Wondering what I should be after that will help healing the most. MND = more healing potency and better heals, but +MP (Or Pie as well I suppose) will help me have more cures total. Also I was wondering if a larger MP pool would help me to regen faster?
This is in regards to materia mostly but it would be nice to hear some people's take on healer stats as a whole too.
MND vs MP For endgame Healing Con
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11-01-2011, 04:36 PMFeliciaValeMND vs MP For endgame Healing Con
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11-02-2011, 01:34 AMEstellios
Generally I haven't seen too much of a benefit to putting MP materia on gear unless you go for multiples on a single piece of gear, and MP recovers fairly quickly anyway. For my healing set I've been focusing on putting HP because the best healer is a living healer, so it helps out groups on the whole =P On that note, try to get as much Enmity down as you can, it's probably the most important stat to worry about as a healer. VIT is an alternative to HP because it also boosts defense and enhancing magic.
If you do wish to have more MP, I would recommend going the PIE route because it does multiple duties of helping your enfeebling magic and boosting your magic evasion.
MND for healing potency is there if you feel confident enough in your other stats, and isn't a bad choice because a little more bang for your MP buck does add up. It does feel noticeable when you add to MND.
Err... in summary, above all else get Enmity down. After that it's mostly up to how you want to play, but I do recommend investing some HP for the more difficult fights like Ifrit and any future fights since you will most likely be taking some kind of damage. -
11-02-2011, 02:54 AMkro
I'm gonna have to disagree with Estellios.
I put MP into every slot possible. Adding large amounts of MND or healing potency gear doesn't seem to have a significant effect on how much HP gets healed - at least not nearly as noticeable as healing someone with or without Prime Conditioning.
Higher max MP definitely increases the amount of MP gained from Tranquility. I believe it also increases the amount of MP you regen by standing still. I also noticed that MP food such as Pumpkin Cookies gave me higher bonus MP when I upgraded my gear with more MP materia (+50 mp -> +52 MP). So MP food is probably percentage-based.
With Full Party and food I have about 1560 MP. Another mage in my LS has double-slotted MP materia on all gear and gets around 1680 MP. Oftentimes, we'll get to Hellfire on Ifrit with 80-90% MP remaining with Tranquility still up. That's like 300-400 more effective MP during phase 5 than a mage that does not slot MP.
I also feel that -Enmity is not worth it. In long fights, Accomplice makes hate management trivial. In shorter fights such as beastman strongholds, I find that taking hate is largely dependent on what actions you take. Use Stoneskin and single-target heals on MRDs spamming Storm's Path and you shouldn't pull hate. Use Curaga early on and you will always pull hate. If necessary, Curaga and activate Sentinel along with a few shield skills since mobs die fast anyways.
In any case, gear to consider:
Wand: Wand of Gales
Staff: Jade Crook (M.Acc) / Ifrit's Cane (M.Pot)
Shield: Eagle-Crested Round Shield or Square Ash Shield (M.Acc)
Head: Felt Hat Green (M.Acc) / Electrum Circlet Rubellite (MP+Fire Resist) / Mask of the Mortal Hex (M.Pot)
Body: Felt Robe Red (MND) / Felt Robe Green (M.Pot)
Hands: Boarskin Ringband of Gales / Leather Mitts (MP)
Legs: Felt Gaskins (Brown)
Waist: Raptorskin Satchel Belt
Feet: Peisteskin Crakows Red
Accessories: Blue/Red Coral Wristbands / Black Pearl Rings
Materia to consider:
Wand: MP or Healing Potency
Staff: M.Crit
Shield: HP+MP (Lifethirst)
Head: MP or Healing Potency or M.Acc
Body: MP
Hands: M.Crit
Legs: MP
Waist: MP
Feet: HP or M.Eva or M.Potency
MND and enmity don't do enough to justify the slot. Healing Potency still needs to be proven. Magic accuracy can be useful (Slow and Blind on Ifrit will save a lot of MP), but how much of an effect this has on land rate remains to be seen.
MP is the most universal and a safe bet (probably the cheapest too). Feet have bad choices for mages so get whatever there. -
11-02-2011, 05:09 AMEstellios
I think it mostly depends on what you have leveled and the people you play with. Since you have all your battle classes at 50 and especially sentinel you don't have to worry about needing HP for Hellfire. If your group is in the same boat you have a lot more options with what you can do. That said I haven't had a dire need for MP in anything yet... MP recovery actually seems easier once Ifrit gets serious because his dashing around gives you a ton of time to recover. I may just be getting lucky with how often he does it, though. The situation might change with future content, too!
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11-02-2011, 05:29 AMNarikoStar
Many times have I heard this debate, what you choose I think should be up to yours and your groups play style. You might stack attributes for one reason or another while a different CNJ in a different group may stack it for a totally different reason. I'll give you some of my personal insights, but that doesn't mean it's what you should choose or go off of, please try for yourself then make your discussion ;)
Personally, at the games state at this moment (1.19) I would stack Healing potency over MP, by healing potency I mean Healing Potency and not MND. I've linked this in another thread but I'll link it again here.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...ey-work./page2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeko (via BlueGatr)
We do Ifrit every night, winning every fight. We take in two cnjs, one being myself (currently have MND stacked due to the lack of Healing Hand materia on our server) while the other CNJ has MP stacked. She has roughly 1,589MP with full party, while I myself sit at 1,257ish. At the current time we do not have MP issues. I regen just fine, as she does as well. Most fights I never have to use tranquility and neither does she.
I parse each fight, curing wise I will admit it bounces around a lot due to who had more eruptions to run from coming down to it at the most part. But you'll see a MND+ CNJ with a higher single cure average than one with MP.
When it comes down to both the CNJs sitting at 75%+ MP and never really digging into their pool I see no reason why any CNJ would want to stack MP.
I would agree when we were learning the fight, MP was rough at times. Thus I do have an extra set of MP gear simply for when new content comes out and new strategies have to be learned. But this is why I would like to emphasis:
-Where is your group at in endgame currently?
-Are you having MP issues a lot of the times?
-Is it because your not regaining MP? Or are DPS/Tank being a sponge?
I think once you can ask yourself a few questions about you and your groups playstyle it will be much more clear what you personally as a CNJ should stack to help your group progress.
I always look at MP stacking as useless for the simple fact of, you can learn to conserve better, you can learn to cure and when not to cure, MP stacking even with the MP regen+ rate seems to me personally something to compensate for bad playing at the time which someone can learn to avoid and get better at.
Thus, I would personally rather go for +Healing potency/MND/-enm/+MgCrit/Pie then MP where it seems to be the only thing left to socket.
Now, this is strictly for healing. I find myself now that our group has the end game content down now for this patch to move into other roles, such as debuffing/curing etc. This would require a whole different set up where I would much rather stack MND simply for the Mg Acc.
I hope this helps you decide which route you personally would like to take! Thanks much, Enjoy~ -
11-02-2011, 05:31 AMNarikoStar
Doh! Estellious lol, posted as I was writing, pretty much sums up a lot what I said in regards to current content and depends on your group/abilities, Thanks! +1vote
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11-02-2011, 05:35 AMOrophin
I'm no healer but I'll have to disagree with the -enmity materia. Any tank worth their salt (the right abilities help too) should not be having hate issues. This is based on the assumption that you're in a single target environment (Ifrit) so results will vary doing beastmen strongholds or other content with multiple monsters at once.
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11-02-2011, 05:49 AMNarikoStarI too, havn't found myself with any problems as far as -enm yet but I would like to say I also do not have crazy materia stacked at the moment, So not sure if you would pull more with more MND/Cure Pot, But also, -enm goes to waist, and there really isn't anything better to put on it in my opinion. ><Quote:
Originally Posted by Orophin
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11-02-2011, 08:24 AMAiko
Totally agree with NarikoStar...
+MP Materia just doesn't offer enough bang for your buck IMO. Many players are not going to take the time/risk to meld multiple materia in each slot, and the most +MP you can get without stacking is +193...which is not even enough for two extra Cure IIIs...
And unless you are dropping below 193 consistently, the extra +MP is pretty much sitting there unused (minor increase in regen and Tranquility aside).
MND, on the other hand, increases both Healing Magic Potency and Magic Accuracy, so you are kind of killing two birds with one stone there...
Between passive healing, Tranquility, food, Siphon MP, proper MP Management, etc., +MP Materia seems a little unnecessary... -
11-02-2011, 10:41 PMRoyal
I agree healing potency is probably the most useful but it only goes in head and weapon I think. Isn't that the same as MND too? So for the other 5 slots aren't u stuck with MP anyways?
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11-02-2011, 11:57 PMkroA person with higher max MP can also know how to manage MP. But things can go wrong very fast and being able to deal with it and salvage a run rather than chalking it up as a loss is something I consider pretty important.Quote:
Originally Posted by NarikoStar
I've always looked at MP as a buffer. The larger your buffer, the more room your entire team has for error. There are situations where people will not dodge eruption, where Ifrit will never jump and give you time to regen MP, or where people will simply D/C. That extra MP often meant the difference in being able to raise someone while healing or just sitting there unable to do anything. The extra MND or healing potency has to give a significant enough boost to my role for me to want it over extra MP.
That aside, I saw the tests Kaeko posted yesterday and healing potency does seem worthwhile to slot. If that rough draft of the cure formula is correct, healing potency has a huge advantage over MND and provides enough of a boost to make it more efficient than MP in a MP:HP healed ratio.
MND and MP are dirt cheap though. Personally, I sold all the healer's hand materia I ever got. -
11-03-2011, 05:31 AMRoyal
@kro, do you have a item that reliably gave you healer's hand materia. I can't afford my server prices (1.9m+ last time I looked). Thanks for any advice.
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11-03-2011, 06:49 AMNarikoStar
People will always have different opinions, I've voiced mine and Kro yours as well, I don't mean to change anyones mindset just giving my experience/personal play style. Although my opinion personally still stand about why I don't stack MP. Again I would like to point to my original post:
Our group doesn't dig into our MP pool currently, If we die- its because our melee were lolly gagging around and el oh el "didn't get a spike down before HF" which although was quite comical to see everyone take a 4k HF it was also was quite a 'wtf' moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nariko Star
But if you find yourself having trouble with MP at the time, and you need to stack MP for your group to progress go ahead! Do it. If you find that everyone in your group is fulfilling their roles in the best they can (running out of every eruptions, using Second Wind II, having SS not go down to Seer to avoid Vulcan), maybe your MP pool too, will go practically untouched or you might find MND/Cure Pot a better choice.
I only state this because our group (for the most part) Has every job at 50, and plays with multi-classed abilities so that we can successfully win with ease. If this isn't how a particular group is doing it it's not wrong, but you /may/ need MP to help that group move along.
Find what you need personally to play at your best with the current group you have. I think thats really the only thing that should matter.
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Oh, and to Royal, I've seen Electrum Rings and Tarred Voyager Belts give Healing Hand Potency (members converting them around town), I've tried my personally had at a dozen of each and not had luck. I believe it to be a low % from those pieces of gear, or perhaps I've just gotten quite unlucky.
Happy CNJing all :D -
11-03-2011, 07:14 AMNarikoStarPersonally my goal I'm working towards completing in materia slotting: (Working towards max IV or double slotting x2 III's)Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal
This would be strictly for healing, but the body/offhand/legs would be the only thing adding MP via materia with PIE so ;s not much. Granted everyone plays different, Looking into a Heal/Enfeeb build as well, testing out with more MND. But, generally do what fits your play style~
http://www.mooglebox.com/materia/index.php
(so you don't spend hours looking through the market wards like I did ;( this was made after the fact though)
Weapon- CurePot or MND (depends on changes to CNJ Ifrit weapon)
Off hand- If not 2handed MP/HP
Head- MND or CurePot
Body- PIE or VIT
Waist- -ENM
Hands- Mg Crit Pot
Legs- PIE/MND
Feet- MgAtt or MgEva (lol) feet suck -
11-03-2011, 09:53 AMRicepudding
Hehe....I had all these things in my head I was gonna say, but reading through the thread, it looks like a lot of people have already said it all >.> So I guess I'll just basically reiterate some key points I found important through the learning process of the Ifrit fight specifically.
Prime Conditioning (Pugilist Trait, GET IT!)
I cannot stress this enough to all healers out there. GET THIS SKILL NOW ZOMFGBBQ. In its current state, it doesn't do quite what it says. I found this out after a while, but our tank had this skill on himself every attempt, but I hadn't seemed to be healing him for more. However, I decided to get Pug up and equip it on myself, and discovered that it actually increases YOUR healing on EVERYONE (including yourself) by +10% when you have it equipped, rather than increasing heals on yourself. I'm sure this will be patched at some point, but until then I think it's a big deal for every healer to grab this trait if they can.
+MP
Initially I started out our first attempts stacking +mp like a beast. I pretty much see it the same way as Kro mention, which is that more MP gives you a bigger buffer for error. Did a bunch of your DDs die to an eruption? More mana lets you get em revived and/or healed up if they survive. Also, as far as I'm aware, the amount of regen you get from standing still seems to be a % of your max MP. So, higher MP allows you to regen a lot faster while standing still if you get into a "Oh shit I need more mp FAST" situation. Again, I feel that as you start learning the fights better as a group, you can trade off some +mp for other things. However when just learning a fight, stacking this could just save your group in a tough spot.
Note: Also remember that the full party buff adds +10% to your total mp pool, which makes +mp even more effective in large groups!
+Healing Potency
After some lengthy discussions in a thread I'd started recently, we've found that the amount of healing this adds to your Cure III is about a 1:1 ratio. Even still, if you can grab 2 Healer Hand IV's and throw em in your hat and wand, that's still a decent bonus of ~30 to your Cure III's (or more if you have Prime Conditioning).
+Mind
Right now, mind converts into +Healing at a 5:1 ratio. As I find myself learning the Ifrit fight better, I started switching out things like my +mp wrists and Piety rings for a set of 4 +5 Mind rings. This is mostly little changes, as that would only give me an additional +4 Healing magic. However, you could also get the +10 and +5 Mind traits from DoW jobs, which adds another +3 Healing magic. Couple that in with +Mind from other equipment, and you start getting decent increases to your Healing Magic. Again, this and Healing Potency is where I'm currently putting my focus on, as I feel like I can always keep my group up during Ifrit fights with less mp. Some people may feel like more mp is a better bet for them, and I think that's also a viable choice.
Sigh.....and alas, I find myself with more walls of text. Well, hope it helps at least >.> -
11-03-2011, 12:35 PMkroI've seen some of the R40 elemental wands, various R40 belts, and electrum rings turn into healer's hand materia. Very very rare though. Usually end up getting tier2 mnd or dex or some other worthless thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal
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11-04-2011, 03:27 AMEstellios
For whatever reason Tarred Voyagers belts are what i get my best/rarest materia from. T4 HP, T4 Enmity up, T4 Enmity Down, and probably more that I've forgotten. They're dirt cheap here on Istory, dunno if someone just had materials for a million of them but I always see 30-40 for sale in the wards.
My setup for materia has been:
Main: MP and MND (no Healer's hand materia yet, got lucky on a 2nd materia)
Shield: 2x Lifethirst
Head: MP (Might change to healer's hand if i get some)
Body: HP
Hands: HP
Legs: INT and MND (I should probably stick a manathirst or lifethirst on a 2nd set of pants for healing)
Feet: HP
Waist: -Enmity
I have been thinking about putting VIT on my body piece for the small HP, defense, and Enhancing magic increase, since I've gotten to the point where I can survive Hellfire reliably if I'm at full HP. -
11-04-2011, 09:09 PMRoyal
Unless I've missed it in the last 3 million heals, heals do not crit do they?
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11-04-2011, 11:36 PMButtonsHeals do crit:Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal
http://www.abload.de/img/cures9iuj2.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/gearffuet.jpg
Posted it over here today in the stat thread on BG:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/107...ey-work./page4 -
11-05-2011, 12:40 AMRoyal
Thank you for that. I can't believe I never looked at my log :P.
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11-05-2011, 07:16 AMEstellios
You never noticed you randomly will heal for around 2x more than normal? =P
The animation also gets a quick little burst affect added, i think it applies to all magic crits. -
11-07-2011, 09:16 AMLakefingers
I would go with MP/ Healing mg pot/ -emn for regular healing and Mag acc for when you are not bringing a THM.