Fracture on Lv 60 PLD?

After doing some math, it seems like inserting Fracture after every Goring Blade is a small DPS increase, albeit at a much higher TP cost. Is my math solid here?

I imagine it'd be useful on short fights like A5S, or fights with lots of downtime like A8S

http://puu.sh/qZu9j/9e9ec0f92b.png

RA combo is average 233.33 potency per gcd, while fracture is 220. So math-wise shouldn't RA combo win?

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

RA combo is average 233.33 potency per gcd, while fracture is 220. So math-wise shouldn't RA combo win?

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You would be correct, but after someone brought it up to me, I did realize that you clip 1 tick of Goring Blade pretty reliably, maybe even 2 if you have high skill speed. This is 50 potency you're missing out on, and why the second set of potencies ends up slightly higher after a couple Goring Blade rotations. It's the same methodology behind Fracture on MNK, getting 1-2 more ticks of Demolish/ToD is worth the slightly lower potency.

Don't you have anything better to do, like cast stoneskin on people? I bet your healer could do more damage than you're getting from fracture if they didn't have to heal people.

Addendum, a shorter examination with slashing debuff looks like this, a much smaller difference

http://puu.sh/qZAXO/21ef12c865.png

Because of how tiny this difference is, if a NIN was to put up slashing debuff with a higher skill speed and buff the Goring Blade's application hit, using Fracture is then a ppGCD loss. I think it's pretty negligible as is, the TP cost nonwithstanding.

Just done a quick test to see just how much is clipped, and it refreshed on 2 seconds (2.41 GCD), this means, there is still 1 second where you can hit that last tick and get full damage and as you know, this is stronger. Going with the numbers I calculated;

Full Goring Blade Potency = 2420 over 9 GCDs = 268.89
Goring missing one tick, no fracture = 2370 over 9 GCDs = 263.33
Goring missing one tick with Fracture = 2640 over 10 GCDs = 264

So, going back to the first point, technically, there is a 1/3 chance you get the full Goring potency, and 2/3 chance you get the reduced potency, so average them out (268.89 + [2*263.33])/3 = 265.19 Potency per GCD on average, which is still higher than the rotation with Fracture, by 1.85 Potency per GCD. Adding in the slashing debuff and it increases to 2.43 Potency per GCD.

In conclusion then, it is still better, on average, to exclude Fracture from the rotation, unless you know you are missing that tick from Goring Blade (which realistically, noone can do). As for when it will be a potency increase, you effectively need to guarantee you miss that last tick, so you are looking for 21 seconds of Goring Blade, which, divided by 9, gets you to 2.33 GCD needed before fracture is, on average, better than Goring Blade.

It also depends on the fight. Where you cannot get 9 gcds. a5s and a6s. Blaster i can only get 4 gcds this means goring blade and fracture. It always depends on fight.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Blaster i can only get 4 gcds this means goring blade and fracture. It always depends on fight.

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Confused, how are you only getting 4 GCDs on Blaster? Do you mean before you have to go pop a mine?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Confused, how are you only getting 4 GCDs on Blaster? Do you mean before you have to go pop a mine?

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Yup yup yes.

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

It also depends on the fight. Where you cannot get 9 gcds. a5s and a6s. Blaster i can only get 4 gcds this means goring blade and fracture. It always depends on fight.

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You can absolutely get more than 4 GCDs before going to the mine. I always end up almost pushing that 9 GCDs that you can still do after you get the knockback to the boss again. About 6 GCDs or so, mine will spawn and you still have time to do 2 GCDs~ before actually needing to pop the mine before positioning for the Mirage.

Quite confused as to why you mention A5S and A6S not able to get 9 GCDs, the only time when you can't get that 9 GCDs in A5S is when you get concussion-ed. And even then if you pull first, your damage is crap because of the debuff, making RoH combo the best to use with the delayed FoF after he is small. The rest are highly adjustable.

There is almost no real situation to actually using Fracture, except when you are doing Boost in A5S where you want all your dots to tick and possibly the Brawler balls in A6S.

Forgot to edit and take out a5s and a6s we are stilling learning and 4 gcds is safer than doing more for mins

You can get 6 GCDs before going for the mine, easily.

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

There is almost no real situation to actually using Fracture, except when you are doing Boost in A5S where you want all your dots to tick and possibly the Brawler balls in A6S.

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Except every move a Paladin has is stronger potency wise except Fast Blade and Savage Blade, and even then, if you are due to use Savage Blade before you disengage, you should use Riot Blade for more damage for that GCD. Which reduces it to, if your next move is Fast Blade, use Fracture for an extra 70 potency, all other cases and you lose out. So it isn't as simple as, I'm about to disengage, use Fracture.

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Except every move a Paladin has is stronger potency wise except Fast Blade and Savage Blade, and even then, if you are due to use Savage Blade before you disengage, you should use Riot Blade for more damage for that GCD. Which reduces it to, if your next move is Fast Blade, use Fracture for an extra 70 potency, all other cases and you lose out. So it isn't as simple as, I'm about to disengage, use Fracture.

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Well if your going for the mines then unless it takes you longer then 6 seconds I believe? before your combo ends? to trigger them then go back to boss your better keeping your Combo going right?

You can usually keep your combo - unless very bad placement happens. At least half of the time you can use the push from the explosion to jump straight back to the boss and miss only 1-2 GCDs. But as i said before - just finish your combo before going for the mine.

From what I remember, Freacture is only a damage gain if the only next GCD you can throw is either Fast Blade or Fracture and you won't be able to hit for the next 10 seconds. Wich is a rare occurance.

I know you can put more gcds before taking the mine but its better to be safe then do more dps if you are learning the fight that why i said 4 gcds cuz its safer you can put like 6 gcds

Not accounting for TP, Fracture represents a DPS gain for PLD up until level 54, when they get Godmode Goring Blade. At that point, Goring Blade becomes your highest potency-per-GCD combo (even discounting the DoT) and you should spam it in between RoH combos to keep your enmity up. At 54, switch to a different cross-class (if you've even been using it). But up until then, though, if you can work it into your rotation (and let it finish every time without clipping), it will give you a slight boost.

If we count TP? Don't do it. TP isn't usually an issue in more casual content, but in marathon fights, you might find yourself too starved to consider it.

Haven't felt TP issues on PLD outside fights that I Shield Bash since Fast Blade was made 50 TP. And I barely miss TP even on A4S for example, but thats maybe because phases get pushed.

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Haven't felt TP issues on PLD outside fights that I Shield Bash since Fast Blade was made 50 TP. And I barely miss TP even on A4S for example, but thats maybe because phases get pushed.

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I have to agree with you

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

Haven't felt TP issues on PLD outside fights that I Shield Bash since Fast Blade was made 50 TP. And I barely miss TP even on A4S for example, but thats maybe because phases get pushed.

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Only A7S for current one.

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

Only A7S for current one.

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Yeah I have done A7S only a few times as PLD (PLD is not my main) and the group I did with always had TP Promotion at some spots so I haven't felt that.

I have fracture cross classed, but I really only use it whenever I know I'm going to have to walk away from the boss, and after ensuring Goring is already up. So for a5s whenever he's about to boost, i try to get goring out, fracture, and then as much of a RA combo as I can before I really gotta move