Should we be demanding use for Tank LB?

There's one thing that really bugs me about limit breaks, and it's that I never have a reason to use the tank limit breaks.

Melee Limit Breaks are best for hitting a boss hard.
Ranged and Caster Limit Breaks are used when the melee forget to, or when large groups of adds need to die.
Healer Limit Breaks are a patch-up for the group, but I only see the LB3 version of this, so apparently it's only good with a raise attached.
Tanks... we never get to use ours.

Should this change? Should we be demanding mechanics that require us to blow the Limit Break gauge to protect from a skill that would otherwise wipe the party? I really want to see these come to use, but I also worry that it'll be to the detriment of endgame content as a whole. DPS limit breaks help get through enrage timers for lategame raids, would it be fair to force groups to conserve it for a specific mechanic? At the moment, limit breaks basically just bonus damage, but if there's a mechanic that specifically required it...

I don't know. Can I get some other opinions on whether Tank LBs should be made viable?

If I recall correctly, it was mentioned once that one of the design decisions in the game was that limit breaks would never be explicitly necessary in order to win any particular battle. Could have heard/read wrong though.

While healer limit break is used to patch situation where most people have died for some cause, often a failed mechanic which the healers have had no chance to bounce up from, I have also seen tank lb uses to avoid just such thing from happening. For example, heading into party wide big hit where possibly one healer is missing and the party is not on the best condition to face the incoming damage. That it doesn't happen more often, I'd say, is because tanks in general have not trained themselves to be aware of those situations as much, or the mindset that it should be saved for raising.

Long past are we the days of early 2.x primals where a Tank LB was a legit strategy in order to survive certain moves in things like Garuda/Titan.

Not that it -couldn't- be done without but i do remember a fair few ones back then using it without question.


Sadly only the highest "tier" of content could ever be made in future to incorperate a tank LB use, but then raid teams will just devise a way to skirt around that to use it for more DPS, and thus everyone else wont think to use it for tanks and just wait to outgear it.

It's binary.

You either need it or you don't, and damage never follows this. MOre damage output is always better. More damage reduction is not, neither is more healing. If we want interesting limit breaks, the damage oriented ones have to go, and in general all limit breaks need to change in function.

And healer limit breaks are trash until 3 because they don't heal enough and aren't instant. It boggles my mind that the pure healing LB1 and 2 aren't instant.

You used tank lb for ultimas ballad for orbs, when it was relevant. O.O

Interesting that you should mention this. In the final phase of Nidhogg Ex, there are situational uses for all three LBs. The DPS LB is ideal, but is not necessary to clear. If you're down several party members, there may be a role for a healer LB, unless you're about to get hit with Akh Morn. If you try to healer LB just before Akh Morn, Nidhogg will destroy your stack while your party members revive, and proceed to individually oneshot everyone else. As such, there's also no point in separating someone from the stack as a sacrifice unless the initial target is either a PLD or ideally a DRK (which is theoretically possible, but I suspect that he preferentially targets non-tanks, as I've never seen this happen unless we're down to two members). The solution: Tank LB. Once you survive, your healers can proceed to slowly rez the rest of the party in preparation for the next part of the dance. It's a nuisance, but you can recover from it.

Nidhogg Ex is a fantastic fight to do as a tank (especially on DRK). There are so many ways that you can help your group recover from seemingly fatal mistakes. It almost makes you want to farm it on PF.

T13 is the only fight that I can think of which mandated the use of a Tank LB when the fight was relevant (and it was one of the highlights of the fight). Tank LBs were also very helpful for Ultima HM and T11, but there were workarounds. You could also use Tank LBs to potentially recover from a few potential wipes, such as in Garuda Ex if you killed Spiny too early during phase 3.

In fact, tank lb can be much more useful than dps or healer. Tanks use it because guides tell them so. For example Ultima, in the last set of orbs, tanks used lb so the party could handle this mechanic much easier but we did it because a static used it and it proved useful... Lets just say that there is an invisible rule about lbs.
Boss hp < 15-20% --> Melee Lb (Finisher)
Most people dead --> Healer Lb
Saving party from death -> Tank Lb

As you can understand, tank lb can be used in many many occasions in the game just it requires from tanks to know the fight perfectly and being able to improvise and use it. SE will never tune a fight for tanks to use their lb or you wipe 100%.

Yes, Nidhogg EX if >1 people died to bombs/eyes (esp. if one of them is a healer) and you have incoming Akh Morns.

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Originally Posted by MahoSenshi

Yes, Nidhogg EX if >1 people died to bombs/eyes (esp. if one of them is a healer) and you have incoming Akh Morns.

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No need for that if all remaining people stack up, have somewhat relevant gear and the healer knows what he's doing, 6 people are fine for the stack... if more died than 2 then it turns into a "if" scenario, yea. But then again, if your team does it properly, it is not needed. There simply are no fights at this point of the content that need a tank LB, ever. Only if your team / raid chooses to do so (which shouldn't be the case).
Back in the past tank LB's were common in some Primals or t13 progress. Nowadays the only real consideration of a tank LB is A8S for the second intermission to cheese it, other than that I don't think you need it anywhere, not even if a healer is dead in just any scenario.

That's a lot of IFs there. I've actually used tank LB3 in the last phase with a training party. Because two people was dead, second healer panicked and group HP bars was plummeting. It helped... no, not kill. To drag a fight till enrage. People actually saw and got used to the last phase mechanic and we got our kill one or two wipes later.

PLD's testudo pvp ability is more powerful than the tank LB 1 and 2 and only warrants a 3 min CD that can be shortened, just throwin this out there...

Tank and healer LB really should be better in my opinion. Tank LB should make the party invincible for 5 seconds at LB 1, 10 seconds at LB 2 and 15 seconds at LB 3. It may still rarely get used but there would be more tactical advantages to it, like all tanks being able to go invincible for a tank buster if a healer is down at the time, 15 seconds of free dps time for the healers cause no one will be taking damage, or avoid severe raid wide damage like it's currently used for but better.

Healer LB, like OP said, is only useful with a raise attached, so healer LB 1 should raise the entire party but with double weakness, LB2 should raise the entire party with regular weakness, LB3 should raise the party with no weakness. A lot of new healers think the LB DOES have a raise on it at all levels then when they use it and realise it doesn't they go "damn, well that was a waste...". Which suggests to me that this is how it should work.

Tank LB is a common practice to use in Nidhogg EX and A8S as of now. Made it easier to progress and clear.

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

Tank LB is a common practice to use in Nidhogg EX and A8S as of now. Made it easier to progress and clear.

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A8S, i am not there yet but everything I read suggest use it as your learning, and if people still try to do the mechanics and learn how to do it eventually stop and use a DPS LB3, but I feel that most groups simply never make this change unless DPS is an issue and they cant kill it before enrage w/o making the change.

NidEx, I have not seen it used, but I can see why it would be good to have used (0.1%) wipe when we had 2x tank, 1x healer 2x dps alive at last stack and DPS just used the lb3 and I was the only to make it out alive and died just before i could finish it, with a tank lb3 we would have lived and most likely killed)

Personally, I do think that it would be nice if Tank LB's were changed in some way. I just don't see how they could.

Right now, they only have niche uses. Progression raids and the most recent EX content are the only fights in which Tanks have ever gotten to use their LB's, and that use goes right out the window the moment people get comfortable with the fight or are even remotely over-geared for it. In standard content they're never used unless by accident. That's pretty limited, so I get why tanks might feel like it's not enough. The problem, though, is: how should it be changed, without throwing a wrench into something else? Dps LB will almost always be the favourable option, and cranking boss dmg outputs is a tricky thing to do without making it too overpowered on squishier characters like casters ... Maybe it would be better if Tanks had a separate LB gauge from the rest of the team, allowing the use for both? The issue with that, however, is that it could make fights too easy by basically having access to 2 LBs. I just don't see SE doing something like that. I don't think there really is a solution to this problem.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

Tanks... we never get to use ours.

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If we are HAVING to use our limit break, then something as gone terribly wrong. More dps/healer lb3, aoe limit break will always be more efficient.

I think Tank LBs should be a stoneskin effect and have it last for 5min or until it's eaten away.

For example, if a ~i210 Braver would deal ~18,000 damage, an i210 Shield Wall should erect a special unique Stoneskin for all party members equal to 18,000/6 that lasts for 5min and stacks with Stoneskin/Adlo etc. If an i210 lv3 melee LB does 81,000 damage, a lv3 tank should give a 81,000/6=13,5000 stoneskin to party members in range. This 50% reduced damage for 10 seconds crap is kinda hard to use. To sweeten the deal, have it grant a decent Regen/MP Refresh/TP Restore effect for 12 seconds that restores a large chunk of player's HP/MP/TP during that time depending on ilvl and LB lvl. These may seem 'overpowered', but given the fact that Lv3 LBs can take off 5-10% of a boss's HP or that a Healer LB can save a group from a Wipe, tank LB could be used to PREVENT a wipe if it's made the ultimate 'mitigation' LB. It would be perfect for those times where "Boss is at 25%, LB3 is up, but too early to use Melee LB, and 2 ppl are weakened but its not dire enough yet to use a healer LB", in this situation, everyone would be given a 13-15k Stoneskin and a potent regen/mp refresh.

Im a tank main and honestly i think our lb is fine the way its and can be op in some situations like a8s 2nd intermission or nidhogg ex when boss has like 3% hp and casts arc mourne and u have lb1 and only 4 people alive it saves the day cant ask for more or maybe make the tank casting lb3 gets iframe for 3 seconds since its lb3 like healer lb gets to res everyone we get iframe during casting and 1 second while moving since our lb isnt channeling like dps or healer it cant be abused even if it was they can just remove it AND make it impossible to iframe 1 shot mechanics so it cant be abused that cant be holmgang/ld/hg ur trying to save ur group but cant move is what makes it bad sometimes and no dont remove casting animation cuz it looks good

I've seen tank lb almost as much as melee lb in nidhogg, but a lot of times you have to call it out because tanks don't realize they can save the raid. Just like, become aware of your tank LB power, and you will win. or something

I still firmly believe each role should have their own shared LB bars. Or separate them on each player like it should have been.

I think it would be cool if we had a reason to use it more often, but to be honest, I really don't see it as that big of a deal. As someone who has ONLY played PLD at the end game, I can say that if I want to use LB, I'll level the last 8 levels of my monk so I can l33th4xpwn things with LB3.