The State of FFXIV: A Followup

So, a few days ago I posted a thread that was to act as a survey of players' thoughts on the current state of a number of systems in the game as well as the game overall. This was following a couple of other threads that tried to discuss the same thing, which I give credit to for sparking the discussion in the first place. Now that incoming votes on the strawpolls I put up have slowed to a trickle, I want to discuss their results and go into depth on what I believe are good solutions that would please the highest number of people.

But before I do, I want to discuss the polls themselves. Despite getting praise for being far less biased than the previous poll that tried to tackle this subject, there were still some concerns from people on reddit about my poll options having too much flavour, to the point where some even accused me of trying to push a certain agenda. This was not my intent, and in the future I will try to make poll options that are less flavourful in the interest of not biasing the results. As for the accusations of trying to push an agenda, if this was my intent then I failed miserably as some of the poll results were not at all where I personally stand on those topics. But put simply, no, I was not trying to force my opinion to be the one people tended towards in these polls, and I apologize if you got that feeling from my survey.

So to let this lead somewhat naturally into the discussion of the poll results, which one(s) did I not personally agree with the consensus of? There were two that really surprised me, Raiding and Gear Progression.

RAIDING

Poll Results

I'll start off with my thoughts on raiding, and why I think that the results of that one don't point the game in a good direction if followed. So as you can see, there were two options that were very close in votes. One was the return to the coil system/delay the easy mode of the raid, for the purpose of giving people more motivation to do difficult raids by having an early look at the story be the carrot. The other was to introduce more difficulty levels so everyone has something that suits them. The first problem should be pretty clear, these two options are polar opposites. As such, if you were to try and please both crowds you'd end up in a situation where you're removing and adding a difficulty at the same time which makes no sense, or more realistically either introducing a middle-ground difficulty or an extremely tough difficulty and delaying some number of these difficulty levels. I think this would only serve to further fragment the playerbase, and would do so in a very confusing manner. Hell, I'm getting confused just writing this.

But all that said, I do have a personally preferred solution that I'm going to suggest here, that I think would at least appease the "more difficulties" crowd, and still leave the option to please the "bring back Coil style" crowd as well. What I mean by that is I'm not sure where I stand on the potential delaying of the easy mode of the raids, but I do think they should still exist for reasons that were made very obvious back in the Coil days. As for what I'd like to see for the harder difficulty, my idea is to see the difficulty slightly lowered in the encounters themselves. In my ideal world, raid tiers would be five bosses, three at/around the difficulty of A5S, one at the difficulty of A7S, and then the final boss sitting around the difficulty of pre-nerf A6S except tuned to higher gear values. "But that will be cleared really fast, what will the hardcore players do after?" Challenges.

FFLogs has already started doing this, with each fight having a certain challenge that players can do which makes the encounter more difficult to complete than just doing it entirely as intended. My idea is effectively for the devs to put this system directly into the game. "But why is this necessary when FFLogs already does it?" Not a lot of people use FFLogs, and even fewer know this feature exists there at all. Also, if it were to be implemented by the devs themselves, it would be getting implemented by people who know exactly how the encounters work and as such could ensure that all challenges were doable, but only really manageable for a group that has already progressed through the entire tier.

As for rewards, at bare minimum this would need to work similarly to how SCoB Savage worked, where you get an achievement and a title for completing it the first time. If the goal is to make people want to complete them multiple times rather than being a one-and-done sort of deal, then my idea would be to reward every player in the raid with one extra Manifesto page whenever they complete the challenge, with usual weekly limits applied to that reward. This way, people who have finished the tier and just want to get their gear can do so more quickly, and can even use this to improve their item level on alt jobs more quickly. This helps address the old complaint about how due to current weekly limits everywhere the armoury system can't be used to its full potential. While it doesn't do so immensely, in my opinion it does enough so that players should have less room to make this complaint. Of course, that's just in the case that you don't want it to be one-and-done like Savage SCoB was.

GEAR PROGRESSION

Poll Results

This leads me into the next topic, Gear Progression. Similar to raiding, there was a clear split in player opinion, resulting in two options being very close in votes and fighting for the top spot. While these two don't directly oppose each other like the raiding options did, they can't exactly be compromised on. One wants the current system to remain, with a few more options here and there, and the other is asking for a fundamental restructuring of gear in this game. Frankly, I don't have a solid idea for either.

We've seen an attempt at adding alternative gearing methods through the Diadem, which did great for a while but eventually died off for a number of reasons including being extremely boring in most people's eyes and the rewards no longer seeming worth it. Perhaps they will learn from earlier mistakes when Diadem gets revamped in 3.4 or 3.5, whenever it happens, or maybe they'll take it in a whole different direction where direct gear rewards aren't involved at all. But neither of these will satisfy the players who want a fundamental restructuring and rewards with more longevity than what we currently have. But honestly speaking, I don't know what exactly would satisfy them, or if satisfying them would even end up actually being good for the game. No solution I can see coming from that camp would do anything to help the complaints of the armoury system being painfully underutilized, and having large gaps in gear between different sets of players could introduce a whole new set of problems to be dealt with. If you're in this camp, please tell me your suggestions, because I'm at a total loss.

STATS

Poll Results

Stats is the next topic, and here's where things get a bit easier, as this has been one of the bigger points of discussion. This is a topic I've talked about my own ideas for at length, have gotten other solid discussion on in the threads I've been involved in and due to a recent interview has even picked up traction in a thread I've not been involved in.

Since the discussion on this is already plentiful, I'll keep this section short. The poll for this one was relatively balanced, with most people at least wanting some change, but a lot of people also thinking not much change is needed, if any at all. My personal stance is that small changes are all we really need in a lot of areas, replacing one or two of the more boring stats with stuff that's more interesting, having a general design philosophy of stats needing to be felt rotationally to be truly worthwhile and that philosophy leading to additions such as something like the Mastery stat in WoW and changes to stats such as Skill Speed and Determination to make them more viable or interesting respectively. It'd be nice to have more, with things like Materia that add bonus effects or set bonuses or even a new gear slot for something like a trinket, where the piece of gear gives you a new cooldown or something, but these changes would take a lot of time to correct an issue that I believe has a simpler solution.

CONTENT RELEASE

Poll Results

Lastly on the specialized topic list we have Content Release. I'm genuinely amazed that over 1% of respondents actually believe that the devs are already deviating too far from the formula, though I'll concede that these could just be troll votes, especially considering how it got less votes than other options I left in other polls that would attract such votes. Honestly speaking, I'm of the opinion that with the upcoming revamp to Diadem and Deep Dungeon being just a few weeks away, I'd be okay if they kept up the current trends in content release. And most people seem to agree to some extent, that the current formula is really not that bad and just needs a bit more experimentation and maybe a couple minor alterations as a result of that experimentation. This experimentation could also leave room for solutions to other problems, by allowing these new types of content to drop different gear which may have more interesting stats or effects. Or they could just give us broken Pinks again... but I've been trying to remain positive in all these discussions, so let's leave that where it lies, shall we?

CONCLUSION

Overall State of XIV Poll Results

Overall, the state of the game is not considered to be that bad. Over half of the people who responded to the survey said that at most the game needs a few fundamental changes here and there, but is working from a solid enough base that they think only small changes are needed if any at all. Also of note, that group of people who said that these polls will do nothing and I should stop trying to care. The group that's even larger than the group who thinks that the devs are already straying too far from the content formula. Yet that's smaller than the group who claims to have quit a while ago and is only assuming what the current state of the game is. Still, to this group I want to be clear. I want discussion to take place. I want the dev team to take note of how much traction threads like this have been gaining, especially since the E3 Live Letter and following interviews. If they see how much we care about these things, they'd be crazy to not at least reconsider certain positions they've taken, and possibly even consider some of the things that players are suggesting.

And to the community team, these threads will continue. You know as well as any of us that players are clamouring for these changes, and have been for a very long time. Let our voices be heard. Relay these thoughts and suggestions to the dev team. Trust us, as dedicated players we want nothing more than for this game to be the best it can be, and while we may not always agree on what that means, we know that right now it means there needs to be change in a number of areas. So please, don't just pass on this as "another topic about horizontal progression." Listen to us. Let the team know that there are plenty of ways the players think these changes could be made without causing the problems they keep telling us are inevitable if they try. We can make this game what it's meant to be. Thank you for reading through all of this, and I look forward to seeing even more great discussion on this amazing game and how it can be even further improved.

I really like the idea of easing up on savage, but then having the extra challenges and minor reward for completing said challenges. It reminds of of Ulduar in WoW where fights could play out a bit differently if you opted into them.

You are the hero eorzea needs, and on the topic of gear progression it seems that many want tomes removed or some other system to work around but that a guaranteed way to obtain relevant gear for everyone should still be available... sorry couldn't find post I was looking for.

And yes this is vague... but that's what other people seem to generally be emenating.

Personally i feel this tome issue would be resolved for most of the community with just more interesting and dynamic dungeon ideas (look for the thread) which would make the grind more fun, like maybe adding aquapolis'esque rng into the equation for dungeons but still have a baseline reward coupled with more unique dungeon layout

I only have two problems with this game is probably how the stats work and the relic.

I only played WoW again for around a month recently but I didn't look back at the stats. If I recall, mastery gave you a certain bonus to something depending on what spec you were correct? I don't see how that would fit into FFXIV unless they introduced something for all the classes that could apply as bonus's for them. Parry I been told is still useless but that is really the only unused stat for tanks. They could either get rid of it or meld it with something else to reduce the number of stats to focus on.

The other is less gear progression and more on the relic. I admit that I do feel good about getting my relic done (already got the i240) but I know that it is gonna become pointless by the next patch or whenever we can upgrade it again. It would be nice to have it so that it remains relevant. Be a way of rewarding us for the effort and grind we put into these relic weapons.

The only reason I resubbed for next month is because of my in-game friends, but FFXIV is decent at what it does.

My problem with raiding isn't the content itself, it's more the nature of FFXIV. Either your FC/group roleplays and crafts in front of the house all day, or they're cutting edge progression.

Midas got good reactions from the players it was made for.

As far as raiding goes: Why not make savage just that, savage? I am fairly certain that the developers have no problem making encounters so hard that there simply isn't a 100% guaranteed success for each group each week. As far as I can tell Savage simply is a mode for people who have the time to do practise these things. After a week or two, along with a few tome gear upgrades, savage becomes easy enough to be on farm status one month into the current patch cycle*, resulting in these people practically skipping any incentive to get gear this and the upcomming patch until the next savage raid is released.

I'd say make it hard enough that only 5% of all player clear the raid during the current patch, that way people who have a genuine interest in the challange it provides get their fun. Along with that should go more focus on midcore content though.

*Gordias was the exception. And while me and my group actually liked the raid being absolutely unforgivable the tears in the community showed that people had less interest in a challange and seemed to be more interested in racing midly hard content to get the best gear asap.

You do a big work doing this, but, the forums are the 0.1% of the playerbase, or even less, so does not probe anything. And I can tell you I know a lot of people who simply don't want a change in the game. That 0.1% cannot demand a change in the game. That's my opinion here. I prefer stay as is it and let this to the devs.

And specially about FFlogs. Sorry but not. FFlogs is a system to show DPS performance and other stuff. We don't need such rankings in the game. People shouldn't be focused on DPS ot stay on top of this ranks. That thing is better far away a possible of the game. Only used by those who wants, outside the game itself. Or you will turn this into a DPS race. Don't turn this game into a competitive shit, let as it is now.

Also becareful with put that web. Show DPS meters is not allowed and you can get banned, because you can access to the data of people / raid who use this webby simply searching their name.

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Originally Posted by Waterdeep

As far as raiding goes: Why not make savage just that, savage? I am fairly certain that the developers have no problem making encounters so hard that there simply isn't a 100% guaranteed success for each group each week. As far as I can tell Savage simply is a mode for people who have the time to do practise these things. After a week or two, along with a few tome gear upgrades, savage becomes easy enough to be on farm status one month into the current patch cycle*, resulting in these people practically skipping any incentive to get gear this and the upcomming patch until the next savage raid is released.

I'd say make it hard enough that only 5% of all player clear the raid during the current patch, that way people who have a genuine interest in the challange it provides get their fun. Along with that should go more focus on midcore content though.

*Gordias was the exception. And while me and my group actually liked the raid being absolutely unforgivable the tears in the community showed that people had less interest in a challange and seemed to be more interested in racing midly hard content to get the best gear asap.

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Why not make Savage savage? Well, you sort of touch on it in your little note below the rest of your post, but the fact is that having content that is at a more moderate difficulty is more important. A lot of people look at Savage SCoB and see it as a failure, but I disagree. I think what should be taken from that is that there's a clear demand for extremely difficult content, but that it's not what the primary progression raid should be, as that will shrink the raid scene to a non-sustainable size. Make it hard enough that only 5% of all players can clear? I'm fairly certain even with Midas we're currently below that, and might just remain below that all the way to 3.4. And I can say for certain that Gordias was significantly south of that value while it was relevant.

Now, as I sort of said in my main post, I think the current difficulty level of Midas is good, but to maintain a sustainable raid scene we may need to take one more step in the direction of easing the difficulty, back to the level we saw in FCoB. But since the desire for extremely difficult content is still there, I don't want that taken away completely, so I believe that my Challenges suggestion would be the best way to cater to both crowds. The slightly less skilled raiders or raiders with more restricted time can still get through the raid at a reasonable pace, and for the hardcore players who do the standard difficulty in a week, they can move on to racing through the challenges.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

You do a big work doing this, but, the forums are the 0.1% of the playerbase, or even less, so does not probe anything. And I can tell you I know a lot of people who simply don't want a change in the game. That 0.1% cannot demand a change in the game. That's my opinion here. I prefer stay as is it and let this to the devs.

And specially about FFlogs. Sorry but not. FFlogs is a system to show DPS performance and other stuff. We don't need such rankings in the game. People shouldn't be focused on DPS ot stay on top of this ranks. That thing is better far away a possible of the game. Only used by those who wants, outside the game itself. Or you will turn this into a DPS race. Don't turn this game into a competitive shit, let as it is now.

Also becareful with put that web. Show DPS meters is not allowed on ToS and you can get banned, because you can access to the data of people / raid who use this webby simply searching their name.

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Maybe try reading my actual suggestion rather than just noping out at the mere sight of FFLogs. If I happen to get banned for linking there, then so be it. The forums will have just lost a strong voice advocating for the betterment of this game. The fact is I'm suggesting a feature, unrelated to the scary dps parsing you refer to, that exists on that website. And I can tell you that I know a lot of people who are tired of the stagnating state of this game, and that your players who say they don't want change would not actually be opposed to the changes I'm suggesting in most cases.

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

Challenges.

FFLogs has already started doing this

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I already suggested this, i think it's the right thing to do, this would please the hardcore audience, they should just make it coil difficulty and add challenges.

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

"But why is this necessary when FFLogs already does it?" Not a lot of people use FFLogs

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Not just that, to use FFLogs people need a 3rd party tool that's not allowed...

The midcore raiding void is really starting to hurt now as we move into the later part of the expansion. I have essentially run out of stuff that I want to do and I am left with stuff that I feel I must do, ie. dallies so I don't fall too far behind. In the past, I relied upon raiding to keep me going as a good static is fun to run with even on repetitive content but after Gojira...err... Alexander walked through the raiding scene, we are left with just wreckage. I know the devs hope that the Raid Finder would help, and maybe it will in Japan but I do not see it working in the NA / EU regions. Too many people are still fleeing to the last remaining bastions of raiding, Gilgamesh, to find teams.

If I could ask the Devs to do one thing about raiding is that they need to make sure the midcore raids are rock solid before going harder. 2nd coil had it right, start off at a medium level, ease it in the following patch for the people who want a story mode and add a harder mode at the same time you ease it for those who want a challenge and a title / minion / mount. It worked, people loved it, and the numbers support it.

To those who want their raids OMGWT*BBQ hard... try doing them with less gear on or less people on the team, bam, there is your crazy hard raid. This "hard is fun" and "git gud" stuff is a real punch in the face and is ruining the game for a lot of us.


P.S. The whole everybody is a DPS thing, please end that too. If I want to tank, let me tank. If I want to heal, let me heal. Having Tanks and healers feel like they must do huge DPS numbers on raids... no, please, no. Yes I am a bit jaded over the fact that I didn't get onto a raid team because I couldn't do 450 DPS while solo healing A5S, if I want to DPS, I'd roll a DPS.

Dangit Jim, I'm a healer, not a weapons system!

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

Why not make Savage savage? Well, you sort of touch on it in your little note below the rest of your post, but the fact is that having content that is at a more moderate difficulty is more important. A lot of people look at Savage SCoB and see it as a failure, but I disagree.

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I personally don't think S.SCoB was a failure for what it is supposed to do (provide a challenge). Alexander is doing the same thing, but the "Raiding content" from those that have a static but aren't hardcore (midcore in other words) have had their content taken away in favor of something akin to the 24-man weekly clears. It's that gap in the middle that's caused such a big problem espeically during Gordias, when savage is now the to-go difficulty for your typical static, compared to say FCoB or even SCoB.

I'm not too surprised by the results aside from the split opinions on gear progression. FF14 gearing compared to other themepark mmos is, imo, the best it can be. The other alternatives for a vertical progression system are far worse (usually because they are reliant on rng) or it would require implementing a gearing system not at all designed for a mmo with the type of content and release schedule FF14 has.

That aside I agree with the OP's thoughts on raiding and have had a similar idea for a while now. In short revert it back to one difficulty that is more accessible/forgiving than current savage but implement a challenge/achievement system with each tier. The pet/mount/title for that tier can also be locked behind that system so statics that manage to complete all the challenges have something to show for it.

I'm mostly ok with stats. I'd love for them to improve parry of course and I've never been a fan of accuracy since it feels like a nuisance having to hit certain caps. I also don't think the game will become horribly broken if a few proc abilities were applied to some weapons or armor set bonuses were introduced. Ideally having a reforge system like what WoW used to have would also be a nice qol addition since the gap with bis will narrow.

Overall the devs are doing fine with their content release. They stick to the formula that works but they do slip in some new side activity roughly every major patch. While some people view such content as pointless I nonetheless appreciate them experimenting with things like chocobo racing, diadem and vermillion.

So yeah in conclusion I think the game is still doing pretty well currently despite the... mistakes made between 3.0 and 3.2. There will be some major hurdles in the future though such as additional ability bloat with the next xpac and lessening/avoiding the gating process for new players as the game continues to age.

So the general consensus is that people want change.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

The midcore raiding void is really starting to hurt now as we move into the later part of the expansion. I have essentially run out of stuff that I want to do and I am left with stuff that I feel I must do, ie. dallies so I don't fall too far behind. In the past, I relied upon raiding to keep me going as a good static is fun to run with even on repetitive content but after Gojira...err... Alexander walked through the raiding scene, we are left with just wreckage. I know the devs hope that the Raid Finder would help, and maybe it will in Japan but I do not see it working in the NA / EU regions. Too many people are still fleeing to the last remaining bastions of raiding, Gilgamesh, to find teams.

If I could ask the Devs to do one thing about raiding is that they need to make sure the midcore raids are rock solid before going harder. 2nd coil had it right, start off at a medium level, ease it in the following patch for the people who want a story mode and add a harder mode at the same time you ease it for those who want a challenge and a title / minion / mount. It worked, people loved it, and the numbers support it.

To those who want their raids OMGWT*BBQ hard... try doing them with less gear on or less people on the team, bam, there is your crazy hard raid. This "hard is fun" and "git gud" stuff is a real punch in the face and is ruining the game for a lot of us.


P.S. The whole everybody is a DPS thing, please end that too. If I want to tank, let me tank. If I want to heal, let me heal. Having Tanks and healers feel like they must do huge DPS numbers on raids... no, please, no. Yes I am a bit jaded over the fact that I didn't get onto a raid team because I couldn't do 450 DPS while solo healing A5S, if I want to DPS, I'd roll a DPS.

Dangit Jim, I'm a healer, not a weapons system!

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The only issue I see with lowering Savage's difficulty is then it becomes another piece of content you just kind of... do. Such is why I tend to lean towards developing a midcore scene in lieu of scaling Savage into one. Looking back on 2.x patches, we simply got more content. What I think could help balance things better is going back to three dungeons, but at least one is scaled much higher. Not to any pressing degrees of difficulty. Just enough to pose a slight challenge. You add that to more Primals and/or equivalent level content and there wouldn't be this massive gap between players. Granted, at the same time, they don't need a Savage, especially given the clears Alex has seen.

Can't say I disagree on healing though. Sadly, it seems DPS centric content is a shift in the MMO genre itself. A lot of people simply wouldn't pick tanks/healers, which is why they made both have so many DPS abilities. Still, I would like to see content with mechanics purposely designed to focus those roles more into what they are. Perhaps keeping enmity on one particular boss becomes much more difficult, so the tank can't just switch into DPSing. Likewise, he spits out attacks quickly enough the healers wouldn't have time to DPS much.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The only issue I see with lowering Savage's difficulty is then it becomes another piece of content you just kind of... do. Such is why I tend to lean towards developing a midcore scene in lieu of scaling Savage into one. Looking back on 2.x patches, we simply got more content. What I think could help balance things better is going back to three dungeons, but at least one is scaled much higher. Not to any pressing degrees of difficulty. Just enough to pose a slight challenge. You add that to more Primals and/or equivalent level content and there wouldn't be this massive gap between players. Granted, at the same time, they don't need a Savage, especially given the clears Alex has seen.

Can't say I disagree on healing though. Sadly, it seems DPS centric content is a shift in the MMO genre itself. A lot of people simply wouldn't pick tanks/healers, which is why they made both have so many DPS abilities. Still, I would like to see content with mechanics purposely designed to focus those roles more into what they are. Perhaps keeping enmity on one particular boss becomes much more difficult, so the tank can't just switch into DPSing. Likewise, he spits out attacks quickly enough the healers wouldn't have time to DPS much.

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The thing is, I don't really think we're talking about the kind of difficulty reduction that would make Savage the way you described. As I've said a bunch of times in the past, Midas right now is just about the perfect difficulty level, where most of the fights are around or slightly above FCoB levels with only A8S being a real outlier to that. So when I say reduce the difficulty level, understand that I mean reduce it very slightly, and only really on the front of the final boss encounters. As for making other content more difficult, I think we're already starting to see a shift in that direction in the past couple of patches. Weeping City, Final Steps, heck, even Midas normal wasn't really faceroll at first, and only really became so once people got more gear. I'm not going to object to the idea of adding more content either, it's just a matter of what's reasonable to ask for given constraints on both time and manpower.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

snip

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I think Astro was a shift in the right direction for healers, as it shifted the focus from "heal & DPS" to "heal & support". Let's be honest, DPSing as an Astro is the dullest thing in the world until you get Gravity, and that's just a poorman's Holy. While the cards could have been implemented better they did, at least, and a new dynamic to the general healer's role. And considering the cards with Time Dilation, CU, Disable, and CO, they really help to cement their additional role as support, as well, rather than a just another healer that can DPS. Now if only Stella was useful...

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

So the general consensus is that people want change.

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More accurately it seems people want minor changes. Tweak to stats, a bit more diversity in alternative content ect... The two biggest changes are Raids where people either want more options or a revert to Coils and gearing where people want more options or to experiment with a different (presumably more rng) system. Still I get the general feeling that most people are content even if the game is not quite in the ideal state for them.

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Originally Posted by Genaxx

So the general consensus is that people want change.

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I don't know about that. Although the poster was quickly argued against, a valid statement was made earlier. This is only a poll of the forum. There's no way of knowing how accurate the results are. Forum readers who were uninterested in the topic to begin with likely never bothered to click, and I'd wager a great majority of people who play don't bother with the forums at all. Personally, I only read the forums when I'm eating (for extra salt? hah) and rarely comment at all. As a lurker in that sense, I've noted a trend with threads like this. In the end it typically boils down to people who already agreed with each other validating one another's opinions. I know that sounds dismissive but I'm not trying to be rude. It's just the way it is.

So, how to get a more accurate idea of what the population wants? One way this might be achieved is to bring back the player's polls of 1.2x on the lodestone along with a launcher event ad pointing to them. That way, even those who can't be arsed to forum might spend a few minutes to make their opinions known too. Until something like that happens, I think basing future game development on straw polls and forum sentiment is a very bad idea.