Disappointment in the role-playing system

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I was horrified the behavior of players in the dungeons (I play PLD / DRK
).

Paty — 70% (badly).
Paty — 30% (good).

I always play on the classical system:

1. Tank > Healler (DEF heller).
2. Healler > Tank.
3. DPS > Only Support.

DPS assists attack the tank, the tank healer heals.
The doctor has less work, helping only tank.

***

This game is not going well.

- DPS creates aggression boss.
- DPS does not look stray mobs.
- DPS presses two buttons and holding tank games exercises (Flash-Flash-MP).
- Do not respond to a request chatting.

This is the norm?:confused:
What is the point in this game, the bonus is not a pleasure.

***

I checked out the game for the DPS to 50 lvl, everything is fine.
It does not create problems of the tank, and always assists, productive process.
I clean the mobs around the dungeon, written in tears chat, lazy people.:o

I am not sure if I get this, off your points you are basically upset about the quality of the players you get and about your problem that the game revolves around DPS doing DPS and generate aggro on tanks, tanks having to aoe aggro frequently and healers healing tank.

Not going to comment on the quality of players. The game revolves around the trinity system, so by default you get fixed basic responsibilities for each role you do. Nothing wrong about it.

I'm sorry, I do not see the Trinity system, only the binary system of the game.

I am a new player, so the question of quality players.
I'm trying to figure out whether this is a normal game without bad players deliberations.

The system works as intended, like many other MMOs. FFXIV just has different rules of thumbs.

Bad players always exist in any games whether deliberate or not. They are also in the majority. For quality players depending on how harsh you define it, it can go as low as 0.1% of the players population but for a starter it's definitely less than the bad players around.

I don't know if it's because I'm tired but I don't understand what you're saying. You're annoyed because DPS attack different targets?

No, it does not work...

Just Black Mage without me quietly killed the boss.
Healer work is multiplied, to treat all party.

It turns stupid creation of aggression, the players do what they want.
I am pleased with the game as a whole. Dungeons interesting roles are not observed in 80%.

If it is a standard of behavior in the game, you can not discuss the topic further, thank you for your answers.

In low level dungeons nobody cares about tanks, because their aggro abilities are weak and synched DPS/healer can tank themselves (sometimes better).
Most 50+ BLMs who got Sastasha/TTDC/Hala in leveling roulette will rip aggro from a sprout GLD.
Most of the newbie tanks don't know how to tank. Some just attack one mob at a time and refuse to Flash.

When you level up, situation will correct itself.

Ok.
Thanks for the info.

The trinity system works as intended. As MahoSenshi graciously stated, most 50+ blm will easily rip hate from sprout tanks regardless. Not just 50+ blm but also brds, and mch because the burst from those classes are really high in low-level dungeon. By the time you reach 50+ dungeons it is expected that you know how to tank efficiently and that marking stuff is pointless to some degree. If your losing hate l, then practice your rotation and the problem will correct itself. Also, in low-level dungeons, people who are 50+ in a low dungeon can and will usually kill the enemies quicker than the tank can grab aggro. It is normal, you learn to grow a thick skin and practice.

What's your gear like on your paladin? Meaning your ilvl on your Pld that could be an issue too if your gear isn't up to snuff, especially a weapon, you will have threat problems a lot as you lvl. Getting gear that's higher ilvl from dungeons or from the vendors around HW areas help if you're in say ilvl 90-110 gear.

Oh...

PLD 54 - ilvl 119-120 gear.
DRK 45 - ilvl 39-42 gear.

I do not watch 80% of assisting and supporting tank attacks.
I use per session 15-20 Hi-Poition while the doctor treats others.

***

Thanks for the answers, I meet the high-level players to forget about the fresh look.

PS:
DPS is expected to increase to 60 lvl, not to wait for assisting the attack?
I go to the dungeon to gain experience, why should I experience at lvl 60?
I tried many times to create a chain of experience, it is useless.
No trinity...

I'm confused. The way my dungeons usually go (after about level 30 when all tanks except PLD can hold aggro on everything) is: Pull all the things, establish AoE aggro, pop a few cooldowns so healer can do damage instead of babysitting me. The two DPS players burn down everything at once. Problem?

Like what I mentioned, most new tanks won't know how to play the class effectively. This leads to having problems while tanking. Moreover FFXIV is not your normal MMOs where most enemies will hit the nearest target OR hit skill users that immediately changes aggro list with a few buttons. The FFXIV aggro system demands some attention from all roles for it to flow properly. Thus this system requires sets of priorities for tanks to follow and adjust accordingly depending on groups you get.

"...attention from all roles for it to flow properly. "
On this and conducted a conversation.

The problem is that players do not win back the position of their roles.
Unfortunately, the class of the tank do not play. I play Summoners, more reliability and assistance.

The Tank is the Head and the Shield of the party. You direct All the game. You hold the enemy, then you chose it's position, it's attack direction and how many enemies hold time by time.
Frequently the DPS don't look what's your target, they simply start to attack, frequently different targets than yours. But you're 54, then you learned how to hold a lot of foes at the same time. That's the work of a tank.
You can try to Mark the mobs, making an order of kill for your party. I use it frequently when in dungeons under lvl 50, expecially in dungeons under lvl 30 why is harder hold the aggro without a tank stance.

About the Trinity... it's the base of this game. In high level raids and trials, if the tank die or is bad to position and hold the boss and the adds, all the party die. If a healer is bad, all the party die. If the dps are low (why there's bad players or why they die under aoe skills), there's no way to end it. If a section is bad there's no way to end the trial.

p.s. sorry for my english

I thank you for your answers and support in the classroom tank.

Currently I am studying DPS classes, watching various meetings with the party side. It turns out my discontent is too soft :-)
Number of tanks leaving the party is too high. I do not think that problem personally invented and described it here.

To come back to the game for a tank class, currently there is no desire.

PS - Trinity system is ignored players to the mechanics of the game there is no problem.

Lol soon as you mentioned Blm I understood your post

Quote:

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I use per session 15-20 Hi-Poition while the doctor treats others.

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Which dungeon are you needing to do this on ? I mean even with dps targeting multi targets there is no need for this. Well except in palace at certain times.

I mean even if dps are targeting multi mobs any dungeon the healer should be able to heal the party fine. Yes they should be targeting tanks target but healer should also be able to deal with unexpected/expected scenarios.

I use Hi-Poition =<45% of the total value of the character's health.
The name of the dungeons are not relevant.

For instance Doctor casts, recovery early in the fight, threatening, adds the tank work, DPS and healing at the end of the tank. I do not expect mercy or death :-)

Even if the Hi-Potion were HQ they still cap at 440 HP, at level 50+ as a tank even lvl 60 HQ Max-Potions don't heal even close to enough HP to be relevant. it sounds like your healers are just bad, but it could also be many other things.

Are you seriously?
I used the example of the Hi-Potion for the DRK 40 lvl.

I do not use Hi-Potion for Paladin 54+ lvl.

Then you are on the right track, but you shouldn't need to use potions after level 15. Even at 60 with the best potions currently in the game (Max-Potion) healing for at most 2400 HP, when as a lvl 60 PLD I have approaching 30,000 HP, the potion is a waste. When I was a lvl 50 PLD I had nearly 10,000 HP, and I still would not have used a Max-Potion if they existed back then. Like I said, sounds like you might have bad healers. I have never met you, I have never seen you play, I can not say it's you or the healers, but try different things, and if you still don't like this game, then I thank you for at least trying it. I hope things get better for you, and if they do not then I hope you find something you can enjoy instead.

Thank you. I'm playing at the moment DPS classes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASPbazi

DPS is expected to increase to 60 lvl, not to wait for assisting the attack?
I go to the dungeon to gain experience, why should I experience at lvl 60?
I tried many times to create a chain of experience, it is useless.
No trinity...

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It's hard to decipher what you are saying, but let me try to re-iterate some of what you are saying so that I can assure we are talking the same language.

You mention trinity multiple times, I assume that you are referring to:

Tank = Meat Shield, enmity generator
Healer = Heals party, primary focus on tank which should have the majority of enmity.
DPS = Does damage to enemy while trying to avoid getting hurt.

Your thought is that FFXIV parties do not adhere to this trinity because the DPS will attack different targets, forcing the healer to heal everyone rather than focusing on the tank.

Well, that's generally true. At lower levels when you are still learning how to tank, Tanks were expected to mark the attack order of enemies so that the DPS can focus on one enemy at a time. Which would make it easier for newbie tanks to learn how to manage enmity. Specially since at lower levels, Tanks have very few enmity tools at their disposal.

At later levels, marking mobs not only becomes unnecessary but a hindrance; it can actually lower the party's performance. However, by this time the tank should be experienced enough to be able to hold hate on multiple enemies, while also having access to more enmity tools.

As more and more players reached end game, the practice of marking enemies has gone away. Experienced players leveling an alternate tank or job have grown accustomed to holding hate on multiple enemies without the need for marking even at lower levels, indirectly influecing newer players with their example.

The key is communication. If you are having trouble holding hate on multiple enemies, start marking an attack order. Generally, the DPS should notice this and kill accordingly. If they don't, tell them what you are trying to do. As long as you're not being an ass about it, people will generally be cooperative.

I refuse to continue to further discus, empty talk.
I have no difficulty in playing the tank mechanics, game logic, I understand.

The quality of the players will eventually be better :-)

We can't chose the players when we start a casual dungeon, we can only hope that they know what they're doing. Anyway there's only few players, expecially at high lvl, that don't know what to do or what's they're roles.
You can find healers that don't heal you enough, leaving you die, why focus more to dps than heal.
You can find dps that don't focus your same target and make you crazy to hold all the mobs, but sometimes is also a way for them to inflict more damage, based on different classes and playstyles.
That don't make the trinity system a joke, that only make your work harder. But with a good equipment and a lot of practice you'll be able to hold any amount of mobs, with 2 black mages that focus on random mobs and spam aoe and a healer that dps more than heal.
No one can make a bad player an excellent one in a dungeon run, but you can try to talk and find a way to play with the players you find time by time.

"Happy End"

I have completed PLD-60 / DRK-60.
Social game and role players at levels much worse (50-60 lvl).

* language Vocabulary (abusive language).
* The quality of the game (Main Scenario-50,voting and party filters).
* tympany and the inadequacy of the players.

I understand that developers are not to blame.
It's nice to play a solo, 1-60 lvl :-)

I think that in your particular case, language barrier might also be bit of an issue. I don't know what your native language is but I'm assuming it's not English. I wouldn't be surprised if some parties just didn't have the patience to try and communicate, and instead just decided to get the stuff done with by themselves.

Having been doing endgame for a long while, I jumped on a new character, and I would normally do other content, did my roulettes to speed up my EXP gains.
In every single run, the other players were clearly watching netflix, and not paying attention to anything. (I dont mean they were new players who didnt know any better, I mean they weren't actually trying, they were nearly AFK most of the run, every run I've had for a month. Let's not even get into how DPS never attack the mob with the lowest HP, and when a mob reached 30% hp, they switch targets, so as not to kill it, even as a melee DPS, and there's no AoE user in the group)

The 2nd boss in Sastasha, I'd start fighting the add on the right, and when its about 10% HP, I switch to the next add.
As expected from duty finder, after about 60-70% of its HP being gone, the 2nd add and boss are now missing 10-25% of their HP, so I have to switch to them early, which is what i expect to happen in duty finder.

But here is the weird thing. No one attacked or tried to kill the 1st add I took down in HP.

I dont mean they went for the boss, and then went back to him, i mean, they got their add down to 50% hp, switched to the boss, and AFKed until he ran away, and then AFKed again.

I had 2 mobs beating on me, and no one is fighting them.

So I kill them myself.

Get to re-fighting him, and I pulled the boss away from where he stands, and the DPS sit there, facing where the enemies used to stand, AFk for like 2mins, before they come back to fight the wrong mob as usual.

But again, they ignore the 1st add, leaving it alive.

So I purposely dont attack it, and wait to see if they ever kill it.... they dont.

I go to the next group of mobs, purposely dragging the add to them, and once again, they leave it alive.

For some reason, DPS in this game cant seem to adjust to me moving the mobs, they stand there trying to spam attacks for 1-2 mins, before they realize there's no mobs in front of them.

out of every sastasha run ive had within the last month, which had to be over 10 runs, I've only had the DPS kill the adds once.

you get healers who start off DPSing at the start, which makes the run great... then by the 3rd pull, they AFK spamming cure. I'll be at full HP, no mobs around, and they are still spamming cure. (Never knew how much threat cures could generate when spammed, they were always like 90-99% of my threat)

This isnt SCHs, this is WHMs. (Heck, had only 1 SCH, and he refused to summon his fairy, and would AFK at each fight, despite being asked to at least bring out his fairy, so it could heal)

The low level dungeons right now are at their all time worst, and I've straight up given up using duty finder as Tank.

I used to be more sensitive, and give up easier on people, but as time went on, I grew a thicker skin, but this is just too atrocious, as I could solo the place better than play with the current people going into duty finder.

Sida
I do not use chat in the game, only the icon salute :-)
You are a good example of my theory.
Language is not a part of the game.

***

Claire_Pendragon
Thanks for the story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

out of every sastasha run ive had within the last month, which had to be over 10 runs, I've only had the DPS kill the adds once

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You don't need to kill the adds in Satasha... Especially the last boss. It just slows the run down.
Overpower alone should be enough to kill the Satasha adds, so them focusing the boss should make the fight takes less time.

DPS generally don't kill mobs with low health in single target mode because the Tank AoE abilities generally take care of them before the last mob dies, so taking them out early is a waste of DPS unless the healer is really struggling or the Tank is running out of TP/MP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASPbazi

Sida
I do not use chat in the game, only the icon salute :-)
You are a good example of my theory.
Language is not a part of the game.

***

Claire_Pendragon
Thanks for the story.

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Hahahaha, language is most certainly part of the game, especially if you need to tell the other players what they are doing wrong.
There's a reason for the chat box. I try not to use it on PS4 (because typing takes forever), but sometimes you just have to.
There's also a reason there's a universal translator for common sayings and useful things.

I do not spend time on chat for all online games.
It's just bytes, rarely with meaning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASPbazi

It's just bytes, rarely with meaning.

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Considering I can't understand you right now, and communication helps me in game, I can see how you'd think that. Because you can't understand other people.
But when you can both understand and be understood, it makes things a lot easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASPbazi

I do not spend time on chat for all online games.
It's just bytes, rarely with meaning.

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Do we have taglines/memes within this community? Because if we do, this should be among them.

Also this thread is a generic, boring, elitist whine-fest. Honestly if someone isn't playing well, is it too much to just give a quick tip or help them out in any way? This passive-aggressive backtalk honestly doesn't solve this "issue" on lack of skilled players and it's kind of a shameful aspect of this community at large.

Really? (LoL).
Stop spam > read the post title.
Oh what a waste of time...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ASPbazi

I do not spend time on chat for all online games.
It's just bytes, rarely with meaning.

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Somehow this makes me feeling your native language might be Finnish.

However, if you really forego all the commmunication, then it is no wonder you have had bad time in group content. While most groups play along the trinity you mentioned well, if one corner is uncommunicative they can skip that corner and just get their stuff done to get rid of the situation. So what you have experienced is not the state of the game. It's the situation you get when you dont communicate. Communication is the key in co-operative group content.