Sch Feet question

I've been wondering something. Which is better? the Augmented Hailstorm Boots of Healing or the Yafaemi Boots of Healing for Scholar DPS?

Augmented Hailstorm
81 Mnd
51 Piety
69 Spell Speed

Yafaemi
75 Mnd
49 Piety
65 Crit

For most things which armor you pick is obvious, but is it worth trading off 6 Mind and 69 Spell Speed for 65 Crit? (I have a high crit and spell speed build)

It'd be nice if Scholar stat weights were worked out a little bit more accurately than they currently are, but perhaps someone here has done the math before themselves.

I'm thinking that the 6 mind on the augmented will push those ahead since the stat weight for crit would have to be like .1 higher than spell speed to be worth it, but maybe it is? (I wouldn't think it would be since crit and spell speed aren't even .1 apart on Summoner and Crit is way more valuable on Smn and Spell Speed is relatively better on Sch. Those Crit Aldos though =3)

Spell speed isn't a poor choice as a secondary stat, especially if it comes with mind. I chose the augmented hailstorm over the savage and weeping equivalent. If it was det piety, like the savage counterpart, i would have went with the weeping shoes.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

http://i67.tinypic.com/2ir2fy8.jpg

240- Word of the Magnate (120 Accuracy/120 Crit-Relic)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Crown of Healing (Lore)
230- Yafaemi Jacket of Healing (WCM) (Until A8S Top)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Gloves of Healing (Lore)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Belt of Healing (Lore)
240- Augmented Hailstorm Bottoms of Healing (Lore)
240- Hailstorm Boots of Healing (Lore)

240- Midan Neckband of Healing (A5s)
240- Midan Earrings of Healing (A5s)
240- Midan Bracelets of Healing (A5s)
240- Midan Ring of Healing (a5s) [Decrease piety loss, while increasing mind)
240- Augmented Primal Ring of Healing

9 Slots have accuracy Vs (+108 +120+354 makes accuracy 582. Good for most content and can cap for a8s with pipira at 599 accuracy.) 7 Slots of Crit Vs.


NOTE: When level syncing, in places such as Athereochemical Research Facility where you are ilevel synced, therefore losing materia, your Relic WILL retain its accuracy. Which means we shouldnt have accuracy issues going into synced content anymore.

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Gonna switch to Savage pants this week to be over 13k mp and the crit boost. I feel like the piety actually outweighs determination in this case.

I don't know but I prefer all of my stats is crit. If I use the yafaemi boots it gives me over 1k crit lol.

Preference. I love crit, and am more than happy to give up a few points in mind if it gives me a lot of crit (more crit adlos is more healing/shielding done than those mind points would have given you, anyway, just downside is it's RNG).

The question is, is the loss of MND worth getting those CRIT points, and no one can really say. I went with Yafaemi feet and I'm currently running with 1214 (I think) CRIT on my SCH. My DPS crit on our last Hummelfaust kill (2 min) was 28% (we had a DRG) and on A5S boss (6 min) 25%.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Spell speed isn't a poor choice as a secondary stat, especially if it comes with mind.

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Yes it is, and especially for a SCH.

I don't think spellspeed is a bad stat for a sch
Because all his dps is based on DoT which is boost by spellspeed

And when crit is random spellspeed is not (adding that some extra broil)

Plus... Bonus mind mean all adlo are boost
When crit only boost critadlo

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

I don't think spellspeed is a bad stat for a sch
Because all his dps is based on DoT which is boost by spellspeed

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DET boosts DoTs more than SpS, and CRIT is likely to boost them even more (but this isn't known for sure as far as I know).

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

And when crit is random spellspeed is not (adding that some extra broil)

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Quoting myself from the link you obviously didn't even open before replying:

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Originally Posted by Taika

Comparing a healer with 600 SpS and 1000 SpS, the latter is able to squeeze in an extra cast only if they cast 15 spells in a row without any breaks or movement (16th cast would be the extra one, and it requires 36 seconds of straight casting without any breaks). Even in this situation SpS is only the stronger choise if that 16th cast from the SpS healer would be worth more than the bonuses the non-SpS healer would gain from Crit / Det on all the 15 casts combined (if the 16 casts from SpS healer would result in more healing / damage points than the 15 casts from Crit/Det healer). It's not currently known if that's the case.

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Adding to CRIT will add your crit chance by certain % (which I don't have a source for), so while it's random in the sense that a single cast may or may not crit, increasing your CRIT stat will add to your CRIT % by certain amount.

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

Plus... Bonus mind mean all adlo are boost
When crit only boost critadlo

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MND does boost everything, yes, but so does CRIT (it affects your entire CRIT rate for all heal and DPS casts and DoT ticks). For SCH the real question (already brought up in the OP) is if the gained crit shields are worth the lost MND, and if boost from CRIT is more significant than the boost gained from MND + other secondary stat combined, which is hard to tell.

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Originally Posted by Taika

MND does boost everything, yes, but so does CRIT (it affects your entire CRIT rate for all heal and DPS casts and DoT ticks). For SCH the real question (already brought up in the OP) is if the gained crit shields are worth the lost MND, and if boost from CRIT is more significant than the boost gained from MND + other secondary stat combined, which is hard to tell.

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The answer to that question is different for every fight. The end result is that you could make a different BiS for every turn if you wanted, but most people just go with the highest item level gear with a vague preference for crit because SCH/healer secondary stats aren't critical the way spellspeed is for a BLM, for example.

I did read the post from AST anima
The thing is i do not forcefully agree with everything

While I agree on détermination which is always a gain

Crit seems good only if it happends which is so random
You can have fight with shit ton of crit happening while having non on the next fight

Right now most people tend to aim 1000+ crit which give 20/21% rate of crit
Doesn't mean every 5 spell you Will have a crit one

It's also true that crit benefit strongly to DoT because it's tick have indépendant crit chance
But deter and spellspeed enhance them permanently (less i admit) but it's more sure

In the OP case
He might lose 1 or 2% of crit rate depending how much he had
But the mind benefit is way better overall in fight

....

I was an all crit sch before
But changed because adding more and more crit wasn't helping in the end... And to have lots of crit i did needed 220 stuff
And 240 stuff is good...

And also i switch to ast which a lot of fun and crit is not that needed for ast

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Originally Posted by Taika

DET boosts DoTs more than SpS, and CRIT is likely to boost them even more (but this isn't known for sure as far as I know).


Quoting myself from the link you obviously didn't even open before replying:

Adding to CRIT will add your crit chance by certain % (which I don't have a source for), so while it's random in the sense that a single cast may or may not crit, increasing your CRIT stat will add to your CRIT % by certain amount.

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Det is bad on sch. :] (Could be wrong, was pro-det, but some self testing pointed me towards ss.)

If your choice is crit vs ss, go crit. If it's crit vs ss + mind, ss + mind is a fair option.

There's no way Det is better than SS on Scholar. Det and SS essentially boost DoTs by the same amount, but SS ALSO decreases your GCD.

SS isn't only useful if the fight goes on long enough to fit in an entire GCD, but also helps in scoring the finishing blow.

Even if the fight doesn't go on long enough to add another whole GCD even if the spell speed person is half a GCD faster that means he has a 50% chance of finishing one more broil over the person without spell speed. Over time being able to finish that one last broil 50% more often will increase your damage by 50% of a GCD so even if a fight doesn't go on long enough to fit in an entire extra GCD SS will still statistically increase your DOT

This also applies to moving and escaping from AoEs. The higher your spell speed the higher chance that you'll be able to finish your current cast before you have to move vs someone without spell speed.

When a person with higher spell speed will be able to get off more Broils than the person without Spell speed because the person without SS will either have a higher chance of needing to interrupt his cast or have his last GCD be a Ruin II instead of a Broil because you don't have enough time to start and finish another cast spell speed is going to obliterate Det especially since so much of Scholar's kit is also boosted by spell speed with their large numbers of DoTs.

(And there's a good chance that SS affects DoTs more than DET. The number you linked was for Whms. For Smn Det only affects them by .0001238 [ https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/damag...er-mechanics/] )

Also you have to keep in mind other things such as the person with the higher Spell Speed will be able to Bane faster which is a pretty big deal especially with DPS happy groups that have the potential to kill a pack of mobs before your DoTs even expire.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

There's no way Det is better than SS on Scholar. Det and SS essentially boost DoTs by the same amount, but SS ALSO decreases your GCD.

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And DET also boosts your healing and damage power. Without stat weights we can't know which is objectively better. All we know is that both are worse than CRIT.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

SS isn't only useful if the fight goes on long enough to fit in an entire GCD, but also helps in scoring the finishing blow.

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Even in situations where SS helps you fit an extra GCD it may not be more powerful (since the -1 casts with crit / det may be more powerful than the +1 casts with spellspeed). Again, we don't know. As for the difference in casting speed, it is so minor that it's not credible for most of the players to play on a level where 150ms difference makes an actual difference in their playing. Same goes for movement.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

(And there's a good chance that SS affects DoTs more than DET. The number you linked was for Whms. For Smn Det only affects them by .0001238 [ https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/damag...er-mechanics/] )

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That's actually a good point I didn't consider, if the effect of DET on DoTs / HoTs is calculated differently for different jobs, although I'm not sure if that's really the case? Since it seems the effect of spellspeed / skillpeed on DoTs is the same (for skillspeed ((SS-354)/7722+1)) for all jobs? I'll try to find more info on this, I assumed they work the same for each job.

(Edit: Now I get it, even if it's calculated the same, placing it in the job's damage formula makes the weights different :) Monday brain... But yeah, since we don't know SCH statweights this seems to be another question left unanswered. For WHM DET boosts DoTs and HoTs more than SpS, at least, but it may be different for SCH and AST).

There's more to weights that just how the damage is calculated. Like, it's not like by essence of the formula that Crit is weighted high for Archer. It's not like they get 3x as much crit by point than everyone else, but because whenever their DoTs crit it resets their bloodletter timer.

The reason I highly suspect that SS is higher than Det for Sch is because they are already pretty close for Smn, but Smn has a crap ton of stuff that isn't affected by SS like Fester, Painflare, Deathflare, ect. While for Scholar the only thing that isn't affected by SS is Energy Drain, AND they have an additional DoT with Aero over Smn.

Presuming that Det scales the same for Smn and Sch just due to how Det would not as valuable to a Sch with a ton less oGCDs and SS will be more valuable with the extra DoT, and how they were already somewhat close for Smn I really doubt that Det would be better for Sch than SS.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

The reason I highly suspect that SS is higher than Det for Sch is because they are already pretty close for Smn, but Smn has a crap ton of stuff that isn't affected by SS like Fester, Painflare, Deathflare, ect. While for Scholar the only thing that isn't affected by SS is Energy Drain, AND they have an additional DoT with Aero over Smn.

Presuming that Det scales the same for Smn and Sch just due to how Det would not as valuable to a Sch with a ton less oGCDs and SS will be more valuable with the extra DoT, and how they were already somewhat close for Smn I really doubt that Det would be better for Sch than SS.

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Yeah, that makes sense. I just wish someone would do the testing. :)

I'll also point out a little remembered tidbit, that scholars get spell speed procs based on fairy crit rate, and the fairy inherits your crit chance.
(20% chance when pet crits to get 20% spell speed bonus). I'm fairly certain that most stat weights for sch and smn fail to take this into account. The more crit you have, the more often you'll get this proc, and the more speed you have, the more you'll get when it does. The more speed you have, the more useful speed becomes, but I don't like playing scholar that way.

Personally, I prioritize crit, and have 1.2k crit along with enough accuracy. This gives me roughly around 25% crit chance (usually a little higher), which I find far more useful for both healing and dpsing. While I don't prioritize my gear for personal dps, I'd estimate that its still pretty close to optimal, while the benefit of giving both healers time to keep their dots up is worth more than having more time to spam broil, and frequent crit adlo does just that. group dps is all that really matters anyway.

That said, if all you want is optimal dps from a scholar, mind is generally worth more than 6x any substat for raw dps.

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Originally Posted by Tashim

I'll also point out a little remembered tidbit, that scholars get spell speed procs based on fairy crit rate, and the fairy inherits your crit chance.

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Yes!! This is why Crit is so great on Scholar! Even if you don't get a Crit Adlo all the time, remember that we are indirectly casting a spell every 3 seconds. An Embrace Crit is pretty powerful, specially when it's Roused, and getting frequent Embrace crits means that you'll have more time to sit on Cleric because you're helping the main healer more if you're the off-healer. When you're the only healer, it usually means you get to stay in Cleric more anyways lmao.

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Originally Posted by Tashim

and the fairy inherits your crit chance.

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Well, your crit rate -.5%