Samurais vs. Knights

First off, I never played FFXI. To those of you that consider this a fatal character flaw, I am at the mercy of your fury.

Moving on. What is the obsession with samurais? Personally, I think samurais are amongst the most bad-ass warriors in military history, but they just don't feel *right* in a fantasy-based MMORPG. On the other hand, the "knight-in-shining-armor" archetype is a fantasy staple. Without it, the game isn't complete.

Am I culturally biased? Are samurais more of a desire of the Asian community base, who are more accustomed to stories of the katana wielding warrior than the sword and shield soldier? Or is this a cry from the carry-over FFXI community who saw the samurai class implemented so successfully that they cannot continue without it repeated here?

Help me understand!

Yeah I say there's a bit of cultural bias there. It's a global MMO, so there should be globally inspired classes.

samurai are apart of FF seires. so have pride of place in any FF game. the game is game is japanese. if they want an iconic japanese warrior why shouldn't they. they are putting in a european knight paladin before they are putting in a samurai. so to say they are only thinking of them self is kinda false.

(the kill the final boss in FF5 use 2 whitemages and 2 samurai. heal with your mage and use coin toss with your samuria till the boss is dead) then tell me your samurai didn't belong. that is a FF game you just finished :P

im all for the knight class samurais are so played out i dont want to see a repeat of ffxi where all other classes kept getting nerfed and the japan based class ie sam got improvements again and agian its not fair to the GLOBAL COMUNITY that said if yoshi and the team can keep the biased thing out of it then adding both classes is fine just dont pander to the sam first type of mindset

The Samurai is a Japanese cultural icon of might and justice and all around awesome. It shares the same space as a Knight of medieval Europe and the Cowboy of the old west.

I was going to make a similar thread bit it was going to be more along the lines of Cultural hero's and villain's and how it might be interesting so see at least some of that put into the game.

Samurai vs Ninja ect. with more or less the goal of planting the idea that perhaps the American Cowboy or Gunslinger might be worthy of entering the pantheon of cultural icons that make it into eorzea

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Originally Posted by Vyncent

Help me understand!

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What the?..

So you didn't play SE's last Final Fantasy MMO that had the job samurai in it, then you wonder why it seems out of place to you in FFXIV? I think you need to help us understand your logic first.

Its cultural bias, ... you don't have enough Knight and shield from others games?

Samurai/Ninja - been around in FF series for a long time, and also one of the few favourite classes among players especially those whole like to play DD.

These classes give different play style than other DDs. If knights(PLD, DRK) gonna be in a FFXIV series, SAM/NIN better be.

We will have a Knight class.
Paladin = Knight (ナイト) in JP, it just gets translated from Knight to Paladin for NA/EU crowds.

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Originally Posted by RoyBaty

What the?..

So you didn't play SE's last Final Fantasy MMO that had the job samurai in it, then you wonder why it seems out of place to you in FFXIV? I think you need to help us understand your logic first.

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And Roy takes the first swing at the pinata!

My answer is in your post. I did not play FFXI, so I have no contextual basis for visualizing the samurai in FFXIV. But my question is actually more general in nature; it asks whether cultural basises play a role in how we imagine our fantasy landscapes and how those ideologies may clash in a global MMORPG, or rather if there is no cultural influence, is the hype around specific classes and/or jobs stemming from their success in prior FF games, such as FFXI.

While your response seems to imply the latter, don't let me stop you from swinging your stick in hopes of obtaining some candy.

Why not both?

Right now alot of the architecture and visuals have a very western feel so I can understand the feeling that they'd be misplaced... but they could easily add a new area in an expansion that had a more eastern style.

In either case... knights (or paladins) will be here imminently (1.21 if I'm not mistaken) whereas samurai would be at some date TBD...

They have tons of time to introduce scenarios where they would not be out of place.

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Originally Posted by Griss

The Samurai is a Japanese cultural icon of might and justice and all around awesome. It shares the same space as a Knight of medieval Europe and the Cowboy of the old west.

I was going to make a similar thread bit it was going to be more along the lines of Cultural hero's and villain's and how it might be interesting so see at least some of that put into the game.

Samurai vs Ninja ect. with more or less the goal of planting the idea that perhaps the American Cowboy or Gunslinger might be worthy of entering the pantheon of cultural icons that make it into eorzea

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Interesting stuff. Reminds me of the sharpshooter cowboy from FFVIII. What a great cutscene that was, taking aim during the parade and watching the bullet come to a stop.

the game has a western feel thanks to the old dev team. the new dev team is making this game more and more final fantasy every patch. so in that sense samurai will not be out of place

Just to add on to what others have said, Samurai has been around the FF scene for a while. FF5, FF6 (Cyan although he just seemed more like a Knight with a Katana), FF Tactics, even Auron from FFX sort of had a Samurai style to him.

If you had played FF11, you'd know that there was a Far East culture in the Kazham area where you were able to unlock Samurai and Ninja. There were pretty decent quests that revolved around both of the jobs from the unlocking of them to the obtaining the artifact armor sets.

The reason Samurai and Ninja weren't out of place in FFXI is because they were released in an expansion that dealt with going to the east and discovering the secrets that it held. They weren't just thrown into the game because people wanted to play a Samurai, it had a back story behind it. If they want to introduce Samurai into FFXIV, it would have to come from a place where they are still practicing more ancient type of combat.

Referencing XI but vaguely, samurais were tied to the more asian culture influenced expansion. If they add the far east and they add a more asian feeling culture and city, you'll probably feel like they fit more. Right now we're in "Westphalia" as I like to call it.

Ul'dah is certainly not Western-culture themed, and it's the only city with a Guild for Sword wielder. Are you saying that Knight make sense more than Samurai here? Neither of them are. At the very least, Ul'dah local levequests for Blacksmith made it pretty clear there are countries to the further East of Ul'dah that had clashed with them before, and that they wield exotic blades.

Because they all want to be Auron from FFX...

samurai is like saying knight but it's more eastern so i don't see the issue playing AOE 3 the main thing from japan was samurai and the other had diff type of warrior for there history.

So i think it's very fantasy like

I don't understand the point of this thread. There is a large variety of jobs and classes that are in the game or will be in the game.

One thing I always loved about FF series is the mixing of cultures, mythologies, lore etc from all over the world and adding its own twist to fit in each games universe.

Samurai will most likely be added like many other past classic FF jobs will.
And like in any previous game they will be fitting into the setting nicely, SE is quite good at that looking at past games.

Just cause your ideal RPG doesn't contain a certain class/creature doesn't make that the ideal RPG setting for everyone else.

Simply look at real life history, while there where Knights type warriors in the medival europe there existed Samurai type warriors in the far east.
XIV takes place in a fantasy world and the Eozera we know is just a small part of it, what says other continents we later explore must have the same culture, customs and style as the one we know of now?

If they do implement Samurai's considering I never played XI...

I'd want them to be implemented like Tactics. It'd be cool. They'd have decent attacks but an AoE move around them that depends on which sword they use or skill. One would heal the people around them, the other damages, some debuffs. It'd be cool.

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Originally Posted by Vyncent

First off, I never played FFXI. To those of you that consider this a fatal character flaw, I am at the mercy of your fury.

Moving on. What is the obsession with samurais? Personally, I think samurais are amongst the most bad-ass warriors in military history, but they just don't feel *right* in a fantasy-based MMORPG. On the other hand, the "knight-in-shining-armor" archetype is a fantasy staple. Without it, the game isn't complete.

Am I culturally biased? Are samurais more of a desire of the Asian community base, who are more accustomed to stories of the katana wielding warrior than the sword and shield soldier? Or is this a cry from the carry-over FFXI community who saw the samurai class implemented so successfully that they cannot continue without it repeated here?

Help me understand!

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Samurais were TP whores in the purest form. As much as I liked that about SAM in FFXI, I don't really see that as being a problem in this game. I suppose they can add super combos and stuff, but who knows. I'll play it if they add Samurai to the game, but I certainly will not beg Square for it. My time as a Samurai was done back in FFXI. I don't need to do it again, as fun as it would be.

Why do I specifically want Samurai?

Well, it's because for me they ruined the "knight" type characters (Gladiators and Paladins) by making them both low DPS tanks, which I personally dislike greatly. I want to use a sword (because I love swords) WITHOUT being a tank. I want to use a sword WITHOUT having to use a shield (because I don't like those all that much). Specifically, I want to be a DPS class with a sword, but if they do decent damage I'm fine with anything that is not a tank.

So Samurai is a chance for there to finally be the class I really want. For those of you that have played Phantasy Star Universe, my ideal class that Sega couldn't have made any more perfect for me, was Acrofighter. High Saber (the game's one handed sword) use, no off-hand weapon if you chose to and no penalties whatsoever for not using an off-hand (unlike Glad where you miss out on a bunch of utility), high speed and power.

Obviously Samurai won't be that exactly, but something similar to that. Sword only without being a huge greatsword (I like greatswords too but it's not the same thing), and not a tank. And yes, I'm aware that SAM in XI had dai-katana, but those aren't as huge as the Cloud-esque greatswords I'm referring to and may not even apply in this game. Ideally, it would be AMAZING if Samurai in this game had two-handed katana...because they used iaijutsu. Like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...0Yo4ZMQ#t=296s

THAT would be the most amazing thing ever.

To be honest the reason i played xiv is because i wanted to play Samurai again since i really liked that class in xi, but due to all the adjustments they're making to the game, it seems like this thing is really far away...

In VII, Sephiroth wielded the Masamune - a katana. In X, Auron used a greatsword fashioned as a katana. His Celestial Weapon was also called the Masamune. This trend's been pretty commonplace within the latter half of Final Fantasy franchise, most likely perpetuated by the occasional encounter with Gilgamesh (VIII and XII to be specific). I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to settle in Eorzea to teach the Walkers of the Path to be samurai.

EDIT:

Gilgamesh also wielded the Masamune in VIII and Zidane has his dual-edged weapon named Masamune as well. It's a trend 5/6 installments running.

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Originally Posted by Vyncent

First off, I never played FFXI. To those of you that consider this a fatal character flaw, I am at the mercy of your fury.

Moving on. What is the obsession with samurais? Personally, I think samurais are amongst the most bad-ass warriors in military history, but they just don't feel *right* in a fantasy-based MMORPG. On the other hand, the "knight-in-shining-armor" archetype is a fantasy staple. Without it, the game isn't complete.

Am I culturally biased? Are samurais more of a desire of the Asian community base, who are more accustomed to stories of the katana wielding warrior than the sword and shield soldier? Or is this a cry from the carry-over FFXI community who saw the samurai class implemented so successfully that they cannot continue without it repeated here?

Help me understand!

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Gladiator and Palladin are not enough for you?

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Originally Posted by kensredemption

In VII, Sephiroth wielded the Masamune - a katana. In X, Auron used a greatsword fashioned as a katana. His Celestial Weapon was also called the Masamune. This trend's been pretty commonplace within the latter half of Final Fantasy franchise, most likely perpetuated by the occasional encounter with Gilgamesh (VIII and XII to be specific). I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to settle in Eorzea to teach the Walkers of the Path to be samurai.

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Gilgamesh has been around since V, and it's the same guy :) he travel through dimensions you know.

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Originally Posted by Choyi

One thing I always loved about FF series is the mixing of cultures, mythologies, lore etc from all over the world and adding its own twist to fit in each games universe.

Samurai will most likely be added like many other past classic FF jobs will.
And like in any previous game they will be fitting into the setting nicely, SE is quite good at that looking at past games.

Just cause your ideal RPG doesn't contain a certain class/creature doesn't make that the ideal RPG setting for everyone else.

Simply look at real life history, while there where Knights type warriors in the medival europe there existed Samurai type warriors in the far east.
XIV takes place in a fantasy world and the Eozera we know is just a small part of it, what says other continents we later explore must have the same culture, customs and style as the one we know of now?

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I agree i remember back when the game was just being talk about , about a city in the far east which could be one of the flag in the map we see. They say samurai is coming and so is ninja so i don't see why it wont fit with FFXIV sometimes i don't understand people lol. The game don't have just 1 culture just like what you saying.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

Gilgamesh has been around since V, and it's the same guy :) he travel through dimensions you know.

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I know, and that's why I'd like him to make another appearance in XIV. It's been far too long since I saw that lug prancing around. Sure he showed up in Duodecim, but that's not enough! :D

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Originally Posted by smokymcweed

im all for the knight class samurais are so played out i dont want to see a repeat of ffxi where all other classes kept getting nerfed and the japan based class ie sam got improvements again and agian its not fair to the GLOBAL COMUNITY that said if yoshi and the team can keep the biased thing out of it then adding both classes is fine just dont pander to the sam first type of mindset

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Is there no thread where you don't come off sounding like a condescending ass?

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Originally Posted by smokymcweed

im all for the knight class samurais are so played out i dont want to see a repeat of ffxi where all other classes kept getting nerfed and the japan based class ie sam got improvements again and agian its not fair to the GLOBAL COMUNITY that said if yoshi and the team can keep the biased thing out of it then adding both classes is fine just dont pander to the sam first type of mindset

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Samurai would be a Job for sure which means it be party base now it need a class to go with so they may come up with a class.

Seeing how all the jobs are base of FF history i don't see the issue here -.- there always going to be that 1 overpower class/job to do Event A and this Class/Job to do B,C,D so once again i don't see the issue i think you are just overreacting with this issue.

No matter what happen players would find the best job/class to do anything with and that just a issue SE would have to fix as they go with the game which never be fix 100% make all class/job the same people get bored of them fast.

I think the problem with the name Samurai itself is that, a Samurai in good ol' wartimes might have been trained in the sword, spear, bow, and/or unarmed combat (amongst possible other objects). And as time went on, it's something you're just born into (or forged with a family history scroll), it's usually not something you earned.

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On the Job / Class note: With Paladin being incorporated, I suppose it might be appropriate to have a katana/tachi-wielding class (i.e. fencer) with the ability to employ the Samurai job.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I think the problem with the name Samurai itself is that, a Samurai in good ol' wartimes might have been trained in the sword, spear, bow, and/or unarmed combat (amongst possible other objects). And as time went on, it's something you're just born into (or forged with a family history scroll), it's usually not something you earned.

...

On the Job / Class note: With Paladin being incorporated, I suppose it might be appropriate to have a katana/tachi-wielding class (i.e. fencer) with the ability to employ the Samurai job.

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ya but this is a game you can earned it.

To answer the OP question. Samurai are skill chain masters in FFXI, they breathe TP like if it is their oxygen. They are also Demon Killers.

Knights/Paladin is considered tanks, and Undead Killers.

There are classes from every culture, references to monsters. Magic erm... Ifrit and Shiva don't sound very Japanese to me! thing about ff is that there are references and touches to almost all cultures. I wonder though what will happen to lancer if samurai shows its face...