no words.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

At best we have a shoddy balance between the three, and it feels like Astrologian still isn't widely seen as a good healer.

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lol, I stopped reading right there. AST/SCH combo was a World 3rd A8S clear. It's certain players that aren't good, not the job.

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Originally Posted by technole

lol, I stopped reading right there. AST/SCH combo was a World 3rd A8S clear. It's certain players that aren't good, not the job.

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Sorry that I can only speak about my own experiences? You can like, leave or something.