Monk in Raids?

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08-28-2016, 01:45 PM
Bloopan

Monk in Raids?

How are monks in the raiding scene? so far Im in one of the most populated servers (last I checked) but Ive never seen any raiding grps recruiting them
08-28-2016, 01:55 PM
saobuks

Monks suck.
08-28-2016, 02:11 PM
Cabalabob

Since DRK came on the scene and took away a piece of MNKs very little raid utility (INT down) it's not very desirable since all it offers over other dps is enhanced mantra. It fits best in a group with a PLD/WAR setup which unfortunately is very rare since PLD also got kicked to the curb by DRK for its higher dps. So MNK is more of a B team job at the moment, best advice, find yourself a PLD friend and go sit on the street with a "will dance for raid" sign.
08-29-2016, 12:43 AM
HoLoFoNo

If you want your static to have a high dps representing member for fflogs, and don't have a foe'd BLM, mnks are pretty good. They don't suck dps wise, but they only dps for themselves. So even if they are like top on everything, that's the extent of their party dps contribution. Mantra and dk are kinda nice though with no drk.
08-29-2016, 01:03 AM
Elleia

A NIN/DRG combo is typically the most desired due to the party utility they bring (trick attack, goad, and shadewalker for NIN, disembowel and battle litany for DRG). Dragon kick used to be a MNKs main contribution to utility, but delirium on DRK now does the same thing, leaving MNKs with enhanced mantra as their main selling point. They do more individual DPS than the other two melees when played optimally, but don't buff overall raid DPS as the other two do.

Regardless, I would say a really good MNK is better than an okay NIN/DRG, and I would keep looking around for a group if I were you. If you are skilled at your class and you are competent when it comes to raid mechanics, finding a group shouldn't be too hard.
08-29-2016, 01:06 AM
Myon88

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoLoFoNo

If you want your static to have a high dps representing member for fflogs, and don't have a foe'd BLM, mnks are pretty good.

The MNK will be competing against other MNKs though, since the only important metric is intra-class percentile ranking and not raw DPS numbers. A ~1800 MNK might look good against a ~1600 NIN, but it doesn't tell you much since each job has different roles.

In fact if you really want your static to perform well on rankings, you need DRG and NIN (+MCH) even more, since they all synergize and buff each other.
08-29-2016, 05:56 AM
Bloopan

So a rework on some skills might be needed then, I can see SE trying to make the effort to make the class viable to the raiding scene with all the changes/buffs but it just pales into comparison with utilities to the other 2 melee.

In a game where it emphasizes mechanics over numbers, I can see why MNK is in an awkward spot right now
08-29-2016, 08:53 PM
Krindor

MNK is as viable as the other two classes. In this raid tier the amount of world first for each melee DPS is 2 for MNK 4 for NIN and 2 for DRG. Both A7 and A8 was cleared with MNK/NIN. Anyone saying that MNK is in a bad spot or that it isn't viable really doesn't know how raiding works. To add on. Looking at A8S statistics we get that MNK is on average ahead of NIN by 100 DPS and DRG by 70, TA gives a 1.3% so with a party with a raid wide DPS of 8k, that's 104. So a MNK can carry the loss of Raid DPS by itself, now NIN brings a lot of other stuff to the party so it's usually the top pick amongs melee DPS. As for DRG it's BL 1.3% + Piercing 98 = 202. 130 ahead of MNK but no utility. The most important thing for raid progress is utility. Compared to Gordias this tier PLD is more viable and therefore used a lot more leading to DK being useful. Adding traited mantra and MNK is a really good progression class. So basically what you're trading is 130 for 10% damage reduction and 30% healing increase during healing intensive parts. This tier DPS checks aren't as tight so the additional DPS from going with a DRG isn't more useful for anything other than FF logs which is shown as a MNK was used for the world firsts.
08-29-2016, 09:59 PM
MiracleBob

Well, Delirium and DK don't do the same thing ;) so there is a little bitte more utility :P
08-29-2016, 11:06 PM
Rawrz

I'm in a war/pally static. I love our dragon kicking monk. :] Plus in a7s on top of dragon kick he takes almost every sizzle beam because of his 2nd place aggro. As this happens he'll gap close to the boss during heart phases and stand to the right, popping fist of earth. When he gets targeted for sizzle it's a breeze. I love our monk. :]
08-30-2016, 09:27 AM
Spayd

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiracleBob

Well, Delirium and DK don't do the same thing ;) so there is a little bitte more utility :P

Except they do. Both gives 10% int down, and Dragon Kick only benefits monk, which is not a raid utility in that case.
08-30-2016, 10:05 PM
MiracleBob

Blunt resistance down is only for Monks? Really?
08-30-2016, 10:59 PM
Krindor

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiracleBob

Blunt resistance down is only for Monks? Really?

Well, the casters can utilize it as well, if they are book/staff smacking iirc, which barely has any effect. But realistically, no.
08-31-2016, 12:16 AM
maylee

If a group goes PLD/WAR (like mine!) MNKs are the favored melee because of Dragon Kick. If you roll with a DRK, NIN/DRG is more viable.
08-31-2016, 01:03 AM
Claire_Pendragon

This thread makes me think we'll see a blunt user for one of the 3 new jobs in 4.0
08-31-2016, 12:00 PM
Sailysium

Quote:

Originally Posted by maylee

If a group goes PLD/WAR (like mine!) MNKs are the favored melee because of Dragon Kick. If you roll with a DRK, NIN/DRG is more viable.

One thing to note, a monk handling int down means more SE combos for DRK to boost their dps a little bit, similar to slashing debuff overlap from War/Nin boosting one of those two when the other handles the utility. Ofc, still not ideal to pair DRK and MNK unless for int down on multiple targets like balls in a6s or the bosses in a1s
08-31-2016, 09:51 PM
Cabalabob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailysium

One thing to note, a monk handling int down means more SE combos for DRK to boost their dps a little bit, similar to slashing debuff overlap from War/Nin boosting one of those two when the other handles the utility. Ofc, still not ideal to pair DRK and MNK unless for int down on multiple targets like balls in a6s or the bosses in a1s

While technically true the difference is nowhere near as big or noticeable as WAR + NIN, dark arts spamming isn't sustainable on DRK and if you don't break it up with another combo every now and again you'll run out of mp fast. So regardless of if there's a MNK in the party, a DRK will still use delirium as their strongest non-dark arts combo and vice versa a MNK will still use dragon kick for blunt down regardless of if there's a DRK.

So with DRK + MNK you'll gain maybe an extra souleater you wouldn't have used without the MNK at random intervals. While with WAR + NIN, dancing edge and storm's eye have exactly the same effect, WAR keeps storm's eye up anyway while NIN can replace a dancing edge with an aeolian edge for an extra 60 potency every 20 seconds, for no cost.
09-01-2016, 09:41 PM
KarstenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabalabob

strongest non-dark arts combo

When just looking at the potencies, the strongest "non-dark arts" combo is the power slash combo with 20 more potency than the delirium combo.
09-01-2016, 10:35 PM
Cabalabob

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarstenS

When just looking at the potencies, the strongest "non-dark arts" combo is the power slash combo with 20 more potency than the delirium combo.

What? You need to look at that again. Power slash combo (hard slash 150, spinning slash 220, power slash 300)= 670 potency. Delirium combo (hard slash 150, syphon strike 250, delirium 280)= 680 potency.
09-02-2016, 01:53 PM
Claire_Pendragon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabalabob

(hard slash 150, spinning slash 220, power slash 300)= 670 potency. Delirium combo (hard slash 150, syphon strike 250, delirium 280)= 680 potency.

Not only is it 10 more potency, it gives MP, which you feed into Dark Arts for more damage.
The more you use your threat combo, the less MP you'll have to use up.
09-02-2016, 06:08 PM
KarstenS

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cabalabob

What? You need to look at that again. Power slash combo (hard slash 150, spinning slash 220, power slash 300)= 670 potency. Delirium combo (hard slash 150, syphon strike 250, delirium 280)= 680 potency.

Did they change the second step in a patch? Its long ago I did look at it the last time. But I'm shure, spinning and syphon did have the same potency this time.
09-02-2016, 08:18 PM
ChiiSoSeriouz

A lot of groups just want the boost to overall raid dps that trick and litany bring to the table, but an exceptional monk is always an asset to the party because they're capable of high individual dps and also have dragon kick. A top tier mnk with a nin and mch is a dangerous thing. Mantra tends to get overlooked, and personally i want a monk in the party just for mantra. I feel like mantra's utility is typically underrated.
09-02-2016, 10:02 PM
Cabalabob

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarstenS

Did they change the second step in a patch? Its long ago I did look at it the last time. But I'm shure, spinning and syphon did have the same potency this time.

Nope, always been this way, you're thinking of WAR whose enmity combo is their strongest combo cause WAR has to have everything.
09-03-2016, 05:53 PM
SpookyGhost

Some things MNK brings to the table:

- Traited Mantra
- Fist of Earth
- best melee AOE
- DK (assuming no DRK)

So, basically, MNK's main advantage is bringing defensive options and great AOE. The reason you'll often see people say MNK's not optimal is that if you don't need those defensive options then bringing a DRG in it's place is better gDPS (due to Litany and +BRD/MCH DPS).

However, if you don't plan on raiding hardcore world first then the DPS difference between DRG and MNK shouldn't matter. Every job in the game is viable for raiding, the only place where balance is absolutely key is in world first early prog because you'll want every bit of an advantage you can get. So if you enjoy MNK, play MNK.

Also, just as a side note, DK is also useful in the DRK/WAR comp - as an easy example in A1S you can DK the WAR's boss while DRK applies Delirium to the other. It's pretty niche, but it has it's places.
09-04-2016, 03:15 AM
Bloopan

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Some things MNK brings to the table:

- Traited Mantra
- Fist of Earth
- best melee AOE
- DK (assuming no DRK)

So, basically, MNK's main advantage is bringing defensive options and great AOE. The reason you'll often see people say MNK's not optimal is that if you don't need those defensive options then bringing a DRG in it's place is better gDPS (due to Litany and +BRD/MCH DPS).

However, if you don't plan on raiding hardcore world first then the DPS difference between DRG and MNK shouldn't matter. Every job in the game is viable for raiding, the only place where balance is absolutely key is in world first early prog because you'll want every bit of an advantage you can get. So if you enjoy MNK, play MNK.

Thats the key problem Im seeing, everyone wants to be world first (lol)

I agree with your points there for sure but that doesnt seem to be what grps need right now
09-05-2016, 06:08 AM
SpookyGhost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bloopan

Thats the key problem Im seeing, everyone wants to be world first (lol)

I agree with your points there for sure but that doesnt seem to be what grps need right now

Have you tried messaging groups looking for melee? They usually advertise for NIN or DRG but are fine with MNK, especially if they've got a PLD on the team.