Samurai Weapon: Nodachi or basic katana

So if Samurai is in 4.0 as a new Job then which type of Japanese sword would be used?

The nodachi which is basically a very big katana or the basic simple katana which is a bit lighter due to smaller in size.

I personally want a nodachi, because I really want Samurai to be a 2h dps. I want to wield a giant 2h and wreck stuff with but I can't stand dragoon.

Couldn't samurai use the long sword together with short sword and be dual wielding tank?

I know that folks want 2h dps, but there is also room for dual wielding tank. ^^

Unfortunately, Samurai throughout the FF series used 2handed katanas. There isn't a single instance of a Samurai class or character using 2 katanas. Edge doesn't count because he was a Ninja, and his katanas were shorter. Also, Dual wielding large weapons like Katanas is impractical, albeit stylish. Yes, we know Musashi did it but it was only effective for dualing and just because one guy did it and wrote a book about it, doesn't make it efficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJBEDxh0RQw

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Unfortunately, Samurai throughout the FF series used 2handed katanas. There isn't a single instance of a Samurai class or character using 2 katanas. Edge doesn't count because he was a Ninjas, and his katanas were shorter. Also, Dual wielding large weapons like Katanas is impractical, albeit stylish. Yes, we know Musashi did it but it was only effective for dualing and just because one guy did it and wrote a book about it, doesn't make it efficient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJBEDxh0RQw

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To be honest I was commenting entirely based on the katana being often accompanied by a shorter sword on display stands. It made me wonder if these weren't used together in some instances.

Having dual wielding samurai tank seems more reasonable coz we already have DRK and we also lack dual wielding tanks (of course Red mage tank could also use sword and dagger etc.)

Everything depends on Yoshida and his team.

Holy shit, you open the Pandora Box!!! Now this thread will turn again into a debate about if Samuria shouldbe Tank or DPS (Again).

PD: A normal katana. I hate nodachis, remember me to Sephiroth and I hate that overated character.
PPD: Tank or riot!!

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Couldn't samurai use the long sword together with short sword and be dual wielding tank?

I know that folks want 2h dps, but there is also room for dual wielding tank. ^^

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I actually really want this, DPS may lack a sword DPS, but we lack a dual wielding tank :^)

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Holy shit, you open the Pandora Box!!! Now this thread will turn again into a debate about if Samuria shouldbe Tank or DPS (Again).

PD: A normal katana. I hate nodachis, remember me to Sephiroth and I hate that overated character.
PPD: Tank or riot!!

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He has indeed xD, I think this time I won't get so involved as it becomes quite a mess D:

I think the Samurai class should totally use a Bow. Because why not?

Personally, I hope Samurai turns out to be DPS so that it can be the "I get stronger as my HP drops" Final Fantasy trope. That way we can get a Blue Mage tank and then everyone can be happy.

Samurai should use a Yari/Naginata. End of the story.

Here's a brief and crude description. Samurai usually wore two swords in a pair of long (katana) and short (wakizashi were shorter katana and tanto were more like daggers). The katana is a 2 handed weapon, you often cannot attain enough speed or strength against an armored opponent using a sword in 1 hand, especially for draw cuts. We know historically, the wakizashi was used for:
-Close quarters, where an opponent was too close to use a 5 foot long blade.
-A shorter blade was lighter and had a shorter handle and could be manipulated easily with a single hand and be used extremely close to slide between the armor plates of a downed opponent or through the front of an armored helmet.
-If the katana was damaged, broken, or disarmed, the wakizashi was a side-arm.

Very rarely did Samurai dual wield. Did it -never- happen? No, some probably did. But on a battlefield, it would be pointless. People wore armor to battle, you can do damage while dualwielding against people wearing mail. To use a katana properly, which requires both hands obviates the need to dual wield. It would be like a modern soldier using a rifle in one hand and a handgun in another hand. Sure you could aim at two targets simultaneously but the accuracy and recoil would do more harm than good. Just because some warriors wore two weapons doesn't mean they were used simultaneously.

This thread kinda makes me miss FFXI, pretty much literally everyone could be pleased then :'(
And i also think that FFXI did it pretty well in regards to size. Not all were the same size or shape.

So why don't we hope for both Nodachi and 'basic' Katana sizes and glamour as we see fit? :)

You know how we get lots of weapons to choose from right!?... Well, we could get both long swords and normal swords and then we select the one we want to use!...

Sephiroth's sword is cool, two handed.

Kenshin's sword is cool too, single handed or two handed depending on the hit ... I suppose.

Samurai, the real ones I mean, use two swords, the smaller one may always be sheathed but it's there waiting to be used, SE couldn't possibly miss that!... :cool:

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

I think the Samurai class should totally use a Bow. Because why not?

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Two Words: Armory System. BRD already has that and apparently all Jobs must have a unique weapon at the core of their identity (or all classes, due to ACN)

What really matters is.... it better have a damn sheath to store it when not fighting... also to make those classic iaido moves and such...

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Two Words: Armory System. BRD already has that and apparently all Jobs must have a unique weapon at the core of their identity (or all classes, due to ACN)

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black mage and white mage are also using literally the same weapon type: a cance.

samurai will use a 2 hander sword, just like dark knight.

they can add a class with the traditional japanese bow like they can add a class with a katana, i see no problem here.

Samurai will not get a bow for the same reason why BLM don't get daggers, BRD doesn't get a flute, DRG doesn't get swords etc. One weapon type per class. The exception is BLM and WHM that get both single and two handed weapons but they've streamlined it in 3.0 and no new 1-handed weapons will be made moving forward for them.

Also, blm and whm use different weapons. WHM 90% of the time uses a wand or staff made from untreated wood. BLM use metal rods that usually have a gem or crystal on them. It was explained in their job quests.

In FF XI, ninja used small katanas. Since they don't here, maybe samurai could use both large and small.

Maybe they could turn the wakizashi into a skill? Rogue/Ninja wield daggers(short sword to be honest), yet they have skills where they throw little daggers, this could also work for the Samurai. I think if we follow FF history then the weapon should be a nodachi, but my inner anime-fanboy wants the normal katana that anime characters wield in combat.

a Naginata

Katana and Bow like a true Samurai (FFXI style).

Maybe even making it shoot mounted!

You guys are so focused in wanting a two handed dps or even a sword dps in general that you forget that Samurai is and always has been Parry and Counter focused, which means Tank, which is where i would like Samurai to be.

If any sword type dps is to be added, please, a Fencer or even Red Mage with rapiers, even i would be happy with just Fencer, it makes more sense than Samurai.

Tbh the question is kinda moot since weapons in FFXIV tend to be fairly oversized, so they would probably be nodachi size regardless of what its supposed to be.

In the end we will get a good amount of fairly differently sized katanas.

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Originally Posted by Ashewalker

You guys are so focused in wanting a two handed dps or even a sword dps in general that you forget that Samurai is and always has been Parry and Counter focused, which means Tank, which is where i would like Samurai to be.

If any sword type dps is to be added, please, a Fencer or even Red Mage with rapiers, even i would be happy with just Fencer, it makes more sense than Samurai.

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But Samurais always were archers on a horse with a katana for melee combat D:

FFXI Samurai was designed to be a tank and ended up being a DPS, and NIN was designed to be a DPS and ended up being a tank.

Yoshi-P already said that was looking for a 2h tank, and decided DRK as tank, so SAM will probably be a DPS.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

But Samurais always were archers on a horse with a katana for melee combat D:

FFXI Samurai was designed to be a tank and ended up being a DPS, and NIN was designed to be a DPS and ended up being a tank.

Yoshi-P already said that was looking for a 2h tank, and decided DRK as tank, so SAM will probably be a DPS.

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Still, it can be another 2h tank, with a diferent weapon and a diferent tanking style, remember that in 4.0 they probably will add another tank dps and healer. although would be nice to see a tank with another type of weapon, there isn't one that would fit, unless you go with beastmaster and that is pet controling... which i do not think it fits the tank role.

And when you said it was designed to be a tank, why do you think that is? It's because in Final Fantasy in general, Samurais are Tanks, to put it as a dps you need to redesign it heavily, and move away from the original idea of a Samurai. And they can use a bow as a non equipable weapon, think of it as a the ranged enmity skill. Like bards, they have a harp which they use for a certain amount of skills, it would not stop a Samurai from using a bow.

Samurai was never designed to be a tank in FFXI, ever. They had 0 tanking skills outside of Third Eye, which was a 30 second cooldown that allowed you to evade a single physical hit. It wasn't for about 5 years after SAM was released that they implemented Seigan and Hasso, the former which enhanced Third Eye to absorb multiple hits. This wasn't to make it a tank, but to provide an answer to 1-handed jobs who used Ninja subjobs. /NIN gave 3 shadows to absorb hits, and then the SAM buffs gave 2-handed jobs an equivalent for the shadows. The only jobs that were intended to be tanks in XI were WAR, PLD, and RUN, but WAR became a DPS and NIN became a tank.

Stop with the SAM tank. YoshiP already said SAM, if implemented, would definitely be a DPS. I doubt he would reneg on that. They won't get a spear or a bow, those exist already as arms for other jobs. Katana has been the premier Samurai weapon in every FF game and XIV will be no different. The only thing that I wonder about though is that attacking from flank or rear is unusual for a Samurai because they're all about fair-and-square combat/bushido honor etc. but all dps have positionals, but rear attacks are not a Samurai's style really.

Looking at past FF games to determine what kind of role Samurai would take doesn't really work (except maybe for XI)... Since pretty much every class would then be a DPS, outside of a few obvious ones like PLD and WHM...

But honestly, the Samurai class from most FF games where it was, it was a damage dealer in heavy armor.

But if you want a DPS class that uses Katanas, I would like to mention from Final Fantasy Tactics A2, the Parivir/Yojimbo class.

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Originally Posted by ChocoFeru

Katana and Bow like a true Samurai (FFXI style).

Maybe even making it shoot mounted!

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Every time this topic comes up, I always suggest a Dexterity based Bow-Samurai... I believe Yoshida said he wanted a more cloth-based Samurai, rather than the old heavy armor set XI saw, and stuff like the Serpent Elite Jerkin and Yasha Dogi of Aiming are perfect fits for Samurai, IMO...

It would also be nice to have a true physical ranged DPS, since both Bard and Machinist have been butchered in the name of having a "support" class... Rather than directional bonuses on combos, Samurai could have ranged based requirements, so you're more mobile than Bard/Machinist, with the combo finishers being flashy katana based attacks at close range... It would have to have a katana of course, no problem though, just work it like Paladin; Bow in the main hand, katana in the offhand... Could also always flip that around and make it a tank with a blade in the main hand and bow offhand, would be a shame to go back to tanks with ranged attacks that make no sense... Would downplay the bow aspect somewhat I guess, and Samurai would end up in VIT gear, unless SE listens to me and starts giving us more freedom with gear and roles... I'd want Blue Mage as a tank then though, wearing the same INT gear as Black Mage and Summoner, that way rather than gearing up a tank and only being able to play tanks at that item level, I can pick between two roles with my gear...

I think my only problem would be that Bard has already gotten Yoichi Bow... Then again, Warrior stole Ragnarok from Dark Knight, and the lore even acknowledges that Ragnarok should have been a great sword... Really have to wonder who OK'd that, given Dark Knight was on the table at the time...

Why not give samurai both, if a tank. Kind of reminds me of this old game Bushido Blade where some characters had a stance that drew out the second weapon, what if tank stance reduced damage slightly and stats of the secondary(like a paladin shield) would get initiated upon drawing that stance. Again though id want them to deal dps damage outside of tank stance because wrecking stuff, that wouldnt happen though probably, or they could keep that same concept even if dps, Traditionally though Final Fantasy Sam always either had both hands attatched to them as a skill or used katana in both regardless.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Stop with the SAM tank. YoshiP already said SAM, if implemented, would definitely be a DPS. I doubt he would reneg on that. They won't get a spear or a bow, those exist already as arms for other jobs. Katana has been the premier Samurai weapon in every FF game and XIV will be no different. The only thing that I wonder about though is that attacking from flank or rear is unusual for a Samurai because they're all about fair-and-square combat/bushido honor etc. but all dps have positionals, but rear attacks are not a Samurai's style really.

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Think of it this way that the Samurai was about stirking the weak spots with their katana rather than direct hits on the armor. Katana was aimed more for hitting vital weak spots in armor due to not being very sturdy when it comes to hitting very hard objects. Fast strikes and quick kills was the best option when fighting with a katana due to their design.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Samurai should use a Yari/Naginata. End of the story.

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The Dragoon job, the Yasha/Asura maiming gear, and the Iwa-toshi weapon would like to have a word with you.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Stop with the SAM tank. YoshiP already said SAM, if implemented, would definitely be a DPS. I doubt he would reneg on that. They won't get a spear or a bow, those exist already as arms for other jobs. Katana has been the premier Samurai weapon in every FF game and XIV will be no different. The only thing that I wonder about though is that attacking from flank or rear is unusual for a Samurai because they're all about fair-and-square combat/bushido honor etc. but all dps have positionals, but rear attacks are not a Samurai's style really.

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(copied from a previous post with the same topic...)
People have said this time and again and repeated as though it were gospel... It's not. Yoshi though a great producer/ director is not the end all beat all voice in the room when it comes to the final decision on Job role allotment. This is my Proof of my statement.
https://youtu.be/VpxsH2rBGuw Final Fantasy XIV PAX East 2015 Heavensward Presentation Stream
(job selection discussion begins at 22:20)

With in the same video link provided above detail is given to the fact that the designing, balancing, implementation of three jobs was both taxing and nightmarish, something that the team did not want to repeat...(24:00-25:45)

It is MY belief that we may only get a total of two jobs those being SAM and RDM, My hope is that SAM will be a Tank something that makes sense due to the fact repeatedly we have had Substantiated reports that both Samurai and Dark Knight were considered for the Tank role i.e. the role was chosen already...(28:27-29:30) After understanding that so much work goes into the addition of one job, to throw away assets already created would only serve to increase their work load, a preposterous idea given that as mentioned above it takes nearly a year from start to finish.

More feasible is the idea that what was shelved for HW will be brought to the forefront in 4.0 (implementation of already created assets for a Samurai tank) the addition of RDM or possibly BLU (either of which would be perfect for the much vaunted, desperately "needed" sword DPS)

Mind you, i can fully respect the idea that i am completely wrong and all of this is simply the mind set of yesteryear, however the fact that the Producer/ Director took the time to explain personally the design process of adding new jobs one would think Fans would take the time quote the man directly rather than "Yoshi said....."

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Stop with the SAM tank. YoshiP already said SAM, if implemented, would definitely be a DPS.

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And I'll say the same to you. Stop spreading false information, the words "definitely" did not come from Yoshi P's mouth. Unfortunately SAM will probably be a DPS and I have my bar set there so I won't be disappointed. There is still a glimmer of hope that it will be a tank for me though, but that's just my opinion.

Anyways here is your sourcerino:

"CGM: Now you and your team have been very responsive to your fans, especially in terms of new classes to release. I understand that there has been much desire among them for the introduction of the Samurai class, but you chose to introduce the Dark Knight instead. How do you anticipate the fans will respond?

NY: With regard to the new jobs, we actually made the first announcement during our fan festivals last year and there was actually a good number of people who were excited to see that the Dark Knight was chosen in the end. There was very positive response, but of course there were people who wanted the Samurai class. But instead of them being disappointed that the samurai wasn’t chosen they were more like ‘so, when is Samurai coming?’

In terms of how fans reacted, it makes me think ‘so if we were to put in a Samurai, how is it going to play into the realm of Final Fantasy XIV? Would it be a tank? But that doesn’t seem to make sense because Samurai seems to be more of a DPS. Or if we were to go in the vein of a tank, wouldn’t it be a Shogun?’ those kind of thoughts start brewing in my head. Then we would look to the fan feedback again and see what the community is asking for; what they’re searching for. What their image of what a Samurai ought to be. And again, play catch a little bit and converse and see what the fan thinks and determine and discern what would work in the realm of XIV. So by having that communication and that thought process and being pretty transparent out there, then the player would understand when we say ‘ok so we’re taking this all into consideration. It does take a while to implement a new job so if you could please wait.’ And then fans will understand: ‘oh, ok. So they are giving it a lot of thought, so I am going to see what’s going to come out of it.’"

http://www.cgmagonline.com/2015/03/1...-with-yoshi-p/

As you can see, Samurai is being given a lot of thought. to the DPS side and Tank side. We will all just have to wait and see, there is no point in arguing over it just because x wants it as DPS and y wants it as Tank.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

Samurai should use a Yari/Naginata. End of the story.

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As of right now it's the weapon of choice for the only Samurai in Hydalen, so maybe?
http://www.4gamer.net/games/278/G027...080/TN/002.jpg

Though i would more want a two handed Nodachi wielding Tank.

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Originally Posted by Ashewalker

You guys are so focused in wanting a two handed dps or even a sword dps in general that you forget that Samurai is and always has been Parry and Counter focused, which means Tank, which is where i would like Samurai to be.

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... No. The only version that is counter attack heavy is the Swordmaster in Bravely Default. Zeninage/Giltoss (throw money for massive damage), Shiradori/Blade Grasp (an evasion boost/parry chance) and Iainuki/Oblivion/Shin-Zantetsu (all target instant kill) are the most commonly recurring abilities for the Samurai.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

... No. The only version that is counter attack heavy is the Swordmaster in Bravely Default. Zeninage/Giltoss (throw money for massive damage), Shiradori/Blade Grasp (an evasion boost/parry chance) and Iainuki/Oblivion/Shin-Zantetsu (all target instant kill) are the most commonly recurring abilities for the Samurai.

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Recurring abilities are one thing, but role and stats wise, Samurai have always been more of a parry-counter class with high counter damage but equally high evasion and parry. And not to mention tactics samurai which is basically a support class.

Only getting two jobs in the new expansion would be a serious disappointment to me honestly.

I rather see them use either a Kusarigama or a Kanabo. We already have DRK running around with giant swords, if they made SAM use long Katanas I could see them sharing designs with DRK, for smaller blades PLD and NIN have them, would be odd if you ask me to have a 4th tank class with just a small blade, a DPS could work but again, I see them sharing models with NIN if that's the case. The Kanabo and Kusarigama are amount some of the weapons that haven't been seen yet in a FF game that I'm aware of.