Cleric Stance CD

Hi everyone,
Have you ever wished that CS cooldown were the other way round ?
I mean, it can happen that you have to switch back urgently to healing the moment you activate CS, and the 5s CD can make me quite nervous...
I would rather have the CS cooldown between OFF and ON rather than ON and OFF.
Do you think this could be a legitimate request to Square Enix ;-) ?
Or is there a reason to make us sweat when we desperately need healing back ?

Think this been a request since stance dancing was discovered (SCoB?)... And the sticky stance gets patched every second patch sooooo.... ;-)

This work as a penalty for healer
Because you have to plan and choose carefully when to go on and out Cs

And because fate hate healer

Most of the time, when you go in cs a asshole dps take an aoe or the tank eat à critical cleave or something...

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

This work as a penalty for healer
Because you have to plan and choose carefully when to go on and out Cs

And because fate hate healer

Most of the time, when you go in cs a asshole dps take an aoe or the tank eat à critical cleave or something...

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Exactly !!!! I hate that, it is unfair, we want to help any way we can (heal and dps) and we get penalized...

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I hate that, it is unfair, we want to help any way we can (heal and dps) and we get penalized...

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There would always need to be a balance. Let's assume Cleric had no ICD in either direction, that's a pretty significant boost to an already very versatile Healer. Is it backward compared to, say, Shadow Priests in WoW (that can cancel Shadow Form automatically by casting a heal)? Sure, though the intent is the same either way. It is there to make using your DPS form a weighted decision, not something you can instantly slip in/out of on a whim - and it should be this way, one direction or the other, when dealing with stat & playstyle altering effects as a heal-capable class.

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Originally Posted by RopeDrink

There would always need to be a balance. Let's assume Cleric had no ICD in either direction, that's a pretty significant boost to an already very versatile Healer. Is it backward compared to, say, Shadow Priests in WoW (that can cancel Shadow Form automatically by casting a heal)? Sure, though the intent is the same either way. It is there to make using your DPS form a weighted decision, not something you can instantly slip in/out of on a whim - and it should be this way, one direction or the other, when dealing with stat & playstyle altering effects as a heal-capable class.

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I know... i just behave like a spoiled child. ;-)

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Originally Posted by Rakith

Exactly !!!! I hate that, it is unfair, we want to help any way we can (heal and dps) and we get penalized...

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I respectfully disagree. I do not see how it is unfair for a healer to go into Cleric Stance at an inappropriate time. If a healer needs to heal, the answer is to not go into Cleric Stance. If the healer has nothing to do? Go ahead and DPS.

The other side of the coin is that knowing and understanding the fight provides a rough framework of when you can and cannot DPS. While this is highly dependent on your group as well (avoidable damage & tank cool downs), it honestly makes learning a fight's "rotation" a beneficial asset to have in all combat aspects of this game.

The only real gripe is when mashing the Cleric Stance button and it turns off and then back on, but the real solution to that is either through a hot-bar swapping macro (changes the place of where Cleric Stance is after turning it on or off) or simply not mashing the button. The queuing system in this game (especially for oGCDs) works well.

I believe the short cooldown of Cleric Stance adds to the skill of being a White Mage. It can be touchy. It will stab you in the back occasionally. Especially when pre-casting Clerics, most of the time, the server reads the request fine but every once in a while, your request goes in one ear and out of the other and it usually only happens when it absolutely should not happen.

Cool story

STOP.

It is fine as it is.
You should be penalized for making a wrong decision.
You have to think whether you should stance dance or not.

Agreed, cool story.

Some tend to forget the second word, "stance". It's not an instant-off transition.

Even good tanks have to think about such when switching between tank and DPS stances, because there is a re-cast cooldown. While you "sweat" your opinion, am I going to get tank stance back up in-time to take this hard-hitting tank buster mechanic to the face? It's on me if I screw that up. So why can't you take responsibility too?

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Originally Posted by technole

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As a DRK, wut are you talking about. Some mana one GCD an I'm back in grit.

I'd much rather be penalized like I am now (Can't heal for 5 seconds.) Than can't DPS for 5 seconds. Current way it works, involves understanding phases and rate of damage. The other way, would make it so you HAD to invest 5 seconds of healing everytime you wanted to heal. Instead of just Aero -> CS off -> Lustrate/Tetra/Essential Dignity -> CS on -> Return to DPS without DPS loss, you would have to Aero -> Cleric Stance off -> Lustrate/Tetra/Essential Dignity -> use 2 Heals or sit around -> Back to DPsing finally.

yeah and it was instant in 2.0 but then again skills like lustrate could heal their full potency in cleric stance too

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

yeah and it was instant in 2.0 but then again skills like lustrate could heal their full potency in cleric stance too

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The new lustrate is 1000x better for actually being potency based though. A 10k lustrate feels pretty good on anyone. Much better than 25%.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

The new lustrate is 1000x better for actually being potency based though. A 10k lustrate feels pretty good on anyone. Much better than 25%.

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Seems roughly the same for tanks unless crits, but then my sch isnt really geared just using aetherpool weapon. No doubt that its improved, but also true that CS got a cooldown, which can be frustrating if youre not careful. Which i suppose is the point that was being made to why it works the way it does now.

If the tank is correct

5 sec is not that much of a penalty especially in dungeon
Because in savage or EX content 5 sec is super looooong

The tank should be able to survive 5 sec with 30% hp with appropriate cooldown or the ultimate cooldown
Just enough for the heal to go back healing (and then emergency, regen or shield and then Back in dps)

For me the spell is good as it is
I like that penalty and I love that awful feeling of itght situation that you manage to save because healers are awesome and deal with shitty situation

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Originally Posted by Valknut

As a DRK, wut are you talking about. Some mana one GCD an I'm back in grit.

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Grit is on the GCD along with Oaths. MP is also something to be aware of since that is required to change stances.

Only warrior has the 10s cooldown between stances, but you don't always need Defiance to take every tank buster either. As it's not a damage mitigation stance but a heal and higher HP one. Like in A5S a warrior can just provoke while DPSing in Deliverance from the headache tank and use one of your standalone cool downs or use Holmgang as an immunity to stay in-place and not get slammed, if you don't get the party stack.

However, if you are going to need healing or Defiance HP in-order take a tank buster mechanic at the extreme/savage level, it's important to not catch yourself in stance dance re-cast lock. Once you get back in Defiance, you need to be healed to account for the missing HP, so that is another GCD to probably consider for a healer, or use Equilibrium to self-heal, or Infuriate/IB. Not to mention heals like Lustrate works better on Warrior in Defiance than any other tank because of the heal buff. Good tank/healer coordination works the same on both sides of the fence.

How about applying the cool down for recast both after activating and deactivating? Sometimes turning off Cleric Stance doesn't que properly by my character, but I don't want to mash the button because I don't want to accidentally go back into Cleric Stance. That's not punishing healers for using Cleric Stance improperly, that's just punishing Healers.

It's actually pretty easy. My brain got upgraded to always keep track if it's on or off inside my head. When I press it, my brain knows if its on or off. You can become less dependent on watching your bar and buff icons if you hide them in your UI. Secondly, if you use a macro with Stone II and Stone I embedded inside it, you will learn to no longer spam buttons as you quickly realize how futile your character is when its just standing there blabbing its head off to an error message that you interrupted the cast by doublepressing it.

I trained myself to watch the sound effect and floating buff/debuff icon with words before performing any other action. The benefit of this is that you develop a high level of situational awareness when you look at your character, the screen and the environment for the upcoming boss move/your DPS' header position and what skills everyone is using while simultaneously micromanaging the microseconds that are ticking by as you predict incoming damage, speed of mob death rate, when the upcoming AoE cones are going to arrive and which buttons to press and when on what ally. I went off a tangent, in summary, you get better or are forced to get better when cleric stance penalizes you or causes a tradeoff to be temporally and situationally aware. If I accidentally toggle cleric stance on, I know to wait 2 and a half counts of damage before having to swiftcast a heal.

The alternative solution is to practice delayed gratification and increase your aptitude in high-level executive thinking in real life. This is exactly what cleric stance is, the epitome and the essence of due diligence.

You don't go for -the- cookie, you think before you act, you think before you talk, you plan and anticipate before executing, you don't rely on speedy FPS gimmicky bullet trigger uppidity happidity DPS 1-2-3-4-5 finger pressings. Risk vs reward.

So no, keep it as it is. Of course I had my moments where a DPS decides to eat up a cleave or two and I couldn't heal just in time for the upcoming boss AoE - but these are rare. If I see a DPS continually being reckless, I'll slap a regen on them and call it a day. A stoneskin if they fail every mechanic, and a pre-loaded cure II with cleric off when I see the final sting going off.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

How about applying the cool down for recast both after activating and deactivating?

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This is a horrible idea. In many, many situations, you simply need to leave Cleric for half a second to throw a Tetra, Lustrate, or ED at the tank (or whoever has taken damage), then immediately get back into Cleric. This would completely make it impossible to do that. Your change to Cleric would punish proper healers even more than accidentally getting stuck in Cleric would.

Also, it's fairly easy and consistent to turn off Cleric without accidentally turning it on again if you properly utilize the skill queue. There's no need to mash buttons, a single press at the right time is enough.

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Originally Posted by KitomiSaitichi

if you use a macro with Stone II and Stone I embedded inside it

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Macros on DPS abilities are a bad idea, because it prevents you from using the aforementioned skill queue, and is a slight DPS loss. I'd also avoid them on healing abilities for the same reasons. If you're doing this because of syncing (so you don't have to remember to switch to the appropriate level of Stone), there's a better way to do this.

Code:

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/ac Protect
/hotbar set "Stone" 1 5
/hotbar set "Stone II" 1 5
/hotbar set "Stone III" 1 5
/micon Protect

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This will make Protect (which you usually cast at the beginning of every duty) place the level-appropriate version of Stone on your hotbar. Replace 1 and 5 with the hotbar number and slot number on that hotbar (in this order) for your setup.

It actually really sucks when you get a terrible moment of a lag spike the second you try to go out of Cleric stance, only for it to register as a double input and you go right back in.
Even worse when it happens during a time you need a desperate heal.

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

It actually really sucks when you get a terrible moment of a lag spike the second you try to go out of Cleric stance, only for it to register as a double input and you go right back in.
Even worse when it happens during a time you need a desperate heal.

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This is the worst. CS seems to be really finicky for me lately, too.

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Originally Posted by DynamoAce

It actually really sucks when you get a terrible moment of a lag spike the second you try to go out of Cleric stance, only for it to register as a double input and you go right back in.
Even worse when it happens during a time you need a desperate heal.

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I don't understand why more people don't pay attention to this. I'm not even a good player, but never have I ever gone into to cleric stance on purpose only for it to actually be a bad idea. What actually happens is the game doesn't register my click so I'm casting a few times in cleric stance, or what you said. I definitely wouldn't say this is skill by any definition.

I wish there was a cooldown on reentering Cleric Stance, just 1 or 2 seconds would suffice.

they should really remove cleric stance altogether...being able to effectively dps or heal on demand controlled by just a stance is completely broken......... or allow other jobs with a castable heal the same benefit, allow a blm and smn physick to be as potent as a healers with a stance dance too then. Why do only healers have this option to damage OR heal equally?

tbh cleric stance should be removed altogether.

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Originally Posted by Mindylou

*stuff*

Why do only healers have this option to damage OR heal equally?

tbh cleric stance should be removed altogether.

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Why do tanks have this stance option to deal more damage or a tank one that generate more aggro and/or mitigate damage?


NO.

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Originally Posted by Mindylou

they should really remove cleric stance altogether...

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How about no?

Cleric is an intentional risk/reward mechanic that teaches you to plan ahead. It's also there to balance for the fact that healers in this game have pretty absurd DPS potential when played correctly, and it's an extremely fun and engaging role mechanic to boot. Also, what technole said.

CS didn't used to have a CD. Can't remember when it was added if it was during beta or not long after. This makes it so a healer needs to plan.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I don't understand why more people don't pay attention to this. I'm not even a good player, but never have I ever gone into to cleric stance on purpose only for it to actually be a bad idea. What actually happens is the game doesn't register my click so I'm casting a few times in cleric stance, or what you said. I definitely wouldn't say this is skill by any definition.

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Benediction and outrage help when this happens.
Ast however still has the penalty though.

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Originally Posted by Zaresin

Benediction and outrage help when this happens.
Ast however still has the penalty though.

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Only benediction and the fairy bypass the healing penalty
Th sch itslf and ast are reduced