I really enjoy FFXIV, I am looking forward to 2.0 and everything before there. I love Akihiko Matsui's encounter designs and look forward to what he can come up with.
I dislike the direction that endgame loot has taken in this game.
My largest gripe is treasure chests, by tying everything to this they have tossed aside so much the old development team gave them and now with Ifrit they have taken it to an entirely new level of questionable design.
Incapacitation on Ifrit:
- Incapacitations don't seem to work to give players a better chance at loot.
- They are useless during this fight, as they also don't reduce damage in any useful way, or slow the mob or really do anything.
- They are broken during Ifrit. Right and Left horns from the front? What? That's dumb.
If they fixed the positioning to be correct like all other mobs, upped the damage threshold, and made incapacitation useful guess what?But hey those classes don't need any help competing for slots in Ifrit parties so what would be the point of using an existing mechanic to encourage better balancing...It doesn't end with incapacitation though, the entire endgame DoW/DoM itemization (or loot) is worse than it was under Tanaka.
- Lancers stacking wouldn't be in so much demand because they can only break right horns with Spinstroke (poor damage)
- Archers would be in demand possibly for Bloodletter (right horn)
- Pugilists would definitely be in demand for Victimize II (right horn)
[SIZE="5"]Bring Back Tanaka's Loot System.[/SIZE]
Incapacitation affected craftable material drops from Notorious Monsters.
The benefits of the original endgame itemization system.
- Players can affect their loot chances by giving themselves extra goals during battle.
- All classes are involved.
- Multiple DoW DD for breaking parts (not just flavor of the month DPS)
- DoL to gather extra materials needed for the recipe
- DoH to craft and possibly even HQ the finished product
- All players have access to the loot and can get it through the path of their choice.
- Casuals and soloists can purchase the weapons with gil made from any activity they choose, they don't have to group with others at all if they don't want to.
- Primarily crafters and DoL can obtain the weapons.
- Tradeable drops create more demand for current content without resorting to broken loot mechanics like Ifrit's chest to arbitrarily force scarcity.
- Linkshells can more quickly gear there primary classes first, then their alt classes, and then if they so choose sell drops.
- "Oh no selling endgame drops!! RMT, monopolies, unfair!!! unfair!!!"
- People already sell spots in Ifrit groups, just like they did with Darkhold.
- RMT have a harder time, and are more vulnerable engaging in endgame for RMT than other activities.
- It requires high level characters which are more costly to lose to a ban.
- Farming, DoH, and DoL are much easier to bot/RMT
- This content is instanced you can't monopolize it.
The entirety of Tanaka's vision for FFXIV was not bad. This is one area where the new team has dropped the ball, and it is almost universally recognized. Fix it with your own solution, or you know what just use this system because it was well designed and already implemented when you got here.
Fix Endgame Loot
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11-01-2011, 12:17 PMMuruganFix Endgame Loot
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11-01-2011, 12:22 PMJim
I agree with everything that you said you have a lot of valid points. I did like Tanaka's vision for NMs and loved how everyone is involved.
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11-01-2011, 12:27 PMAnswa
Breaking Ifrit's horns greatly reduces his damage output. It's really useful if achieved in the first 25% of the fight. I haven't parsed or anything, but I can definitely tell you that with no horns broken, I would take ~100-150 damage on top of stoneskin from Vulcan Burst, and with both horn broken, it wouldn't even eat through SS.
Just from eye estimates, I'd say his damage output was reduced by 30% (1.7k down to 1.2k on some attacks). This is not useless unless you just go in to speed-battle him.
I really do like procing !!s in Abyssea for drops, so I wouldn't be too against them reincorporating this, but honestly endgame loot probabilities are supposed to suck. -
11-01-2011, 12:29 PMMuruganKey word "I haven't parsed it", well I have and it doesn't seem to do anything halfway useful that actually impacts the fight one way or the other. (if people are doing what they are supposed to)Quote:
Originally Posted by Answa
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11-01-2011, 12:36 PMXaimera
can somebody show a parsed battle please? lol i want to see with my own two eyes if the damage is actually reduced. My LS broke Ifrit's horns a few times and never did i ever see any difference at all lol. also yes i wish the loot system were different for this just cuz ya NM gear shld be rare, but nobody should be randomly given an item they already have forcibly by the system and watch it go to the floor while others need it.
What was so bad about ffxi's loot system??? Really, i mean i had to fight Fenrir a lot just to get some items, but atleast it wasn't randomly tossed into somebody's inventory and then, "OOPS ITS TRASHED CUZ I ALRDY HAD IT DERP" lol seriously SE. There is so many things wrong right now with the Ifrit battle, I like fighting it dont get me wrong and ive won now 21 times, but still some issues just need to get tweaked a little. :/ -
11-01-2011, 12:47 PMFieros
With Ifrit dropping the best weapons in the game, SE dropped a big dump on the crafters. Instead end game loot should be in the form of crafting components as you mentioned.
In one of the recent interviews Yoshida mentioned the loot system wouldn't be fixed until after 1.21 but they knew it was a problem. -
11-01-2011, 02:31 PMAnon
incapping lowers or eliminates his regen not lowers his damage i believe.
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11-01-2011, 02:44 PMIsaaruThis is where you are wrong. If you make a Barbarian's Bardiche +3 with a +20 STR materia you should be on par with an Ifrit's Battleaxe. Also +1 and +2 will be removed 1.20 iirc? Also note on crafting Ifrit weapons with the drop, yeah idc about RMT selling it, that's not the problem. The problem is though some noob who just bought 60 million gil comes along and is like hey guys like my Ifrit weapon!?!?!? The fact that you have an Ifrit weapon is because you beat it, if it is craftable (and able to be sold) then it wouldn't really mean anything having one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieros
Summary: If you want to purchase/craft an awesome weapon go with a +3 of any given class's weapon. If you want to fight for one and be like "HEY GUYS LOOK AT MY SWEET DROP!" Then kill Ifrit. -
11-01-2011, 03:13 PMMuruganI don't see the problem considering that the trade off is that the actual endgame linkshells and groups who do kill him are the ones who are capable of selling the drops. This is how it worked in FFXI, and it worked fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaaru
Also I said in my post people are already charging for spots in a group to get Ifrit weapon. So this hasn't solved your problem. Isn't your point moot then? -
11-01-2011, 05:06 PMDantesAmore
@ OP you do realize that A. the horn break stops ifrits HP regen... and B. his horns are located in FRONT of him ... DUH you break them from in front then '>.>
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11-01-2011, 05:23 PMChardrizard
I agree with everything except making ifrit wep mats trade-able, leave weapon mats for world NM, instanced NM like ifrit can drop U/U horn to trade for weapon ala faction NM to prevent doubles.
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11-01-2011, 06:33 PMMuruganWhy should world NM drop tradeable items, and instanced content not? If anything world NM's should be the ones that drop unique items to discourage farming, and encourage everyone to experience the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
People already sell spots to Ifrit/Darkhold, having them drop unique items does not solve the problem of allowing people to "buy their endgame gear". -
11-01-2011, 06:49 PMDalmore
FFXI loot system {Can I have it?} nough said
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11-01-2011, 11:00 PMAratharnI think they are doing just fine with the addition of materia in the same patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieros
Also, only PUG MRD LNC ARC best weapons come from Ifrit. -
11-01-2011, 11:04 PMJinkoYou then list the classes, but no DoM, surprise surpsie !Quote:
All classes are involved.
I don't want to see anymore !!! craftable gear, god damn it SE give us decent U/U gear, I want to have a purpose to do dungeons and walk away with shinny new loots.
Token system or need/greed , preferably the first.
No thanks, why must everything in this game come back to FF11, we already have a FF11 style AH and party system comming in 1.20 (/sigh) because the dev team aren't capable of coming up with something better.Quote:
FFXI loot system {Can I have it?} nough said
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11-02-2011, 12:20 AMAdvancedWindFlashfreeze II incaps. Also, almost all battle content already "requires" at the very least one DoM to heal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
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11-02-2011, 12:32 AMKeftenk
Lets not forget that itemization should be looked at as well.
Why are all the Sorcerer and Sipahi sets rare/ex, but every Sentinel piece EXCEPT the trousers aren't? -
11-02-2011, 12:37 AMJinkoHealing .. oh yea I forgot that ! -.-Quote:
Originally Posted by AdvancedWind
Agreed this is very strange it not just rare either, Sentinels can be melded which makes it even more unfair.Quote:
Why are all the Sorcerer and Sipahi sets rare/ex, but every Sentinel piece EXCEPT the trousers aren't?
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11-02-2011, 12:43 AMDelsusThats called Mercinery groups, they are apart of every MMO, and it stops people who maybe dont have a linkshell that can do the content to get the gear, also U/U merc'd gear usually costs alot because of how many people you probably dont know are going out of thier way to help you, I remember in FFXI there was alot of gear merc'd that cost over 50mil because of the reasons like rarity, the amount of people needed to kill the NMs etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
I think instanced NMs should drop gear, but that needs to be balanced with crafting gear being a viable option ie not gimp, but not as good as the NM gear, this allows the crafters and gatherers to make money while people work on getting the ultimate gear from endgame, and while content is rolled out and new recipies it can carry on, that way everyone gets what they want. Its what FFXI did and it worked, FFXIV should learn from that, rather than forcing people to level every craft, know people with every craft leveled for gear or have over 200mil for a full gear set in this broken economy. -
11-02-2011, 02:01 AMEcchiManUnless the buyer has shitty luck like me and goes 0/50 on weapon drops lol. Imagine the seller's going through 51 wins to earn 10mill or whatever they charge per drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murugan
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11-02-2011, 02:05 AMEcchiManI can attest that broken horns greatly reduces his hp regen, didn't notice any damage difference though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anon