Why people don't want to PVP in this game...

Just for you to know i came back to this game since a week and half, i thought "wow se is trying to do some real efforts in PVP with feast" and decided to go PVP.

Can't go into 8v8 in feast because no proc at all, not enough ppl to do smth and i really wanted to pvp then i decided to go into ranked, yes i took a risk for others but at the same time i wanted to enjoy pvp and i m used to pvp in many games.

Tonight for the first time someone rage a bit and say "come when feast is new" well sorry i was not playing at this time and will you say the same for people who just begun the game.

Should i stop playing in ranked? And wait for next patch to enjoy pvp (i really prefer small scale pvp btw). I came back to this game essentially to try PVP because i thought it could be fun.

I think the dev team did a great job with pvp recently. The Lv60 stuff (Seal Rock, Feast) are a lot better than the older Lv50 stuff (Borderland, Fold).

So the main problem is the community (NA/EU, not JP). Both their attitude/rudeness and lack of participation. The 8v8 doesn't have any players like you saw.

Keep practicing through 4v4 if you like it and ignore the haters. They can try again in season 2 if they lost too many matches this time. The matchmaking at least attempts to balance things, so if you are new then the opposite team is likely to have a new person too.

The toxicity is never really gonna end. You can wait and try next season but it will still be there and queues may be much worse than now since alot of ppl will have gotten fed up with the mode in season 1 and chosen to forego future season iterations. I'm assuming you are most likely getting the majority of the venom directed at you as an unranked player by silver tiers since honestly speaking theres not much difference between bronze and unranked players. Hopefully SE considers limiting unranked players to only get matched up with other unranked players and bronze only.

Anyway if PVP is really the only thing you are interested in its debatable whether its worth staying. Dont get me wrong I love pvp on here but its extremely niche in this game so you might want to consider other options if the rest of the game doesn't interest you as much. Especially if you prefer small scale pvp as the next frontline will be killing off feast (at least till season 2 assuming alot of ppl come back for season 2).

If you love it enough to stay you should just pvp now, like i said the toxicity will still be there next season you cant run from that so may as well endure it and get acclimated with dynamics and mechanics of feast for future seasons. Cant have thin skin with feast because the venom only gets worse when u reach gold lol.

Well you can always do frontlines It does take sometime for ques to pop but you could always try and learn there you can also go to wolves den and try to do your rotation on dummy with pvp skills once ur set u can try to do 4v4 you can come play with us as maelstrom where half the time we dont have healers lel.

You can always used FFXIV for other aspects of gameplay and PVP in a game made for PVP :). I go to HoTS when I want to PVP, Overwatch is pretty popular too.

I will try the new Frontlines though, Frontlines has always been pretty fun. The arena based PVP in FFXIV isn't that good though :(.

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Originally Posted by Altesse

Should i stop playing in ranked? And wait for next patch to enjoy pvp (i really prefer small scale pvp btw). I came back to this game essentially to try PVP because i thought it could be fun.

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In short, no. You should never let the bad attitudes of a few self-entitled players dictate what you should do with a game.

Ranked PvP is there for everyone to play, so feel free to hop in and play it. Honestly, now is probably the best time to start. Firstly, if you want to improve then you'll have to play 4v4. 8v8 and Frontlines (especially Frontlines) aren't going to do much to prepare you for smaller game modes like 4v4. So, your best practice will be in ranked games. Secondly, the season is almost over. If players haven't gotten to the rank they want to be at by this point, they probably aren't going to. So, don't let their pissy attitudes taint your experience. Spend the time learning. If you enjoy it, then keep playing and improve. If not, then oh well. So long to the assholes you got shafted with in that match.

Because the fights aren't scripted.

yeah i came back to this game too hopeing PVP became a thing since the feast update but i stil cant find any matches , exept for shatter since its new it has some matches somtimes but still not enough , i think the problem for beginers in the feast is that they have no rank and the only people playing it are the people who have already ranked up and tier up so thats why you dont find any matches ( 0 so far for me) , so im hopeing with the next season we will get more chances to find matches since everybody resets.

its not fun in this game. There no fun strategy involved. Not a fan of MMO PVP, but guild wars 2 pvp got it right with the world vs world thing. Taking over castles/supply routes was fun.

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Originally Posted by R3ap3r

yeah i came back to this game too hopeing PVP became a thing since the feast update but i stil cant find any matches , exept for shatter since its new it has some matches somtimes but still not enough , i think the problem for beginers in the feast is that they have no rank and the only people playing it are the people who have already ranked up and tier up so thats why you dont find any matches ( 0 so far for me) , so im hopeing with the next season we will get more chances to find matches since everybody resets.

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I'm silver rank, and I now wait for almost 4 hours to play 4 on 4 I'm almost to a point that I'm giving up on feast till next season.

for the feast i think toxicity, be able to sit on the point kill it, also the community is small.
and lack reward to compensate for someone not reaching the top 100, if you don't seem to be able to reach it why you participate exept get your toxicity drugs XD.
for the front , GC restriction is annoying with our small community.
long queue can't help the community to grow up.
Queing 1 hours to play few minutes is not for everyone exept if you realy like the pvp so much.

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

Queing 1 hours to play few minutes is not for everyone exept if you realy like the pvp so much.

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It's this so much for me. I used to be afraid of PvP, now I really enjoy it.

But queues are so long, for such brief payoff, and require such a total commitment to sitting around in PvP queue — that I often think about it, and then just don't bother.

It's not lack of interest in PvP, instead I'm just trying to do something more reliable with my playtime.

The other thing I'll stress is, how obscure getting into PvP was for me as a new player:

• Lack of awareness. Playing 6+ months, I never even knew Frontlines existed (and barely understood what Wolves Den was). This only changed when someone on the forums directly informed me that Frontlines existed, at which point I had to go look at Wikis to figure out how to access the content. I believe that limited awareness and convoluted access requirements also shrinks the available PvP player pool.
• Frontlines is locked behind the quest to unlock Wolves' Den. This is counter-intuitive to players from other games, because usually casual battleground PvP comes early, and way before deathmatch arenas. I avoided doing the Wolves' Den quest for months because I did not enjoy my Arena experiences in other games, and thus never became aware of the Frontlines quest (which I would have done sooner, since I've had positive experiences in the past with Battleground PvP).
• Requires level cap. Dungeons are introduced early and often, but PvP is basically locked to L60. So new players that might stay for PvP never reach it (and may leave early as a result), and getting dumped into L60 PvP abruptly is a harsh experience compared to having an early-game Sastasha-level PvP mode with low pressure, smaller ability sets and simpler objectives. (Arena Deathmatch doesn't accomplish this, because it's too intimidating to not be able to get lost in the crowd and follow others' lead the way a Battleground allows).
• Lack of direction and tutorial about the odd PvP rulesets and features. I had to use Wikis and Forum questions to understand what AP was, how Ranks work, how switching GC works, how PvP Actions work, how PvP upgrades work, where my PvP abilities apply and don't apply, how PvP XP works, specific class rules and changes that only apply in PvP ... it was not an intuitive experience at all.

I think part of improving PvP participation is beginning from the ground up and making PvP a much more inviting experience to Sprouts, Free Trials, and just new players in general.

Little to no reward.

They should add new set of gears and weapons with glowing effect in EVERY patch update. And make sure they look good, unlike the latest sets we got.

I feel like there is nothing competitive in this game pvp. Always get bored in week or two after new pvp mode. Have also not tried feast because i had some break from the game.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Have also not tried feast because i had some break from the game.

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What is the point of claiming the game has nothing competitive in PVP when you just admitted you have not participated in the only PVP mode the game has with any semblance of competition lol? Feast is far from perfect but at least play all modes before making blanket statements >.> Otherwise what's the point of the post?

that sucks

[QUOTE=kensatsu;3735937]for the feast i think toxicity, be able to sit on the point kill it, also the community is small.
and lack reward to compensate for someone not reaching the top 100, if you don't seem to be able to reach it why you participate exept get your toxicity drugs XD.
for the front , GC restriction is annoying with our small community.
long queue can't help the community to grow up.
Queing 1 hours to play few minutes is not for everyone exept if you realy like the pvp so much.[/QUO

the only reason why the Qs are so long is because people dont play, if they played the Qs would be shorter .

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Originally Posted by KfLeX

I'm silver rank, and I now wait for almost 4 hours to play 4 on 4 I'm almost to a point that I'm giving up on feast till next season.

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when is the next season? i know it says 3.35 but any idea when that is? next patch?

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Originally Posted by R3ap3r

when is the next season? i know it says 3.35 but any idea when that is? next patch?

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If we go by day amount since it started then around July 14th

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

What is the point of claiming the game has nothing competitive in PVP when you just admitted you have not participated in the only PVP mode the game has with any semblance of competition lol? Feast is far from perfect but at least play all modes before making blanket statements >.> Otherwise what's the point of the post?

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Isnt feast just another version of wolves den? I have played over 2000 matches of wolves den.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Isnt feast just another version of wolves den? I have played over 2000 matches of wolves den.

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Wolves den is competitive if you havent realised this after 2k matches lol

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Originally Posted by TiaHariberux3

Wolves den is competitive if you havent realised this after 2k matches lol

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But problem is those modes die in weeks and not have enough players.

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Originally Posted by Sunako

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No feast wasn't ready for a season to start in the first place. But they rushed to start s1 without making sure the system was good enough and balanced enough. The current system discourages playing after ranking. The severe rating drop after reaching gold for a single loss doesn't help either and there's no incentive to keep the lower ranks playing either. If top 100 wont play and low ranks have no incentive especially this late in the season then of course the queue is going to die. The mode has potential but with how stressful its been for some players any new content was going to kill it.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Lack of direction and tutorial about the odd PvP rulesets and features. I had to use Wikis and Forum questions to understand what AP was, how Ranks work, how switching GC works, how PvP Actions work, how PvP upgrades work, where my PvP abilities apply and don't apply, how PvP XP works, specific class rules and changes that only apply in PvP ... it was not an intuitive experience at all.

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Can you elaborate more on this? I'm ironing out the kinks in some guides, but am not entirely sure I have everything covered. I'm new enough to remember when I didn't even know what an AST was, but any insight into what's been tripping people up helps.

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Originally Posted by FunkYeahDragons

Can you elaborate more on this? I'm ironing out the kinks in some guides, but am not entirely sure I have everything covered. I'm new enough to remember when I didn't even know what an AST was, but any insight into what's been tripping people up helps.

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I think the main issue is there's nothing in game that helps. Most people in games don't visit forums so they'd know nothing about accessing the large amount of info needed before even going into pvp

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I think the main issue is there's nothing in game that helps. Most people in games don't visit forums so they'd know nothing about accessing the large amount of info needed before even going into pvp

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This is an issue and something that could be remedied on SE's end, but I think the players most likely to stay are those who are reading the forums, Reddit, etc. The player who founded my old Cactuar LS with me I met on PVPReborn when he'd only done 8v8s, and he's the only one who stayed throughout season one to play on his own (silver WHM, iirc). Those I recruited in-game eventually quit due to frustration, disinterest, leaving FFXIV, etc, or never played by themselves or outside of 8v8. I mostly want to help those who actually want to get into PVP and learn how things work.

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Originally Posted by Cynric

I think the main issue is there's nothing in game that helps. Most people in games don't visit forums so they'd know nothing about accessing the large amount of info needed before even going into pvp

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That's kind of it, PvE was such a gradual introduction from stabbing Ladybugs in Central Shroud up to Sastasha and then L50 dungeons and trials that the increasing complexity felt natural.

PvP just dumped me into it at L60 with such a large amount of new abilities and rules (many of which aren't transparent) that I basically had to stop playing and go ask for help on forums and look up Wikis just to feel like I had a clue how to do anything useful for my teammates.

Almost everyone has been very patient with me, but I felt bad (and continue to feel bad) dragging players away from actually playing to have to explain PvP to me in the middle of matches. And that's even with all the self-investigation I tried to do (probably most players wouldn't go to that extent).

Most worlds introduce PvP around the same time as the first dungeons. FFXIV needs a PvP equivalent of Sastasha, to help make the learning curve much more gradual, much less intimidating, and much less of a burden on vets to try to crash-course every curious newbie.

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Originally Posted by FunkYeahDragons

This is an issue and something that could be remedied on SE's end, but I think the players most likely to stay are those who are reading the forums, Reddit, etc.

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This is good for helping the core community stay healthy and fit. Tangentially though, I think what FFXIV needs first (at least NA) is quantity rather than quality — changes focused on just getting more of the population to PvP regularly, so that queues stop freezing over and in turn discouraging a wider participant base from forming.

One thing I hate about PvP in this game is it's imbalanced as hell.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

One thing I hate about PvP in this game is it's imbalanced as hell.

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What exactly do you find imbalanced

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Originally Posted by Evangela

One thing I hate about PvP in this game is it's imbalanced as hell.

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Oddly enough, I'd argue that job balance was one thing they actually did right.

The balance in Feast 4v4 is actually much better than other MMOs when they first released similar arena style PvP modes.

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Originally Posted by FunkYeahDragons

Can you elaborate more on this? I'm ironing out the kinks in some guides, but am not entirely sure I have everything covered. I'm new enough to remember when I didn't even know what an AST was, but any insight into what's been tripping people up helps.

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Sorry for missing this question earlier. As for the answer, it's hard to remember everything, since it's been a while since I was truly deer-in-headlights new.

But some stuff that immediately springs to mind as both very opaque and very unintuitive (coming from PvE), while also being very important:

• BRD and MCH do more damage the closer they are to a victim. (?)
• Diminishing Returns on CC, how it triggers, and how long it takes to reset.
• LBs aren't LBs, and they aren't shared, and function differently.
• Healers don't DPS. (!)

Defense:

• Defense and Magic Defense mean nothing and do nothing, damage taken is based only on Role/Job.
• Foresight and Fey Covenant do nothing.
• Protect does nothing.

Dispels:

• MNK can spam-dispel all of your buffs, including extremely-important rotational stuff like Berserk, absorbs like Stoneskin and Crit Galvanize, even defensive CDs (including Attunement and Hallowed Ground, if the MNK is lucky).
• PLD and SMN can also do this, but on super-long CDs so it's not as important.
• So Protect, Foresight, and Fey Covenant are actually useful after all (!) as a junk buff to try to save your real buffs.

Probably more I'm forgetting. It was a lot to suddenly crash-course because it was so different than all the rules in PvE.

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Originally Posted by KfLeX

I'm silver rank, and I now wait for almost 4 hours to play 4 on 4 I'm almost to a point that I'm giving up on feast till next season.

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I feel this so hard. And I'm just starting.

There is no way to climb anymore in standings in Feast, at least not in the NA data centers. The top 100 have been static for over 2 weeks now. You may as well just wait for next season. Try to get your games in at the start of the season since this situation will end up repeating itself once people hit 1100 points and retire again till the end of the season to maintain standing. I didn't originally like the idea of rank decay since there are days where I just do not have time to pvp during the week but the way this is turning out it seems almost mandatory to have that instituted.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

There is no way to climb anymore in standings in Feast, at least not in the NA data centers. The top 100 have been static for over 2 weeks now. You may as well just wait for next season. Try to get your games in at the start of the season since this situation will end up repeating itself once people hit 1100 points and retire again till the end of the season to maintain standing. I didn't originally like the idea of rank decay since there are days where I just do not have time to pvp during the week but the way this is turning out it seems almost mandatory to have that instituted.

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Pretty much 100% mandatory if the rewards change. If they do not you may see more people inclined to not care about their placing in the first place. If they offer the same rewards there is a very high chance about 100 per data center have just retired

JP data centers PvP like a boss. Super active and fun. (prime time is condensed since they only have one timezone)