Nerf, Buff, Change, New Class

I have been on and off from Final Fantasy XIV since the release of 1.0, Can you relate that you have been looking to replace the old Vanilla or Pre-Abyssea MMO, accepting or hoping that what's next might be just what you were looking for?

From a personal stand point, I like how organized FFXIV feels, after playing games like Blade and Soul, where you literally can be matched up in a level 25 dungeon with 50's that rush through everything, one shotting it all and expecting you to just keep up, 50 menu options of only 3 buttons that you use 90% of the time, I'm satisfied with how FFXIV 'feels' - Until it comes to the jobs.

With the addition of Ninja, I regained much of the hope that FFXIV would start to sow the seed and regrow it's old roots, learning from previous mistakes from FFXI (One expansion now allows you to get what everyone else took 5 years to get in a month) and not making them again.

Machinist wasn't exactly what we needed in our roster and being such a brilliant community, many of you have been able to take a potato and make steak, Dark Knight being a tank was understandably necessary to help balance the roster of choices when it came to que and wait times, similarly with the addition of Astrologian, one of the coolest healing ideas I have ever seen (I love Science and Space).

Unfortunately, I have to ask, did you give up? Dark Knight was a sacrificial DPS, putting a heavy load of damage taken to end fights quickly, The Machinist is a neat idea, but how practical is it really with Bard already an option, Where is Ninja's Ustusemi along with the weapon skills that put the eastern theme at the forefront? Blade: Chi,Blade: Jin, Blade Ku? The elemental wheel that was not just flashy but could help increase weapon skill based damage, adding strategy to Black Mage, team work?

Look at any result of googling "FFXIV 3.0/3.5/4.0" etc and you will see people speculating on new classes already and in the past, I feel a psychological reason for this is because the appetite of "Final Fantasy" is not being satisfied, if you look even closer you'll notice many pouring hope and wishes into these rumors and ideas that they are anything close to the old MMO Final Fantasy XI. I implore you look at year(s) old threads or more that speculate the original Dark Knight and Ninja and how they are nothing like many hoped.

So where does this put us? The front page of these threads continue to ask for changes, revisions or speculate on new jobs and content. The desire from this community no matter where you look is holding on to that thread of hope that each update and patch is going to release something or make some sort of change that brings this closer to home in Vana'diel, and I completely understand.

We could start anywhere, Summoner would be a great one, The story certainly tells us that we can't handle summoning the full version of Summons, but through the interesting power of change, we can summon Bahamut's incredible ability through channeling with him, so, now we can summon full summons? If only briefly? I don't mind sticking to these "rules" of story telling, but at the end of the day, for 9 years, I had a full summon by my side doing Black Mage level damage, I found the loop hole in your story that tells me this Bahamut ability is essentially a way to bring these forces to my side, if only briefly enough to harness one ability.

But, I would take that? Would you? Summoning Ifrit, Garuda or others for an ability here and there? But we'd be speculating and wishful thinking, worst of all- we would be settling for "good enough" much like it has been so far.

If someone asked me what the end game of Final Fantasy XIV was like, I would tell them it's chasing gear, you run the same previous 5 dungeons, to get specific credits, to get an Item level, to run something else, to replace it, upgrade it and by them there will probably be a patch and you do it all over again, you can't deny this has been the way of things since 2.0 and the implementation of "Tomestones of Philosophy".

You can only re-skin a dungeon or change mechanics so many times before the trend sets in and you are repeating what you did 2 years ago. Adding new content, such as heavensward, was mildy acceptable- The music and new environments are great, but I don't remember half of them, they could go up in flames and I couldn't tell I cared about the place, I have no intimacy time with the area because it's all fetch quests to level, a few FATE's and then running around only to avoid aggro when necessary.

Once you hit 60, you're back to the same old thing. What will 4.0 be like? Level 75 cap, rush to 75 quickly so you don't feel left behind, hurry up and get those Tomestones of Gubajuba so you can get the i-lv 300 gear that will get replaced in 4.1!

I'm not sure about you guys, but this is getting old. I have played other games at this point that I have thought "This feels more like a Final Fantasy game", I have no idea what the development is catering towards, but the current direction is quite obviously not satisfying the desire for something on the scale of what has been.

I'd like to know how you feel about these points, are you really fine with the current "Phantasy Star Instance" style of gameplay, or would you like to see more cooperative game play like camping parties in the wild, or an optional mix of the two, maybe you have your own ideas? I believe what ever the case may be, this is getting stale since 2.0.

You can edit your OP to bypass the 1000 character limit. :)

Thank you! :)

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Originally Posted by Kohta

Because of the word limit on these forums I will sum it all up here, why are we accepting that earning 3000 "Tomestones of whatever" every 2 months for the last 2 years is okay, why are the classes being dumbed down in relation to the original Final Fantasy feel. Why is this acceptable at all, that we have half breed classes like Summoner, who's companion is no bigger than a cat.

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Who knows, man. Probably a bunch of new people coming in with a fresh experience of the treadmill we already went through so they're not seeing what a headache it is after 3 years. Summoner's ship sailed long ago unfortunately, but people are happy with it for whatever reason so *shrug*.

Sounds like you want this to be FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Cakekizyy

Sounds like you want this to be FFXI.

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I would like this to be Final Fantasy, regardless of what number comes after it, the phenomenal amount of information in old threads can be organised to show, as well as the front page of threads here, that you can call this anything and it would pass. They have produced games already, like Bravely Default, with the job wheel and references to Final Fantasy, Crystal life source and yet it could have been called "Final Fantasy: Such and Such" and that would have been okay.

You can't deny that this does not feel like a Final Fantasy in the same breath describe how it's uniquely different from a game that has nothing to do with Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Kohta

I would like this to be Final Fantasy, regardless of what number comes after it, the phenomenal amount of information in old threads can be organised to show, as well as the front page of threads here, that you can call this anything and it would pass. They have produced games already, like Bravely Default, with the job wheel and references to Final Fantasy, Crystal life source and yet it could have been called "Final Fantasy: Such and Such" and that would have been okay.

You can't deny that this does not feel like a Final Fantasy in the same breath describe how it's uniquely different from a game that has nothing to do with Final Fantasy.

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Feels like Final Fantasy to me.

Anyway, on to my actual response to your thread:

I was a drk main in FFXI and I absolutely loved the class, when it was to be released for FFXIV I had to go for it. I was disappointed (but not surprised) to learn Drk was going to be made in to a tank, SE has kind of made it clear (in my opinion) that plate = tank and Drk traditionally wears the heaviest armor. Also I agree with you that the nin weaponskills from XI were very unique indeed and added to the eastern feel of the game and the XIV version could use the same. Machinist isn't a bad idea, I like both the archery and gunnery option for ranged dps and while both classes feel and play very differently, GB/WM make them a little too similar in my opinion. A good part of that is wanting to be different to XI and the devs, for better or worse, seem to be sticking to their vision of how the classes should be. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, "final fantasy" to you might not be the same as "final fantasy" to me.

I can't disagree with you on summoner, I've already made a lot of posts about how much I dislike what they did with it. To me, Summoner as a class should have been focused on the pet, the pet doing the majority of the direct damage while the summoner played support by buffing the pet, debuffing and apply some DoT's to the enemy, and healing the pet. Make the pet matter more than it does now where the pet is honestly just a glorified DoT. I'm convinced at this point that SE has abandoned the pet system for anything but glamours. Hopefully if they add another pet class (Beastmaster comes to mind) it will be more focused on the pet.

I don't mind the gear treadmill, that's the bread and butter for any vertical progression MMO. But one thing I don't like is that it's only two main dungeons, two dungeons is not a roulette to me, it's more like a coin toss. The highest level roulette should (in my opinion) have at least 7-10 dungeons at the minimum. You sound burned out on the gear/dungeon grind which is perfectly cool. I'd say take a break from the game and I don't mean that in a rude way, I think some time playing other MMO's or maybe some non-rpg like a platformer or a shooter might be a good idea.

I am personally alright with the heavily instanced and dungeon focused style of gameplay. I don't mind that at all and it's actually my preferred way to play. However, I will grant the point that designing huge zones that players only ever need to go through once or twice and then never need to visit again is a waste. Once you unlock whatever the newest dungeons are you can sit in whatever town you want and queue all day. I'm not personally a fan of open world stuff as I mentioned before, but I appreciate that people are and I stand by my assertion that these huge zones are a waste if you aren't going to use them.

As far as the formula goes OP, SE has found a formula and they're sticking to it. It's a very simple formula that appeals to a wide group of people and keeps things simple. But if you really want more stuff out in the world where other players are semi-involved. I suggest you try gathering and crafting, especially at 60, going through all the different zones, traveling to the places you need, making friends with other crafters and working together to create some of those really nice items and obtain rare materials. The crafter LS I'm in does way more cooperative gameplay and does a lot of (non-combat) stuff out in the world. It might be something to look in to.

Honestly, tapping on the summoner bit, if we could summon the full size primals to our aid for extended periods of time the majority of raid bosses would get covered up by primals.

Like seriously, can you imagine Brute Justice being punched by 4 full size Titans that are clipping through each other? You would not even be able to see to click on the boss.

Sure it would feel more Final Fantasy (specifically, Final Fantasy XII) but it would be at a detriment to gameplay.

I also feel that in some ways the classes we do get should not function too closely to how they are implemented in other final fantasy games, but still keep within the theme. That way they feel a bit more unique here instead of just being carbon copied from another FF game. After all, this world is treated as its own. So similar classes could have gone an entirely different route compared to other FF worlds. The Ninja in this game being more of an assassin, instead of an evasive distraction that alters the enemy's def.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

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Remember back in the day when Summons was just Summoning them to perform their Ultimate Attack only and then they leave?

Those were the days before what people consider "Summon" now to be personal slaves as Summons.

If they ever go to Full Summon I hope they make it like the old original concept of Summon being Summoing the Summon to perform their Ulitmate attack only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUd-ExA8y74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO2y20H8mF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjDW_1cdgwM

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

If they ever go to Full Summon I hope they make it like the old original concept of Summon being Summoing the Summon to perform their Ulitmate attack only.

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If designed right and had you summon a different primal each time for variety? I'd be down for it.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I'd say take a break from the game and I don't mean that in a rude way, I think some time playing other MMO's or maybe some non-rpg like a platformer or a shooter might be a good idea.

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You're right on and have a great way of expressing your opinion. In terms of burnt out, I only resubscribed a few* weeks ago, before that, the last substantial game-play was March, in the last month I have invested 10 hours, with a current highest ilv of 185, if burned out is what it is, it happened a long time ago, at this point I am at bare minimum access. I am playing Blade and Soul, which I honestly think has more flaws than I could count- Overwatch, not really an MMO has a community you wouldn't desire to be around for very long, don't get me wrong, I love riding my motorcycle, work quite a bit and have a child. I want to love FFXIV, I continue to play it, unfortunately my wait times in the only content I am able to do as a Summoner are well over 40 minutes on average, by the time I have done a single run we are an hour invested, for 60 Esoterics or whatever I am earning at this point.

The reason I am in this position is because I have been playing other things, because the state of the game at it's base forces you to like it or get left behind until the next expansion, where you're given a free set of gear to get re-instated, why don't I just wait until 4.0? This is where a collective voice has stired, I just happened to make a thread questioning it.

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Originally Posted by Kohta

In the last month I have invested 10 hours, with a current highest ilv of 185, if burned out is what it is, it happend a long time ago, at this point I am at bare minimum access.

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I see your point, I can tell you really want to like the game. But as I stated in my other post, SE's PVE formula is very much set in stone and I don't see them changing the progression model anytime soon, if ever. The other problem is that it's really only the one progression system, you grind tomestones for the best gear and have just enough time to maybe finish one set (if you started from day 1) before a new set is out.

The weekly caps are definitely irritating but it comes down to them wanting to drag it out, if they didn't, players would grind out a full set in a week or two and then have nothing to do and therein lies the problem. There's only a gear treadmill for combat classes and the fact that this game has such a massive instanced PVE focus. Unless you absolutely adore instanced PVE (and the associated vertical progression) there is really not much else to do as a combat class.

Edit: Removing the cap would be cool for someone like myself (I have personally leveled everything to 60 except for three crafters) as I would love to gear up all of my combat clsases to 230 but the cap prevents me from doing that as by the time i do the gear is already obsolete.

As to why you should play, might I suggest doing what my brother does? He subs long enough to complete the main story quests because he really likes the HW story, then does other stuff until the next batch of main story quests comes out.

I would change two things:

1. Summoner should be a summoner in Final Fantasy term and not a Warlock from World of Warcraft. Class should be about the summons and not the caster.
2. Bard should either go back to 2.0 version and have more mobility or they should introduce a Ranger class that plays like a 2.0 Bard without the support skills. Instead Bard can stay being a BowMage, but in return gets more support abilities.

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Originally Posted by Laerune

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Would've made more sense adding ranger and making that the bow mage. Ranger would have a bigger bow and more draw time for more damage. Bard shorter bows with the mobility of 2.0. Also, bard has a poor focus with the songs. Many of the jobs have poor focus on their "job" skills.

Hi... Player since 2.1..... Having to admit that your point of view is kinda what it is, even if painful.

3.0 was funny and interesting first months though, it hyped me. But still, we would need like, such an expansion every 3 months to get us hyped still. Until now it's a rinse and repeat circle. That's why I find solace in doing PvP. Late on it's like I just do roulette, a bit of raiding, and some PvP when I can, not caring about anything else, PvE is pointless because it's all the same.

As far as the Jobs are concerned the only 2 dynamic Job classes IMO are Monk and Warrior. Everything else I have reservations about. I main BLM true but other classes especially when you bring Summoner to the forefront do not hearken to FF tradition. And thus they may hold the title but they play differently then from their old counterpart.

This is why you can make such abstract comparisons to XIV against any other game in the FF series.

As far as the game's jaded design the only meaningful thing people stick around for is the stellar story.

It's stale but continues to sell. As long as people keep paying for it, it won't change. SE's online game division actually has an upward trend in revenue through the expansion launch. I think people are staying for the regular content updates and polish in the end. It's main competition WoW hasn't had a real content patch in almost an entire year.

I give them credit for trying to branch off with Diadem/Aquapolis/Palace of the Dead.

I absolutely agree with OP's statement. As great as the mainscenario is, the game itself lacks the typical Final Fantasy feeling - at least in my opinion.
Summoner is nothing like I imagined it after thinking about how Yuna handled the summons in FFX (the second FF I ever played), which was really disappointing to me. Bard, my main job, was nice before HW hit, but got worse after it. Usually I tend to play supporters but Bard is just feeling halfassed: no real damage, no real support. I blame this on the dungeonsystem FFXIV is currently using.
In the end, I have to adapt to those things because it is just how the game is and all in all I love this game and I really hope that SE is able to enhance the Final Fantasy feeling in the near future. I also wish they would find a way to get rid of the boring tome system and give the open world more depth and meaning. Apart from Hunt mobs there is NO real danger in the open world, none at all! Even my very first MMO Ragnarok Online managed to make the world a experience and not just a rollover.

On Summoner... When folks ask FFXIV to go back to its "roots" and give the Summoner's summons the focus of the job, I really have to wonder what they're talking about. Up until Final Fantasy TEN, Summons have always been a one-shot attack, usually too resource intense to use more than once per fight. Because of this, the Summoner usually had a secondary role (which, to be honest, was more like a primary role) casting white or black magic. Of the single-player FF's ten and thirteen were the only ones to use the "persistent" summon that hangs around a while performing multiple attacks, and in those cases all or most of the party left the battlefield in the interim.

Eleven was the only game to treat Summoner like a "pet class" - and it, too, wound up being more useful for its secondary role as a healer due to how spectacularly bad the Summons were. Eventually SE buffed them to a point where the summons were actually worthwhile, but it took a long, long time to get to that point.

A Summoner with the summon doing the majority of the work would be a NEW take on Summoner - just as the so-called "Warlock Summoner" is a new take on the job. Much as in previous FFs, the Summoner is doing something not-too-summony for the majority of their effectiveness, with summons along for a little bit extra.

To be honest, I think making pet damage the focus of SMN in this game would have been an awesome idea. This would have been the perfect game for it, too. It didn't work in Eleven, because the enmity system there was so simplistic; a SMN with a sufficiently powerful pet would just have to stay out range of the enemy's aoe and they could deal damage like a dedicated DPS completely without risk... To avoid that, they put all kinds of restrictions in place; the summons' attacks were weak, they drained MP so the SMN became useless if they left a pet out for too long, and so on, leaving the SMN undesirable compared to other DPS. Eventually they fixed some of these deficiencies, but not until VERY late in the game's life. In this game, though there IS no safe distance; the bosses' scripts cause them to target players regardless of their places on the enmity list, meaning the SMN can't just sit back and let the pet do all the work. They have to dance along with everyone else, so I see no harm in the bulk of the damage coming from the pet - as long as the pet is sufficiently survivable!

What we got, though, is fine, too, though, continuing the Final Fantasy tradition of summoners whose summons contribute only a small component of what they do.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

On Summoner... When folks ask FFXIV to go back to its "roots" and give the Summoner's summons the focus of the job, I really have to wonder what they're talking about.

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It's really simple. The beasts you summoned did the bulk of your damage. Not a measly 33% nor was it a glorified DoT. And you could Summon monsters in other titles to do said damage every turn. MP resources were fine. To the point a BLM's high tier spell was comparable to high level summoning. Along with defensive summons that bolstered your defense like the Golem's Earthen Ward from FF5.

Furthermore in the older games Summons were acquired upon their defeat and not in job quests. And since this game has set the mark for Summons are bad and you shouldn't do it, it just cements the fact that true Summoners have no place in Eorzea.

Once the "Oooooh Shiny" has worn off:

[IMG]https://i.imgflip.com/164m4c.jpgvia Imgflip Meme Generator[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I can't disagree with you on summoner, I've already made a lot of posts about how much I dislike what they did with it. To me, Summoner as a class should have been focused on the pet, the pet doing the majority of the direct damage while the summoner played support by buffing the pet, debuffing and apply some DoT's to the enemy, and healing the pet. Make the pet matter more than it does now where the pet is honestly just a glorified DoT.

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I like this.....as it is now, the glorified DoT, I see many summoners who let their pet die and not bother to bring them back. If the pet was the majority of their damage output and not their ruins and DoTs, they might care more to keep that thing alive. But...then I also see them turning themselves into a pet healer and letting the pet do all the work while they neglect their DoTs.

FFXIV is not FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

FFXIV is not FFXI.

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But it has the "Final Fantasy", Summoner currently feels like a Red Mage, Bio, Miasma, Miasma 2 which is basically Gravity.

I originally said I could go on and on, because it isnt just summoner, that was just one thing.

WHM - Wheres Dia? Banish? Re-Raise - the one ability to separate a WHM drastically from any other healer.

BLM - triggering a temporary ability to do Black Magic? Is my BLM a wanna be or deep down a Scholar reading the book on how to do it?

PLD - it pains me to list this one, I love FF PLD and how deeply rooted in Norse Mythology it is, but that shield is useless more often that it actually blocks, and when it does block, its rather insignificant, I am using invisible buffs to take possibly less DMG, maybe.

DRK - Dark Knight is too deeply rooted in "kill without remorse" to make me believe they care about protecting a party. No one should have to make up stories to try to justify why the most merciless jobs in FF is a tank. By that logic, Red Mage could be a tank because they use a shield and can boost elemental resistance.

SCH - What Summoner is now, should be as SCH, DoT, elemental shifts, very lite healing ability, resurrect, burst damage every now and then.

Ninja - Its a thief. Sneak Attack, Trick Attack, Dancing Edge, Daggers, Hide, 90% of its abilities comes from the Rogue/Thief line.
The best Ninja in this game is your sets of gear, now you see it, now you don't.

Re Summoner - Ultimate or continuous.

This makes me think of another game's class (eso) where there is an ultimate ability. In their Sorc's case this can be used to summon a short stay 'big guy' on top of the regular pets.
It's attacks are automatic and it does just stay for a few seconds. You can't call it all the time, as the ultimate lvl meter (general term) has to be built up with combat.

An interesting idea, but it would add an extra gauge and button to the UI.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Re Summoner - Ultimate or continuous.

This makes me think of another game's class (eso) where there is an ultimate ability. In their Sorc's case this can be used to summon a short stay 'big guy' on top of the regular pets.
It's attacks are automatic and it does just stay for a few seconds. You can't call it all the time, as the ultimate lvl meter (general term) has to be built up with combat.

An interesting idea, but it would add an extra gauge and button to the UI.

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In the past it has been called "Overdrive". For summoner the Overdrive has been Astral Flow and Grand Summon, Paladin has been Knights of the Round and Invincible.

An overdrive for each individual player would be a great way to make things slightly better, versus a one time Limit Break that requires no one to disconnect or be there.

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Originally Posted by Kohta

In the past it has been called "Overdrive". For summoner the Overdrive has been Astral Flow and Grand Summon, Paladin has been Knights of the Round and Invincible.

An overdrive for each individual player would be a great way to make things slightly better, versus a one time Limit Break that requires no one to disconnect or be there.

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All players should of had their own LB meter instead of the thing we have now. Considering PvP framework it can be done. They just choose not to.

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Originally Posted by Kohta

You can't deny that this does not feel like a Final Fantasy in the same breath describe how it's uniquely different from a game that has nothing to do with Final Fantasy.

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I completely deny that, all FF games are different. FF12 gave us Belias and Famfrit instead of Ifrit and Leviathan, how did that feel?

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Originally Posted by Kohta

The Machinist is a neat idea, but how practical is it really with Bard already an option

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I don't particularly like how Machinist turned out but what's not practical about it? Why MNK or NIN if DRG is already an option? Why SMN if BLM? There's nothing impractical about having an alternate Ranged DPS option. the problem is with BRD and Wanderer's Minuet.

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Originally Posted by Kohta

Where is Ninja's Ustusemi along with the weapon skills that put the eastern theme at the forefront? Blade: Chi,Blade: Jin, Blade Ku?

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why does that matter? Edge and Shadow were the original FF Ninjas and they didn't have those.

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Originally Posted by Kohta

so, now we can summon full summons? If only briefly?

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no, we can't. Bahamut doesn't even take form enough to get it's own HP bar that can take damage, that's not a full summon by any stretch.

yes, the game has problems. but a lot of your gripes seems to be that it's not FFXI, and that's because it's not, it's FFXIV.

The original FF Ninja was from FF1(utilizing weak Black Magic) barring that Ninja's were present for FF3 with Throw in remakes. Edge and Shadow are not the original Ninja's of FF. All they did was bring Ninjutsu to the table.

Machinist is just a bursty Bard. It requires 3 CC skills from Bard to be functional. It's gimmick is forced procs and a Gun Wizard mode. Said mode was tacked onto Bard as well.

Ivalice featured unique summon monsters...yet you could still summon them for a big move or effect.

Bahamut is only as a fluff satellite AoE attack because that's how they designed it.

Wanna argue Lore reasons. Let's argue Lore reasons.

Not enough aether to summon a lightning sprite rip off...

Enough aether to channel Bahamut, fire an ahk morn, NPC can evolve Ifrit into Belial. BTW Bahamut-kun is a Elder Primal. Guess what Ramuh is? Not an Elder Primal.

For BLM the book of Thal teaches you to pull power(couldn't possibly mean aether) from the earth feed your casts, open a polarized frozen pocket to drop a iceberg on an enemy, open a void dimension heat amplification pocket to drop a fire nuke while endangering everyone.

Not enough aether for ramuh though, bigger primals will require more aether so you may as well give up. May as well ask for an Odin trance in the expansion while we are at it. Another Elder Primal. Too bad he hasn't been killed yet though cause it's a sword and some bum touched it.

War of the Magi caused 2 Umbral Eras.

Bahamut caused one.


Lore for ya.

I mean the one BLM who summoned the Barghest is more of a summoner then the summoner. He lost control because he was a bum. But we're the WoL I.E not a bum.

I mean if they really wanted to they could easily introduce a new summon at any time with a quest that played out like "I found a spellbook that told me how to do thing. Kill these things and get me a Finger Sandwich from the Waking Sands and I can tell you how to do thing."

I mean when you have one magic user go on about using the planet's aether is bad and another who says it's all good do whatever. Sounds like a contradiction if you ask me.

Honestly if you were able to summon full summons in the game..... just think about it. No. And I say no being a summoner for all of 2.0 up to 2.4 when I switched to tank. I still love SMN but if you were able to do a full summon it would have to be a limit break or of the sorts. Like how in FFX when you did a summon everyone stood back while the summoned primal fought your enemies until it fainted or used its ultimate ability.

I think the egi storyline makes sense enough.

As for DRK, even though it was made a tank, it had huge success and still to this day helps with tank queues in the lower level dungeons. Same with AST. That was a brilliant move by SE. Because when ninja was added in everyone saw how horrible queues were for all content both low level and high level.

Problem is people keep comparing FFXIV to FFXI and they are 2 different games. FFXIV has its own individuality and that is just something you are going to have to respect or you can just accept it and not play it.

I'd just like Summoner to do what it says it should be doing and all of it's summons being useful. As it stands...all it currently amounts to is summon Garuda because Contagion and just focus on DoT upkeep and look pretty throwing out oGCD's and Ruin spells and hoping for the best. Ifrit is an afterthought. Titan is barely if ever used. Speaking of Titan how do you even design a Tank based Pet and not give it a "Provoke" skill. I mean seriously how can something so integral to any Tank job be overlooked and just be missing in it's entirety?

Summoner came about because people wanted a Pet class...but come Heavensward what new Pet actions came about? None bar 1. A skill on Scholar that does away with your Pet for increased healing for a period of time. Which only serves to accentuate that it's not much of a Pet class and they will be moving away from it. Further cemented by the fact the only news on Summoner is Egi glamour options in the form of Carbuncle.

And that's disappointing. It really is.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

FFXIV is not FFXI.

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You're right. It's prettied up WoW.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

yes, the game has problems. but a lot of your gripes seems to be that it's not FFXI, and that's because it's not, it's FFXIV.

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You are completely missing the point. Be sure to let me know in what Final Fantasy the "Summoner" couldn't Summon because they weren't a strong enough vessel, what Black Mage was handicapped from doing Black Magic of the highest tier because they had to be locked into an aether current, its fine to be different, but not on the fundamentals.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I mean if they really wanted to they could easily introduce a new summon at any time with a quest that played out like "I found a spellbook that told me how to do thing. Kill these things and get me a Finger Sandwich from the Waking Sands and I can tell you how to do thing."

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This. Black Mage on the only job capable of casting said black magic "the master of ..." Should not be locked out of a fundamental ability that its based entirely on, there are other ways to deal with balancing than putting a extra button on the bar to be able to make other buttons work, like augmenting the damage of said ability to fit content along with class quests, instead of entirely stripping it away .

FFXIV Black Mage - I can do Blizzard/Fire 4, but hang on I need to spam it or else it's wasted.

How it should - I'm pulling a lot of hate with Bliz/Fire 4, I should take it down a notch and Bliz/Fire 2/3 because paying attention to the fight is better than watching my skill bar.

FFXIV Summoner - What can you summon? "Not too much, all the experts are telling me if I summon a primal I will die" - "So what makes you a summoner that doesn't make Scholar a Summoner?" ForeverAlone.jpg

originally i was hoping XIV was more a spiffy better graphics of XI lol

But in this day and age, a more 'casual' based gameplay changes the whole structure of jobs as a whole.
Many of the things that we wish in XIV tend to work more toward harder longer progression games. Those that take years.
'Want your chest piece? Wait in line for a year' that sort of thing.

And yes i think pretty much xiv is casual base even savage because here, we dont have bosses like in XI that took years to decipher and get to and 20+ hrs of whole alliance swappings to defeat.

On a side note, if there was one thing that i wish XIV had, were that continuous zone that XI had.
'Dungeons' werent 'instances, they were continuous zones from the fields.
The world felt much more bigger, natural, and exploration was amazing.

The OP is right tho.
As much as the arguement is this isnt FFXI
Well this is not WoW either.

I understand there might be some who enjoy this laid back content I guess but for the majority of players it does feel like its too repetative and boring.
Casuals or not its a very boring predictable formula.

I'm aware that FFXI used elements from Everquest and they admitted that but FFXI became its own unique adventure eventually. FFXI should have been the continued flagship for this and not this strange WoW route they went with to appeal to the masses.

This game is slowly reaching a pay to win envoirment aswell.
Check the Yoshi P interview with Gamerescape. They are considering selling levling potions.

Only way this will stop is if the playerbase sets it foot down and explain what we really want.
A few years ago when most of us tried to point out these flaws alot of the "casuals" where against it but now when they have catched up they see what most of the "veterans" where trying to say.

Burn your life away through two dungeons daily to get the amazing jibba jabba currency when you get all your gears you don't have much to do anyways. Endgame raids or not the gears catch up with endgame raiders by allowing players to put less effort in and obtain the same gears as raiders just not as quick. Fair much?

Instances that are revamped maps instead of making unique things?
These dungeon x hard mode isnt even hard its just dungeon x boring mode with lack of creativity.

Honestly it is not even SE or Yoshi Ps teams fault they are giving us what they think we want and we are accepting it.

The only way a change is even going to happen is if we continue to voice our opinion about current content especially the stuff OP was refering to.

I said this in a previous post before.

I rather enjoy playing with 1-2m loyal Final Fantasy players who just love the FF brand and franchise together with 1.0 players FFXI players and even new players that would actually respect the brand.
I'm not interested in playing a huge commercial MMORPG thats going to have 5-10m players with a very disloyal customer group that are mmorpg trend jumpers that are only here because this game is hot right now.
FFXI was never super big but it was unique in its way and it was rewarding, challenging, time consuming, fun and you never ran out of stuff to do.
It was not perfect but you played together with a loyal customer group who have been playing that game for 8-10 years.

FFXIV is very unpersonal compared to FFXI.
Players come and go constantly as much as you try to create a wonderful community its not going to happen because of this persuit after the "casual" player who will get everything else everyone else has in order to catch up just because they pay for a sub.

Farking hell, people here have no friggin idea on how to address long standing issues with solutions other than "take a break" if I had dollar for how many friends took a damn break and never came back.

This game is bleeding players and the best solution is to tell disgruntled vets to take a break?

CookieMonsta: Thats the dumbest arguement ever. Taking a break usually means people wont come back. Thats a reality of many players of FFXIV. You shouldnt have to level other jobs either for having something to do because the current game and playstyle makes you run out of things to do.

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Originally Posted by FizzleofHyperion

CookieMonsta: Thats the dumbest arguement ever. Taking a break usually means people wont come back. Thats a reality of many players of FFXIV. You shouldnt have to level other jobs either for having something to do because the current game and playstyle makes you run out of things to do.

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That's exactly my point, it is healthier to identify , discuss and ultimately lobby for changes to issues. Telling people to take a break whenever they express dissatisfaction is destructive.