Serious question, but no hope for change.

So, as the title implies, I have a question.

Why is it that 24 man raids only reward 20 Lore? The time investment really doesn't seem balanced with the reward. It would be really great if SE would increase the lore reward for completing Void Ark and Weeping City to something more worthwhile, even if it's only an additional 20 lore which would make the total Lore reward 40 for completing either of the 24 man raids.

I think it's ridiculous that we can queue Expert Duty Roulette and get 75 Lore tomes as a reward for the 18-23 minutes it takes to fight to stay awake while mindlessly grinding our way through whichever dungeon we're queued into, neither of which pose any real challenge nor provide any worthwhile rewards aside from the 75 lore tomes for completing them.

I've had good experiences running Weeping City, yes, but last night I spent an hour per run enduring wipe after wipe before finally being able to clear the raid and it really made me question why the decision was made to have the 24 man raids only reward 20 Lore.

The gear rewards aren't really that great unless you're playing catch up considering the amount of time we had available to gear our jobs with lore gear before Weeping City was added, so aside from glamour, and the very few pieces that we may acquire as temporary upgrades until we replace them with upgraded Lore gear, as well as the one Grade V materia and one of the items necessary to upgrade our Lore gear, the rewards for the amount of time spent and the difficulty of the raid just doesn't seem balanced with the rewards.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I really feel that SE should increase the lore reward for 24 man raids. It just makes sense to reward time invested + difficulty, rather than place the greater lore reward on a short dungeon that provides no real challenge.

I'm sorry. I suppose this thread was more of a rant to vent how I feel, but feedback from anyone else who also feels that the lore reward should be increased could potentially be helpful in regards to making the Community Mods aware that this is an issue that we would like to see addressed. It would be awesome if our feedback was heard and passed on to the dev team, however I'm certainly not going to hold my breath as I have very little hope that SE are going to make any changes to the current rewards offered for content completion.

By that logic alexander savage should give 100 lore.

A few tomes + V Materia + upgrade item + 230 loot seem like good enough rewards for something that takes an hour or less.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

By that logic alexander savage should give 100 lore.

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What would be wrong with that?

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Originally Posted by mp-please

By that logic alexander savage should give 100 lore.

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Tbh, Binding Coil -used- to grant a large proportion of weekly tomestones (50 a turn besides turn 3, so 200 a week out of 300 cap)

SE loves to torture their players and is surprised at the end that nobody wants to run the content anymore. Giving 20 lore is great for players that can't beat the content anyways.

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

What would be wrong with that?

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Nothing, but the way the example was presented is flawed. Mainly when the objective of the instance isn't lore farming.

Expert gives more because they want to funnel everyone into that queue so the people that only have enough time to do 1 roulette a day can still keep up with everyone else. It lowers queue times.

Weeping City has enough incentive right now where the lore isn't really what people are going there for, it's the tier V, upgrade item and non augmented tomestone equivalent gear.

I think my primary concern was that due to the amount of time and effort required to make it through both the good runs, and the bad, until I eventually get my gear drop for the week from Weeping City, it just seems that the lore reward is pretty unbalanced considering the amount of time and effort involved in completing the raid. 20 Lore for an hour of "work" as opposed to 75 Lore from a mindless Expert Dungeon just doesn't seem right, in my own personal opinion. Also, sure Weeping City is not something people would turn to to grind Lore tomes to cap for the week, I understand that, but with people needing to run Weeping City just as much as Expert Roulette, and considering that it's a 24 man raid, it seems that the Lore reward should be increased. Hell, I can participate in two HW A Rank hunts and get 20 Lore, or kill one HW S Rank and get more Lore than I would have gotten from spending an hour running Weeping City.

Time invested + having to deal with whether or not the other 23 people in the raid can properly execute/avoid mechanics should be more rewarding as far as Lore tomes are concerned. Also, as the OP indicates, I'm not even requesting that great of an increase to the reward, just a simple 20 additional Lore, with hopes that a Community mod could pass on the request to the dev team if enough people also felt that the Lore reward should be increased.

I do appreciate all of the feedback so far!

You're discounting the rewards that Mhach offers otherwise and making it specifically about one aspect. It offers the following, as someone stated above: an i230 gear piece, some of which are actually BiS such as the Black Mage chest, yes better than the i240. A token to upgrade said i230 Lore gear to i240, a token that provides you with a free pice of Grade V materia of your choice, 100 Tomestones of Esoterics and 20 Tomestones of Lore. And of course the other chest drops like the Coffin Lid, minion, and orchestrion rolls.

It isn't all about Lore. I disagree that it is imbalanced considering the other rewards that are offered. Especially considering you listed other examples of how easy it is to get Lore.

I'm not necessarily discounting the other rewards by any means. I'm simply requesting that, at the very least, the lore reward be increased to 40 tomes of lore to make all of the runs after the first run of the week more worthwhile considering that in most cases I, and I'm sure many others, have to run Weeping City numerous times each week in order to finally get a piece of gear that we are content with being the only piece of gear that we can get for the week.

Should I change my question to, "Do you feel that the lore reward for running Weeping City and Void Ark should be increased to 40 tomes due to the amount of time invested plus having to rely on 23 other people to actually execute/avoid mechanics properly?"

I think my request isn't asking for much. I do see that apparently no one else, or very, very, few people are in agreement with the request, but when you're running a 24 man, in this case Weeping City, and you want to smash your head into your desk because people keep wiping the entire raid because they can't properly execute/avoid mechanics, you get no loot because RNG isn't on your side that run, and you leave the raid with a measly 20 lore after investing an hour of your time to the raid, isn't it reasonable to feel that the lore reward should be at least a little bit better?

Also, anyone mentioning the Coffin Lid and Cards as worthwhile rewards...I don't play triple triad, and I don't craft, and the one time I did get a lid I found that it was worth approximately 20,000 gil on my server, which is a completely insignificant amount of gil.

Edit: I really don't care about Void Ark rewarding 40 tomes. That's faceroll bs content now. However, if SE could exclusively increase the lore reward for Weeping City, while it's relevant content, that would be awesome.

Lore is built up to buy i230 gear. To buy this gear you need to invest a week or even 2 weeks of Lore.

The Weeping City drops i230 gear. This can be done in a single run (though RNG based of course).

The Lore is reduced because you are already getting higher level gear from the raid itself. If you don't like the Lore reward then don't use it for Lore, plain and simple.

I'm not using Weeping City for Lore. I'm attempting to get my 1 weekly gear drop whenever I run Weeping City, however, with RNG it's not guaranteed that I will get a drop and there's no telling how many times in a week I will have to run Weeping City to get my 1 weekly piece of gear. So, all I'm requesting is that for the time and effort invested in all of the runs in which I don't get a drop, don't get a lore upgrade item, or a matter, that the lore reward be a little bit greater than a measly 20 lore.

If someone has to spend an hour in a 24 man raid and the only thing that they get out of it is 20 lore, it seems a little ridiculous to me that 18-23 minutes can get the same person 75 lore for running a boring so called "Expert" Duty Roulette. What's so Expert about the Expert Duty Roulette dungeons anyway? How long has it been since any dungeon labeled as Expert has required an "Expert" to be able to complete the dungeon. It's faceroll bs content. Simply requesting an additional 20 lore to make the total lore reward for running Weeping City 40 lore isn't asking for much. Or is it?

It seems a lot of people do not welcome change in this regard. I don't understand why, but I frequent the forums and am pretty accustomed to seeing most ideas and requests being shut down for no real game play impacting reason. So, the amount of nonsupportive feedback, while welcome, doesn't affect my stance on the issue. If someone has to spend an hour in a 24 man raid and endure the bs that comes along with that, you know the people who run around like chickens with their heads cut off when they are supposed to be correctly placing their meteor but instead wipe their party, can't seem to avoid megadeath, can't seem to stop doing anything before acceleration bombs timer reaches 0, etc. and cause the raid to have to repeatedly fight the same boss over and over and over again to the point that it really isn't even fun anymore, but you want to stick with it cause you know they'll eventually get it and you want to complete the run and any chance you have at a drop and get the piddly little lore reward cause damn it's been an hour in here screw Vote Abandon let's just get this done, all this effort should be rewarded with a guaranteed decent reward. At least 40 lore.

I don't see what the problem is. No, I'm not trying to cap lore by running Weeping City, but after putting up with what we have to put up with in that particular raid when it's not the greatest of groups, 40 lore is barely worthwhile compensation for the time spent, the frustration, and if you didn't get a gear drop....knowing that you have to run Weeping City again!

Hmmmm. Don't want to come off as seeming angry. I'm really not. Just trying to put out a better description of the way that I'm thinking about this.

Again, it's an additional 20 lore that I am requesting be added to the guaranteed reward for running and completing the raid. Is that gamebreaking? No. Will it make people feel a little bit better about the time they invested in the raid when they didn't get anything out of it? For me, yes. For others, I hope so. Can anyone else get behind the idea of increasing the lore reward for completing Weeping City to 40 tomes of Lore?

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Originally Posted by MugenMugetsu

So, as the title implies, I have a question.

Why is it that 24 man raids only reward 20 Lore? The time investment really doesn't seem balanced with the reward.

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To put it simply... Rewards are there not for time involved but to incentivize participation. There are a myriad of reasons to participate in the 24 man content. There is NOT a myriad of reasons to complete a daily dungeon roulette. Without the high Lore reward for your daily expert/Lvl60 roulette's the participation would dwindle and queue times would go through the roof. Personally, I am surprised that "Adventurer in Need" bonuses haven't expanded to include Lore/Esoteric/Poetics because queue times for a non tank/non healer for most content can be tremendously long.

Lore is stupid easy to get. No need to make it even easier.

Weeping City - 20 Lore
Expert Dungeon - 40 Lore

Want more? Ask for 24 man raid roulette.

Everyone keeps mentioning the "other" rewards, but those are locked weekly, not daily. Would anyone be opposed to offering the OP's 40 Lore tomes to those who have already received all of their items for the week?

Frankly, I'm tired of the same two dungeons myself. Say what you will about Mhach, but...no two runs are ever the same, haha. Let me have some variety in how I cap for the week!

i dont see anything wrong with upping raid tomestones, and i definitely dont disagree that, at the least they offer a bonus tomestone for first weekly clear, i mean 24 mans can go wrong horribly depending on your luck, upping the rewards might make some people a little more serious about trying to clear, sd far as 8 mans and following the 2.0. 2.1 route i see no problem with this, time incested risk./reward, the 24 mans especially weeping city require all parties to be at the mercy of other parties, id agree to add a little more as well

It's so ridiculous that the vast majority of comments in this thread are in opposition to having the lore reward for completing 24 man raids upped to a measly 40 lore. As if the request is "game breaking" or causing any detriment to anyone. I believe I ran Weeping City 9 times last week, going for the Nin boots. I never saw them drop. I had to endure 9 runs of Weeping City. 9 hours of my time rewarded with just 180 tomes of lore. In 9 hours I could have capped lore for the week by simply running mind numbing, faceroll, dungeons, but instead I devoted my time to something, with a bit of a challenge, which was to the benefit of 23 other people, each run, but I'm just supposed to sit and accept that the reward is 20 lore, the penny and the matter the first run, and only 20 lore each additional run, even though RNGesus was not on my side and I didn't even get a gear drop for the week.

Why is it that we can not be more welcoming of upping the lore reward for 24 man raids? It certainly doesn't hurt anything, and can only be a benefit to everyone.

I swear. It seems like anything nice, or anything at all that could improve the game, that is asked for on these forums is guaranteed to have a good number of people join the discussion just to voice their opposition of the addition of whatever it is that is being requested.

Because most are content with simplicity that it doesn't bother them. Can't make things too complicated or drastic. It might break the system

i agree with this for two reasons, while i think the rewards they already offer is plenty, those rewards are pure RNG and weekly.

ive ran weeping city 12 times last week and not once did the gear piece i want drop.


after ive gotten my gear piece, however, why would i want to run it again? friends ask me to que with them all the time, and i do even f it has no benefits to me. however i still feel i should be rewarded for completing the duty multiple times after ive already ran it, it would definantly help que times after the first 2 or 3 days where most everyones gotten it done for the week

Because you're doing them for the lore-equivalent gear, not for the actual currency.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Because you're doing them for the lore-equivalent gear, not for the actual currency.

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So wouldn't my suggestion work? If you've already received your 230 drop for the week, then completing the instance additional times rewards you 20 bonus Tomestones of Lore, for a total of 40.

I agree that it should get a bump but only a slight bump to 30.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

So wouldn't my suggestion work? If you've already received your 230 drop for the week, then completing the instance additional times rewards you 20 bonus Tomestones of Lore, for a total of 40.

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sure but i'd much rather get Esoterics for when my Lore is capped from everything in the game that gives me Lore. even if it's just 1 Esoteric for every 1 Lore.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

sure but i'd much rather get Esoterics for when my Lore is capped from everything in the game that gives me Lore. even if it's just 1 Esoteric for every 1 Lore.

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This is also not a bad suggestion, though I'm not sure SE is really interested in indirectly pushing people out of the "non-current dungeons" roulettes.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

This is also not a bad suggestion, though I'm not sure SE is really interested in indirectly pushing people out of the "non-current dungeons" roulettes.

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why would it push people out?

I agree with Sendoh. In regards to bumping the lore reward for 24 man raids, and even bumping up the esoterics rewards for those raids, it would not push anyone out of the roulettes by any means. It would give more incentive to run the 24 man raids which would hopefully keep the queue times short as people would be interested in running them even if they already received their 1 weekly gear drop from Weeping City. I enjoy running Weeping City, as I find the raid to be a lot of fun, however 20 lore doesn't necessarily motivate me to want to run Weeping City after I have already received my drops for the week. However, the lore reward for running roulettes is much higher and roulettes take only a fraction of the time it takes to run a 24 man raid, so of course people will still run roulettes, and with roulettes resetting on a daily basis, people would still run their roulettes every day, or as often as they'd like.

This thread isn't really getting a whole lot of support, or attention, and any hope for an increase of the lore reward for running Weeping City seems to be nonexistent, but if anyone else also feels that it would be a benefit if the lore reward for the 24 man raids was increased, it would be nice if you could also comment in support. If enough of us are in support of the idea we might be able to get the idea passed on to the dev team, but if there is very little support I don't see anything coming of this request.

Thanks again to everyone who has commented in support of, or in opposition of, increasing the lore reward. Your feedback is appreciated!