Weeks later, I'm still loving Weeping City.

Most feedback on these forums is for newly-released content or events, which is good, but I thought I'd start a discussion on a piece of content that's been out for a little while now that I still enjoy - The Weeping City of Mhach.

I feel like this sort of minor step up in difficulty shows great potential for future content direction in this game. At first I was worried about long queues and constant vote abandons, but I'm pleased to report that at least on the Primal data center, queues still pop fairly quickly and (most, not all) groups are willing to stick it out and try to stay positive through the wipes. Not every group that I've been in has wiped, but there's probably an average of about 1 for all the runs I've done, usually on Ozma, which I think is a great nudge from the devs to boost overall raid/mechanics awareness.

There's still some rage, and there's still some loot n scoots, but not any worse than what I see in old Towers or Void Ark, and I generally see more perserverance and explanation of mechanics to struggling players in Weeping than I ever see in the old 24-mans. I think the bosses are challenging, but recoverable, which is a nice middle ground between "a WAR/SCH combo could duo this" and "someone died in Alex Savage, might as well just wipe it". It reminds me a bit of Extreme primal fights, but tuned down a bit in regards to the mitigation/healing/DPS checks, which I think is nice.

I don't think it's a stretch to say that a lot of people are frustrated with how easy some of the content in this game is. I don't expect everything to be Savage-level difficulty (I no longer raid for a reason), but I do think more content that pushes players to improve and be aware of their surroundings rather than just 1-2-3 button push zoning to Netflix is a welcome addition, in my book.

As an aside, I'm glad that this content has not received any nerfs from the development end.

What are your thoughts on the City of Wipes, now that it's been out for a while? Would you like to see more content of this difficulty, possibly at the 4 or 8-man level? Or are the rewards simply not worth the frustration to you?

Let's discuss!

While the mechanics of the content are in my opinion still too easy. My main true issue with weeping city is the 23 other players in which half of them I cannot trust to dodge an aoe let alone deal with positional raid wipe based mechanics.

so personally I want harder content, and more content that teaches the lower levels of the community how to properly deal with mechanics, and communicate with others to complete content that should be difficult.

My favorite part of weeping city is Ozma triangle! Lol cause I dodge the "beam of awesome" by standing on the edge of the platform to be able to continue hitting Ozma in melee range. "What's the joy in that?" You may be asking yourself. Well, it's when all your front-line DPS and tank try it afterwards and half your group dies from falling off...and the chat thereafter is, "I saw the MNK/NIN do it dammit!"...always a good time!

I don't really bother with it anymore to be honest. It was fun to learn and clear once, but then I'd rather just have checked it off the list and went my merry way.

I don't know, I just prefer to be numb when I put my face on the grindstone, rather than being awake and aware of every inch tearing at me.

I've generally enjoyed my one or two runs per week. The mechanics are fairly well balanced in that they're important enough to require attention (and are therefore engaging), but not extremely difficult to learn.

It reminds me of Labyrinth of the Ancients a long time ago, when most people were in the i70/i80 range. The difficulty is just right, I think, and I hope the team keeps aiming for this sort of difficulty in the 24-man raids.

Yes me too. Please dev team take a note from the Weeping City for the future 24man dungeons. We want challenging mechanics and interesting bosses where every role needs to do something specific. I hope the next additions will be as fun and challenging as this.

Honestly my favorite part about Weeping city isn't the bosses or even the music. it's the fact that the trash mobs are not painfully boring. Everything dies at a good pace, there's some status effects such as paralyze and poison flying about, and one that involves the teams somewhat splitting up.

I have not had gear from Weeping city for like a month now, i roll on whatever now and if do not get gear usually do not bother going back for the week.
Players still do silly things there especially at Ozma

The people running this game will continue to scale up the content difficulty as long as the playerbase shows enough competence to beat it. We as group gotta quit crying for nerfs and get good ( git gud?) for a change.

This gives me hope for deep dungeon since players of all skill levels have been able to beat it ( or so I believe) so maybe it'll be safe to scale up the difficulty for the 51-200 floors.

Weeping City is definitely a step in the right direction. However, I really wish in 24 man raids especially that they would save ALL of the loot until the very end to stop this loot and scoot business.

It seems off/on rough right now with wipes, but as time passes and people practice I have hope that eventually we'll have a more skilled/aware playerbase

Experiencing too many wipes in WC since last week. Looks like the good people/aware of the good things to do doesn't bother'em anymore with WC weakly run.

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Originally Posted by Watachy

Experiencing too many wipes in WC since last week. Looks like the good people/aware of the good things to do doesn't bother'em anymore with WC weakly run.

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If it become to much of a problem, then might be time to server transfer

I do prefer the aesthetics of this place compared to Void Ark, but the high average run length and (still) occasional hangups on Forgall/Ozma still make me want to just lot pretty much anything that drops just so I can get my one run in for the week and leave, whereas I was never that desperate to avoid doing additional runs in the same week with the previous 24-mans.

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

If it become to much of a problem, then might be time to server transfer

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well your queued with your data center, not just your server. Judging that they are on moogle meaning they are EU they don't have that luxury

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

If it become to much of a problem, then might be time to server transfer

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Nice logic. If you wanna create a stupid debate i could say that i should yell at people failing mechanics on the fights and launch a votekick. But hey, that's just my point of view and my experience on my last runs, which were painfull compaired to the runs i had a month ago.

Not a debate, just a suggestion, plus its not like its always going to go great, just because you have some bad runs doesn't mean anything

To be honest, I don't even bother to do it anymore. Looks like I had more fun to do Cristal Tower (CT2). Maybe, I'm going weary faster but when I was able to farm CT2 for a part of my weekly memo, I would never do this with Weeping City.

Maybe I'm weary with the fact few players don't care with mechanics anymore when they are overstuffed and forgot there are OS mechanics, then I'm going weary with stupid wipes. Maybe it is just I miss new content. Probably both and a little fed up with the farm.

I personally WC is the perfect difficulty for what it is. It's hard enough where you can struggle through it a bit on your first few tries but not insane enough to just be a slog each time. I hope the next installment of these raids is a similar difficulty.

I still enjoy WC too. I do like that the bosses are more challenging this time and just like the OP most of my runs will have at least 1 or 2 wipes at Ozma or Forgal but we don't give up and try again. Usually the wipe is due to someone accidentally not notice the meteor is on them and won't move or they accidentally go right instead of left. The only thing that makes me mad is when someone rage quits when we wipe. Usually someone in my alliance will try to quickly explain mechanics if someone doesn't know them. I have fun and trying to get the tank head piece and the damn thing won't show itself. I'm going get you.

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

Not a debate, just a suggestion, plus its not like its always going to go great, just because you have some bad runs doesn't mean anything

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Your suggestion doesn't make sense. 1. DF is data center wide. 2. You're basically telling them to uproot themselves from their friends and connections because of bad DF runs? 3. All data centers have an issue with WC. Situational awareness is a new things for a lot of players, it seems.

On topic, I love WC's difficulty and I hope the Dev team continues making content like it. Maybe the DF players will get progressively better.

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Originally Posted by Zigabar

Your suggestion doesn't make sense. 1. DF is data center wide. 2. You're basically telling them to uproot themselves from their friends and connections because of bad DF runs? 3. All data centers have an issue with WC. Situational awareness is a new things for a lot of players, it seems.

On topic, I love WC's difficulty and I hope the Dev team continues making content like it. Maybe the DF players will get progressively better.

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And I wasn't arguing anything past it, since I can read, and the person before that said what you said, so go stoke the flames elsewhere

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Originally Posted by Cwestcott18

And I wasn't arguing anything past it, since I can read, and the person before that said what you said, so go stoke the flames elsewhere

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Honestly you didnt even answer the OP's question


Back to topic, run after run I saw how people is improving and I'm glad for it. Yesterday I have my faster run so far.

I'm still having lots of fun in Weeping City.
Surprisingly I find more groups struggling with Forgall than with Ozma these days.

I think it's the perfect difficulty for 24 mans. The mechanics are punishing enough that they must be paid attention to but simple enough to be completed by a DF group with several newcomers.

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Originally Posted by Brady672

I personally WC is the perfect difficulty for what it is. It's hard enough where you can struggle through it a bit on your first few tries but not insane enough to just be a slog each time. I hope the next installment of these raids is a similar difficulty.

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This is true. Weeping City is certainly as difficult as content should get. The mechanics require some getting used to but are not so overbearing that recovery isn't possible. I honestly believe SE learned from the Alexander Savage fiasco with Weeping City. When difficulty negatively affects clear rates, the content very well might be too difficult. Here's hoping SE expands on this sweet spot and provides a good challenge without the needless frustration.

By far one of my favorite dungeons in the game. It could stand to be a bit more challenging, but I'll be happy if this becomes the new standard for content. Even if it's no "hard" per se, the fact it isn't faceroll is what I like. Please stick to that, SE.

Weeping City is great. I love it. It's not super difficult but it does force people to actually pay attention to mechanics. I'd say it's probably my favorite 24 man. No more VA face rolling. WoD would be my fave but when WoD runs long, it runs longggggg.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

What are your thoughts on the City of Wipes, now that it's been out for a while? Would you like to see more content of this difficulty, possibly at the 4 or 8-man level? Or are the rewards simply not worth the frustration to you?

Let's discuss!

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For me, has nothing to do with difficulty. WC is quite easy, but does require more attention and knowledge than previous 24-mans.

What I want are fights that are fun, and that is subjective so meh. Personally, I like Ozma and I kinda like the Forgal fight. However, the first and last fights are incredibly boring - which makes both starting and finishing kinda cruddy and that ruins the entire experience for me.

After my 2nd time in, I had no desire to return, but I have a few times to seek out specific drops. I can't say I am having fun though.

Nothing particularly inventive.
The scenery's pretty decent.
No real difficulty.
I kinda like Ozma.

Wouldn't do it more than twice if not for the loot.

Honestly preferred the ARR 24-mans a bit, though not necessarily for any good reason.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Weeping City is certainly as difficult as content should get. The mechanics require some getting used to but are not so overbearing that recovery isn't possible.

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But there's no actual difficulty to it beyond indicator -> respond to indicator. The closest we get to responsibilities are intercepting orbs, killing trash fireballs, and dropping comets. It's "difficulty" is the same thing that makes people not want to do Savage, except on such a small scale as to render it unattractive to most Savage raiders. It's memorization. Once adds are dead, use goop. When it turns into triangle, move off the panel. Signal and action. No real choice, no real adaptation. Just do.

What that all boils down to is some challenge and necessary awareness for all of one attempt, and then an experience indifferent from Void Ark thereafter. Some scant watchfulness for obvious markers.

Weeping City is awful. The mechanics are as simple as usual, but I have to watch lots of people die because they don't pay attention.

If you love Weeping City so much why don't you just marry it??

I did weeping city once got a piece of gear and never did it again considering I'm sitting on mountain of lore tomes and don't do raiding to need upgraded gear haven't seen the point of doing it every week so did it just for clear.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I did weeping city once got a piece of gear and never did it again considering I'm sitting on mountain of lore tomes and don't do raiding to need upgraded gear haven't seen the point of doing it every week so did it just for clear.

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The Weeping City gear looks pretty good, why not do it for the glamour?

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Originally Posted by Launched

Weeping City is awful. The mechanics are as simple as usual, but I have to watch lots of people die because they don't pay attention.

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Good. I want to see more content that either forces players to pat attention or wipes them. We'll never have decently challenging dungeons if we cater to the faceroll crowd. I don't even want to call them casual because plenty of casual players want to be challenged. They just can't necessarily devote hours of time to Savage.