I would like to have TP casting spells (cure too) and some magic spells that use TP (ancients for example or something like life transfer for healers)
Why DoM are unable to use TP if is not using your weapon to hit? i want to play Magic spells style, but too to have TP and use some good spells.
Like this post if you WANT DoM to gain TP with spells instead hits.
Magic spells damage/heal to TP?
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11-09-2011, 01:37 AMRaistlinMagic spells damage/heal to TP?
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11-09-2011, 01:38 AMRaistlin
Like this post if you DONT WANT DoM to gain TP with spells instead hits.
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11-09-2011, 01:40 AMWolfie
Voted yes, because if they're going to insist on DOM having TP as a resource, it should not go underused/unused. Either make their primary form of play (spellcasting) affect TP, or remove TP for DOM.
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11-09-2011, 01:43 AMAdvancedWind
Er....the way I see it, TP is a "DoW" resource and MP is a "DoM" resource. There are just a few abilities from both types that require the other resource (DoM Weaponskills, some DoW skills like red lotus).
Also, you can currently get TP relatively easy with Siphon TP as a mage,and you can use this TP on cross class skills like the ever so useful Second Wind and Chameleon.
Don't see any major reason to make TP easier to get or more relevant to mages as it is now, other than improving the current DoM weaponskills and adding a few more in the future.
TL;DR: No.
Edit:
DoM is able to use TP by cross classing(you know, one of the major features of FFXIV / the armoury system); in fact, the whole point of mages having TP in this game is to allow then to use DoW TP skills and the odd mage weaponskill. Like I've already said, I see no reason to change this, neither do I see any need to make mages obtain TP by using spells, since we do not need it that often to justify this kind of 'boost'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Inb4 jobs will lock you from using DoW moves, jobs will still allow cross classing, it will only be much more limited. I highly doubt you will be locked out of using all and every DoW TP ability on a mage job. -
11-09-2011, 01:52 AMRaistlin
siphon TP once every minute to get the same ammount of TP like DoW with 1-2 autoattack hits.
Is not like i asked for all spells that only use TP, i am saying that i want some spells that use TP and MP too.
For example:
CON uses Fire II -> 150 dmg -> 400tp -> -20mp
CON uses Lightning II -> 167 damage -> 430tp -> -20mp
CON uses Fire II -> 75 dmg (part resist) -> 200tp -> -20 mp
CON uses Cure II -> 300 hp healed -> 500tp -> -75mp
CON uses Cure II -> 300 hp healed -> 500tp -> -75mp
CON uses "Life Transfer spell" -> 300hp moved from CON to GLA -> -1000tp
CON uses Drain II -> 200dmg drained -> -1000tp -> -90mp -
11-09-2011, 01:58 AMJinko
I would actually like them to completely remove MP from DoW and TP from DoM.
Sure all the DoW that use cure and protect will cry a river but the armory can go to hell for all I care. :P
I'm sure Paladin will get its own healing skill similar to Second Wind. -
11-09-2011, 01:58 AMAdvancedWindKay got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
But why do we need that? How would that be beneficial to mage gameplay? You're just giving an extra bar to look at and maybe forcing us to use phantom darts more often just for the sake of using TP.
Also, I hardly see any sense in wasting TP on spell casting...then getting TP back when it connects. -
11-09-2011, 01:59 AMCycloptichorn
Second Wind! It doesn't matter if they call it an 'ability' or a 'spell.' It's the same thing.
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11-09-2011, 02:06 AMRaistlinRemove physical attacks like darts to obtain TP. So darts spams solved, no need engage.Quote:
But why do we need that? How would that be beneficial to mage gameplay? You're just giving an extra bar to look at and maybe forcing us to use phantom darts more oftne just for the sake of using TP.
Dont seems too complex to me to attain some TP before use X special spell. Melees have to attack from sides, behind, tank to face mobs around, check on links or pops and voke them too changing targets, etc. And for mages is too complex to use TP?
What mages win with this? Versatility not only see mana and cast. -
11-09-2011, 02:11 AMManafont
when will you regen mp? oh thought so
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11-09-2011, 02:18 AMAdvancedWindIt's not complex as much as it is rather redundant to have multiple resources (three if you count spells cast from HP) for magic in the same way that is also rather redundant to make many DoW skills that use up MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
It's not complex to use TP and MP, it just makes you wonder why even bother doing that.
And mages have to manage their MP pool, position themselfs out of harm's way while still being able to quickly aid a party member or attack the mob, watch buff / debuff timers, backup healing, etc, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
The devs could also make elemental affinities more useful and mages have to consider elements. Make more spells only work on special conditions (like gravity - or was is that other bind spell whose name I forgot? - only working on mobs that are moving when hit). Have some spells also change effectiveness when attacking from certain positions.
There is room to increase micromanagement, complexity and allow higher battle dynamics without plain and simply adding TP cost to spells. It's like some RTS game adding an extra resource just for the sake of having an extra resource instead of adding more unit formations or unique unit abilities.
See the rest of my post for answers. And once again I have to remind you that TP is already darn useful for cross class skills the way it currently is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
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11-09-2011, 02:27 AMRaistlinfake, mages will not move around every time, only to get out of range. Is not mages jobs to evade breaths for example, is tank job to face him. Dont use it like mages actually move around evading bombs from sky, coz we stay out of AoE WS and that all. You are talking like Mages right now are dynamic and are not. I'm sorry but i like to focus the game when i am playing and right now is too easy for a mage to play our job.Quote:
And mages have to manage their MP pool, position themselfs out of harm's way while still being able to quickly aid a party member or attack the mob, watch buff / debuff timers, backup healing, etc, etc.
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11-09-2011, 02:31 AMAistarainaAnd having to watch one extra bar means you will be "focusing" on the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Inb4 hes never fought Ifrit. -
11-09-2011, 02:35 AMAdvancedWindYour Problem: Mage play is not dynamic, neither mages need to move around during a fight or do anything else other than, as you say "cast spell, don't die".Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Your solution: Add TP cost to some spells so mages have to cast weaker spells to gain TP before casting the stronger ones!
....except they will still stand still while casting spells and will still not add any major complexity to mage play, unless you consider casting Fire II 3 times to gain enough TP for Flare "dynamic". Also, there's already cooldown timers doing the exact same damn thing.
My Solution: Make positioning, elemental affinities, monster behaviour and other factors more relevant to mages, so they cannot "just stand still and cast spells".
Will you really say that adding TP cost to spells is a better solution for your stated problem? Really? -
11-09-2011, 02:37 AMDelmontyb
They have already stated that they are working to allow casting magic increase TP :)
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11-09-2011, 02:54 AMTeakwood
By 'versatility' you mean 'an aggravating resource limitation that means we have to either hold TP by being in active mode, or get MP back by being in passive mode?
It's not like mages are brokenly powerful or capable of doing too much, by a long shot. -
11-09-2011, 03:26 AMRaistlinsure, and i will not until mages can go to do something more than heal.Quote:
Inb4 hes never fought Ifrit.
and TP moves for mages ^^Quote:
My Solution: Make positioning, elemental affinities, monster behaviour and other factors more relevant to mages, so they cannot "just stand still and cast spells".
Positioning: Always tank job to positioning mob, and have no sense to do more Fire damage from left and blizzard from right, and of course, moving will low your DPS a lot enought to ignore that bonus.
Elemental affinities: Seems that u are THM, test to cast diferent spells on Strongholds, could be you feel something about it.
i said that adding TP moves to mages is a step forward. that all and of course to these who can manage more than see if u have enough mp,u are out of range, etc.Quote:
Will you really say that adding TP cost to spells is a better solution for your stated problem? Really?
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11-09-2011, 03:39 AMAdvancedWindIn some cases, this could make sense. Let's take for example the Chimera shown at the 2.0 concept. What if his left head is weak to ice and the right is weak to fire, and you have to cast fire from the right or ice from the left for extra damage? That could make sense and make things a bit more interesting, just as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
This is not even the only possible way to make positionining relevant to mages. Have some spells hit only mobs around you. Have spells that hit only mobs far away. Have spells that hit mobs on a line (think FFXII scourge), etc, etc.
Yes, using the correct element is already 'better', but once again there are broader possibilities for this. What if they make monsters change / react differently to certain elements? Once again, I give you examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Ice Elemental, cast Ice on it => He counters with (tier of Ice spell used + 1) and recovers HP. Cast Fire on it enough times, and it is incapacitated, increasing Eye of Ice drop rate and reducing his spell power. Ta-dah![/QUOTE]
You were talking about adding TP cost to spells, which is NOT a step forward for reasons that I've already posted earlier; just having another bar to look at is hardly complex.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
However, adding more useful weaponskillsand abilities that cost TP for DoM is indeed a good thing that I can agree with, specially if they actually make spells increase your TP like one guy mentioned, or else we will be sitting on useless 3000 TP.
But making TP management central to mages when there are much better ways of achieving the same effect? No, thanks. -
11-09-2011, 03:40 AMsyntaxlies
they hvae said before they are looking into how to make tp more relevant for dom
edit: i think all dots should give a gradual tp boost as the hp shed the tp goes up or one dot that just does this, maybe like tp siphon but a dot version that keeps leaching the mobs tp gradually. -
11-09-2011, 03:43 AMJinkoAlthough kind of off topic, I fully understand and agree with this, in what other MMO does mage do pitiful damage ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
Hopefully Blackmage will sort this once and for all. -
11-09-2011, 06:11 AMDreadnought
id like to be able to use my TP for survival one way or another.
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11-09-2011, 06:32 AMDeadRiser
Why do you need a poll for this? Square has already stated they were most likely going to add this. Like! wh*r*? lol
/closethread -
11-09-2011, 07:08 AMLavani
I think they should add different uses and ways to generate TP, currently every class plays exactly the same.
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11-09-2011, 07:39 AMRaistlincan i have a link? i read al interviews and cant remember something like spells giving u TPQuote:
Why do you need a poll for this? Square has already stated they were most likely going to add this. Like! wh*r*? lol
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11-09-2011, 07:59 AMCoglin
This whole thread goes along as if we don't already have mage TP spells.
Radiance - does damage and generates MORE MP (1000 TP)
Levenbolt & Levenbolt II - Direct lightening nuke with dot (1000 TP)
Damnations - Does direct damage as well as drains MP from the mob to the caster. (1000 TP)
I am okay with them adding more if it is in a limited capacity.
In my opinion, MP for spells is in the spirit of mages, and Tp usage for DoW is in the spirit of there classes, and I feel the 2 need to generally be kept seperate. -
11-09-2011, 08:46 AMRaistlin
radiance need engage so is useless right now
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11-09-2011, 08:51 AMCoglinWhat.... ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin