Red Mage is hyped for all of the roles, due to it's hybrid nature, but as it's said to use both black and white magic,
I think it fits best as healer. And because I love designing stuff, I decided to take a shot at designing this job as a healer.
Note that I haven't played other FF games besides this one (although I certainly plan to do in the future), so all my impressions of RDM have been from reading other resources, which can be quite limiting. I do think I managed to fit in the signature concepts of a RDM, but some of the ability names could be a bit random.
Anyway, I've designed this job with a melee/range hybrid style of play (and I have no idea whether it'll work or not). It's also intended to mainly fill the SCH slot. But I don't give it constant access to shields, but rather have those locked behind a short cooldown of 15s (they are all instant cast and cost no MP).
It's currently in an early state, so numbers are probably imbalanced, and some of the
ideas aren't thought out in depth. Because of this I also have not decided on the costs of abilities.
Cross Class:
- Thaumaturge (will also have Scathe and Sleep)
- Arcanist (will also have Miasma as cross-class ability)
Buff effects
Spells/AbilitiesCode:Name Description
Enfire Sets Attack Power equal to Attack Magic Potency
and increases potency of spells by 10%.
* indicates it's gated behind a job quest.
I put additional comments between ( ).
Traits:Code:Lv Name Range Cast Cooldown Cost Description
1 Flame 25y 3s 2.5s Deals fire damage with a potency of 120
Additional Effect: Grants Enfire for 10s.
2 Mend 25y 2s 2.5s Cure potency: 400
4 Quick Slash 3y - 2.5s Slashing damage with a potency of 140
6 Combat Stance - - 5s Swaps INT and MND attributes while increasing Attack Speed by 10% and reducing Healing Magic by 25%.
8 Quick Stab 3y - 2.5s Piercing damage with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Quick Slash
Combo Potency: 130
Combo Effect: Damage over time with a potency of 30 for 21s.
10 Mend II 25y 2.5s 2.5s AoE Cure potency: 250
Additional Effect: Regen with a potency of 50 for 9s.
12 Ward 30y 3s 2.5s Increases physical and magic defence. Does not stack with Protect.
15 Cut 3y - 60s Slashing damage with a potency of 100. Silence for 2s.
18 Revive 25y 8s 2.5s Ressurects target to a weakened state. Can be used in combat.
22 Clear 25y 1s 2.5s Removes a single detrimental effect from the target.
26 Flame II 25y 3s 2.5s Deals fire damage with a potency of 180
Increases remaining duration of Enfire by 5s with a maximum of 10s.
(that maximum increases later on)
30 Quake 10y 1s 2.5s Deals AoE damage with a potency of 120
Additional Effect: 40% Heavy
(animation is stabbing the rapier into the ground)
30* Enliven 25y - 15s Applies a regen effect on a target with a potency of 150 for indefinite duration.
This regen is unaffected by Combat Stance and is not snap-shotted.
Removed on re-use or when the target moves out of range.
Requires: Enfire, reduces remaining duration by 10s.
(at this level, that means it falls off right away)
34 Manafield 25y - 15s Cure Potency: 150
Applies a damage preventing shield reducing 300% the amount healed.
Does not stack with Galvanize and Nocturnal Field.
35* Integro - - 5s Cancels Enliven status to restore MP.
38 Dust Storm 10y - 2.5s Deals physical AoE damage with a potency of 80.
Combo Action: Quake
Combo Potency: 160
40* Astral Field 25y - 15s AoE Cure Potency: 100
Applies a damage preventing shield reducing damage by twice the amount healed.
Does not stack with Galvanaize and Nocturnal Field.
42 Astral Energy - - 60s Restores 250 TP and 10% MP and increases Healing potency by 20%.
Healing potency buff will also apply to party members
within 5y range of you. 20s Duration.
45* Dualcast - - 90s Next spell is instant cast and will not trigger the recast timer.
46 Enfeeble 25y - 90s Reduces target's INT and MND by 15%.
50 Umbral Field 25y - 30s Creates an area around yourself that reduces incoming damage by 10%
(like a self-target macro'd sacred soil, not like CU)
50* Healing Gift 25y - 5s Sacrifice 20% HP to heal the target with a potency of 600.
52* Flame III 25y 3s 2.5s Deals fire damage with a potency of 250.
Requires Enfire, reduces the remaining duration of Enfire by 10s.
54* Manaburst 25y - 30s AoE Cure Potency: 350
Damage Potency: 150
This ability has a 10% increased chance to critically heal/hit.
56* Remedy 25y 3s 60s AoE Heal over time with a potency of 120 for 18s.
Additional Effect: removes a single detrimental effect.
58* Flame Slash 3y - 2.5s Slashing damage with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Quick Slash
Combo Potency: 230
Increases remaining Enfire Duration by 7s.
60* Astral Alignment 25y - 120s Doubles the potency of your next Astral Field or Manaburst. (10s duration)
Changelog:Code:8 Enhanced Mind Increases Mind by 2
14 Enhanced Mind II Increases Mind by 4.
16 Enhanced Flame Decreases cast time of Flame by 0.5s
20 Maim and Mend Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 10%.
24 Enhanced Mind III Increases Mind by 6.
28 Mending Expert Increases critical heal chance of Mend by 15%.
32 To the Front Increases melee damage by 10%.
36 Enfired Soul Increases the maximum duration of Enfire to 20s.
40 Maim and Mend II Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 30%.
44 Enhanced Cut Reduces cooldown of Cut by 30s.
48 Flaming Earth 15% chance that Quake increases the duration of Enfire by 10s.
Code:- Astral Field Potency: 150 -> 100
- Added Scathe and Sleep as cross-class options from THM
To balance Flame Slash combo with Flame II/III
- Flame Slash potency: 160 -> 230
- Flame II Enfire duration: +10s -> +5s
- Flame Slash Enfire duration: +10s -> +7s
- Increased potency of Quick Stab DoT to 30, and duration to 21s (wanted to make a trait for it at first, then forgot, but it's needed to make it actually worth using).
Red mage healer
Printable View
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09-02-2016, 12:32 AMVulcwenRed mage healer
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09-02-2016, 01:03 AMFevelle
700 potency Manaburst with a chance to crit into 1050 potency, every 2 minutes? WANT
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09-02-2016, 01:14 AMADVSS
just curious why you went acn and not cnj for cc, but it seems pretty good for a healer rendition of the job
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09-02-2016, 02:21 AMVulcwenI wanted it to have access to virus/e4e and swiftcast, and went from there basically.. I did notice that ACN/THM would be a bit lacking in abilities to choose, so opened up miasma as well (single target heavy and an extra DoT).. I'm thinking to open up Sleep/Scathe from THM as well, meaning probably the meta would be Virus, E4E, Swiftcast, Miasma, Scathe (and sleep instead of E4E for pvp).Quote:
Originally Posted by ADVSS
Because of this, the job would be able to make a distinction between physical and magical mitigation, which can be up at different times (and would for magic damage not suffer from other jobs putting up the immunity at the wrong time).
I think I need to nerf Astral Field a bit tho.. 300 potency shield that can be doubled on demand is OP :P, so I think I'll nerf it down to 100 heal potency (200 pot shield, 400 with Astral Alignment). -
09-02-2016, 02:31 AMADVSSI see, not sure what the potency difference in aero is compared to miasma, but it would be an option, as well as stoneskin/protect. Though I get why youd go acn instead for that reason. RDM classically had the white magic and black magic command, though it didnt go up to the higher levels like flare, holy - but you seem to have a grasp of it without having played older iterations of the series when reading these ideas threads i dont really pay too much attention to potencies cause they can always be adjusted honestlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Vulcwen
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09-02-2016, 02:36 AMRawrz
Miasma is 300. Aero is 200.
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09-02-2016, 03:39 AMAshelia_Ferron
So you don't get Protect or Cleric Stance....
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09-02-2016, 04:27 AMVulcwenYep, hence I introduced replacements for it (Ward, which does the same as protect), and Combat Stance, which is like cleric, but gives a speed bonus instead of damage bonus aside from swapping stats. Those 2 were critical abilities, so needed some kind of replacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron
Also, I just did some changes for balancing, as the 2-step melee combos were weak, so buffed the finishers..
Something I'm not sure about is whether spells should interrupt combos (aside from Quake, which should as it's the AoE combo starter). I kinda don't want that tripple Flame 3 is possible as that is some OP ST burst for a healer, but it would if it's not interrupted. Could also make it that only heals don't interrupt, while all damaging spells do interrupt. -
09-02-2016, 04:30 AMOrdoric
a healer with a sword?
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09-02-2016, 06:41 AMValknutHave you never seen a Red mage before? Cause they have all had swords, some times x2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ordoric
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09-02-2016, 01:03 PMGemina
Big fan of RDM since Final Fantasy I. I believe other fans of the lore would agree that there are three principles that lay down the foundation for the job. 1. RDM can cast white magic. 2. RDM can cast black magic. 3. RDM wields a sword/rapier. It looks like you got the three principles covered. That being said, it is very interesting that you've given this healer two DPS classes as its crosses. I don't see an issue with it though so long as it has innate abilities that are mandatory from CNJ. What this does though is makes it potentially fill the WHM slot, not SCH. What I like about this is the potential to balance and complement AST much like WHM/SCH.
One issue I see is Scathe is a level 15 class quested ability. Like Fluid Aura and Aetherflow, it is very exclusive to the class. Thauma's are an unstable and destructive lot, and I think it best not to ruffle their feathers :p Giving RDM Swiftcast, Thunder, and Blizz 2 will do wonders. But I would practically play this job for Remedy alone. AoE regen and cleanse? HOMG, give me now! -
09-02-2016, 04:12 PMSimpicity4. RDM isn't as powerful as WHM BLM Melee and only has access to the lower tier of BLM WHM spell set.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
5. Only in XI via the subjob system and exceptional gear and strategy was it able to accomplish amazing solo capabilities. -
09-02-2016, 05:45 PMNekotee
This idea look sickly good !
Only some point i'm confused with :
1) cast time of 3sec... That's as long as some Blm highest tier spell usually it's 2.5 sec cast
2)so half skill are physical skill... How are we gonna damage since our main stat seems to be mind and int as sub, you need str to do melee action
3) only Fire element ? (Ok kinda earth too) it's my least favorite XD i prefer ice and thunder... > I do understand that you can't put EVERY 6 element in here...
...
Anyway love the style looks very fun to play
Fit right into my way of healing (full time dps and giving out regen when needed) -
09-02-2016, 06:25 PMADVSSstr only applies to weapons with physical damage and auto attacks from weapons in general(im pretty sure, but ive been wrong before), nothing stopping them from getting a magic damage weapon(which would have made paladins cure at least double its current potency btw) and or aving their attack stat mnd or int(if the str thing applied to all melee, how do you think nin could even hurt anything)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
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09-02-2016, 06:35 PMVulcwen
To give an answer to the melee damage question, I already considered that and basically put INT-scaling on the Enfire buff. That Enfire buff is basically the core management mechanic of this job, where sch has aetherflow to deal with. You kinda want to keep Enfire up so you can do melee damage, but you can also sacrifice it for some healing or extra damage (flame 3).. if you drop it, you are just a single Flame cast away from putting it back up.. so it's not as strict as the timer mechanics for DPS classes, but it's something to play with and puts some depth in the job.
Also, Flame (only the first version) has a trait at lvl 16 that brings the cast time to 2.5s.. -
09-02-2016, 06:52 PMNekotee
@ADVSS
All weapon are tied to str or Dex (you're right Dex apply to physical ranged and nin)
And weaponskill are bound to the weapon so str/Dex need
The rapier would also be a slash/piercing weapon, scale on int... Hum yeah i don't see it but maybe why not !
...
My bad i missed the flame trait
Which apply to all tier ? Or only the first one ? -
09-02-2016, 07:06 PMRinion
Looks kinda interesting =D I love RDMs and so I like looking at these RDM job idea threads ^.^
One question though. There's only 1 single target heal?
I've probably missed something, but just making sure =) -
09-02-2016, 07:14 PMADVSSyes thats true i cannot think of a easy roundabout for auto attack modification, but apparently this applies to the OP enfire/buffs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nekotee
One thing that confuses me, off topic is what damage type ast auto attacks are listed as, apparently any debuff we placed on a dummy didnt change the damages to those...but still, you are right. -
09-03-2016, 10:04 AMGeminaI was only referring to the ability to cast these types of magicks, not their potency. But you are correct, they are not as restorative or destructive as their whm/blm co-casters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpicity
When I was playing XI, RDM had enough of it's own natural skill to survive a great deal. The Maat fight to raise the old level cap from 70-75 is a great testament to this. Your SJ is disabled for this fight, plus Maat fights dirty. It was known as one of the hardest level cap instances in the game, and I knew several RDMs who hung it up because they couldn't clear it. I subbed a number of jobs with RDM including BLM, WHM, PLD, DRK, NIN, and SMN. All of them added to RDMs ability to survive, not create it. Just depends on your preference for survival: More MP, more defense, stronger heals, more attack power, etc. -
09-05-2016, 07:10 AMFile2ish
I love these red mage ideas, I just want the job in the game regardless of what role it will play though. Healer or DPS would be my preferred
It was THE hardest Maat fight. I started FFXI fairly late (when WotG was coming out), and I ended up dropping Red Mage for Dancer when I learned of the Maat fight (and some other reasons, like being a relegated to haste/refresh ONLY bot). Some parties wouldn't accept you if you didn't just heal/haste/refresh and would get mad if you did anything else (wouldn't let me skill up elemental...). Dancer was far less stressful lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
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09-05-2016, 08:11 AMAmaya-Asha
when I see redmage as healer I get the same rage :mad:I felt in my old ffxi days. Refresh, Haste, Heal >< traded in my rapier for staffs tons of HQ back during lv75 cap max days. Only to spend like a month living up my sword skill for Maat fight. Cleared Maat fight on redmage went back to my staff collection and Refresh,haste and heal. loved when i played with my ls to do more then default healer later on switched to bard..ok rant over..
I want Redamge as Dps that can toss a heal/raise when the party is in a pinch. i really hope i like what they do when redmage is added.
:will still try it as a pure healer class
update: After some thought I enjoy dps on my whitemage..so maybe what i want is redmage to play more like white mage is now but heavier on the dps side.. does that even make sense:confused:. -
09-05-2016, 05:43 PMNekoteeThat's actually the definition of all off-healer (and good main healer)Quote:
Originally Posted by Amaya-Asha
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09-05-2016, 05:51 PMADVSSQuote:
Originally Posted by Amaya-Asha
You and me both, at least this healer design allows a bit of it, but ultimately id like to see the same as you -
09-06-2016, 01:54 AMGeminaYeah it was pretty nuts. Players advising other players to fight him on Windsday so your Aero 3 would hit for the most and other silly things like that. What it really comes down to is Maat lets you win, because he can end the fight anytime he wants to. In all honesty, it is a fight against RNGesus, a DPS check, and a heal check.Quote:
Originally Posted by File2ish
RDMs weren't always bots. A couple patches prior to your arrival the ABC rule was heavy with them. Then along came ToAU and TP burn parties, and RDM was reduced to a shadow of what it once was. Today's SCH reminds me of yesterday's RDM. I hope the devs have learned. -
09-06-2016, 05:17 AMSidra
Because of the game's reliance on healers dpsing, I think it will be interesting to see how the game eventually does incorporate red mage - since the existing healers all already sort of play like a stereotypical red mage would. I do wonder how they will differentiate it.
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09-06-2016, 05:47 AMMasekase_Hurricane
I would be gutted if it just became the RDM healer of FFXI. It was the most disappointing job out of them all, don't get me wrong I was main RDM I just levelled it on the notion that it was a hybrid job.
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09-11-2016, 12:54 AMEloah
Having more ideas out there for future jobs is good, and you've done a good job laying a basis. But there are some issues I've noticed.
First, is to not go beyond what the game has already established. Having RDM use THM and ACN as a cross-classes is fine, but I wouldn't add the additional spells. You stated that the reason you didn't add CNJ as a cross-class was because you wanted Virus and E4E. But the debuffs those skills offer can be built into other skills; similar to how AST got Disable. You created shield-like abilities and E4E effect could be incorporated into those. Additionally you made Enfeeble, to cover up the lack of Super Virus, why not just make another all inclusive skill?
The second thing I noticed was the potencies, and some durations, you have listed are all a bit odd. The Quick Slash into Quick Stab combo the combo potency is less than the initial skills potency, DoT aside, since that should not count toward the total potency; look at Goring Blade as an example.
The last thing I noticed was the Enfire effect you created. While the effect seems good, it looks like you are trying to combine and create a system that either combines THM Astral Fire with either a ninjas Huton or PUG Greased Lightning stacks. If its the Huton effect then the duration for Enfire is too short. If its the Greased Lightning effect then the duration might be okay but you need more skills to increase or refresh the duration. It might be better to make it similar to the DRG Blood of the Dragon skill. a buff that can be refreshed if it falls off, but can be refreshed when a combo finishes. this might help encourage skill swapping between magic and melee; the melee skills could extend the duration and then magic "fire" spells could cost some of the duration to cast instead of actual MP, saving MP for healing. But at the same time you can't make the DPS so complicated since their primary role is healing.
Also, this is just a personal preference, but I would suggest changing Enfire's name, limiting RDM magic to just fire spells feels a bit odd. I am aware of the Quake spells you have too, though. -
09-13-2016, 12:15 AMVulcwen
Alright, some good feedback here. Gonna put up a wall of text with more recent thoughts :P
Making certain skills cross-classable would indeed be outside the current design, so there would have to be some changes
to get it fit the current design. Additionally, it seems that not having CNJ seems to be a thematic conflict, so I'd be willing to put it in,
however, I do also realize that many abilties are more BLM inspired than WHM inspired, meaning it might be a good
option to replace THM with CNJ, rather than replacing ACN. Considering I gave dualcast already some swiftcast-like behaviour, adjusting it
a bit would allow for missing swiftcast. With cleric/protect we no longer need to have combat stance/ward, so we can bring in
2 more skills. Further, blizzard 2 would be useless anyway due to this job's AoE abilities.
The 2 new abilities would have to fill the gaps that are filled by the extra cross-class abilities at this point:
Instant ranged attack (they do get one with aero, but a plain damage attack would be welcome)
Ranged ST heavy
A potent DoT spell.
So I propose this:
Spark: 100 potency damage, instant cast.
Banish: 30 potency DoT for 21s, 40% Heavy, 2.5s cast.
It adds a bit more elemental variety and an ability that would be considered white magic.
Additionally, swapping out Combat Stance for Cleric, would mean losing 10% speed and gaining 10% damage, I'd not like to
change this, so I'd put the speed buff on Enfire instead. Doing this would be a slight buff to healing overall.
Further, to consider the combo potencies.. I did not actually notice that pattern, but I think that the important
part is to balance the total potency per gcd of the entire combo, rather than just the finisher. I did not calculate it through, as it'd be a lot of work.
I actually just did a bit of it, and decided it was way too much work. Things need to be balanced, but also potential complexities that come with the nature of
melee DPS, like auto-attack timings/potency, and how tooltips will be interpreted by the general playerbase is something that makes potency balancing not an easy job.
On the topic of Enfire mechanics..it's inspired by Astral Fire and Blood of the Dragon,
I like the idea of treating time on a buff as a resource, and by making it easy to apply like Astral Fire, it's not as punishing as BotD.
The desired rotation at level 50 involves getting enfire up, putting up DoTs, and fill with Flame 2.
At level 60 it involves filling with Flame Slash combo instead and using Flame 3 to cash out some excess Enfire duration.
Flame 2 would be used if you have to stay at range, or to more quickly build up Enfire duration.
Involving healing in this, I think the way Enliven works atm might be a bit annoying, and would encourage players to keep the regen on the tank between pulls, so I'd take away the Enfire consumption of that. Instead I'll put that consumption mechanic on the shields the job can provide. -
09-20-2016, 04:42 AMbardaboo
What i want to see with rdm is them making use of the elemental resistance. Lowering a mobs resistance and putting en-spells on the dps. Whether they are heal or dps i dun care too much. But... do we really need another support dps? Maybe... i dunno